Agent (may contain spoilers)

[Matt123]

There is some interesting stuff in this novel and we need a place to initially explore the various ideas without spoiling it for those that have yet to purchase the novel.

I enjoyed it. It is perhaps the first novel I have read in a while and well worth the late nights. I suspect it may not win book prizes, but it read well and as a Traveller enthusiast I am more than happy with it. The finish was very open ended.

It tied together nicely a couple of OTU historical arcs and has left several others open. It also provides the specifics for why a number of OTU worlds are red zoned and details nicely some of the more obscure risks to the survival of humanity. Off the top of my head, it details at least one natural disaster coming our way and several versions of what might be described at a meta level as 'infestations' (of course humanity could be described as an infestation as well, but we like this one).

Like any good addition to a story, it answered a few story arcs and left many more to be explored.

 

[mike wightman]

I received the email saying I could download it from drivethru a few hours ago.

Wow - just wow.

I loved it.

When is the sequel?

Makers are a real thing.

 

[mike wightman]

As to discussing it - yes we need a subforum just for that...

 

[whartung]

As to discussing it - yes we need a subforum just for that...

If Agent is T5 based, why not just start threads there, maybe stick [Agent] in the title.

 

[Matt123]

If Agent is T5 based, why not just start threads there, maybe stick [Agent] in the title.

While perhaps using T5 stuff, Agent is applicable across the entire OTU from CT on. I doubt, for example, CT gamers can, or want to ignore it.

Having said that, I'm not yet sure what I think about wafer tech. On the face of it there are some wide ranging implications. For example do you need high end experience in anything when you can just hire low paid humans and rotate the personality through them. Does this fundamentally change the human experience? The Zhodani exchange free will for happiness and purpose. Does the Imperium exchange purpose and skill for mediocrity and opportunities to get ahead by voluntarily acting as a mindless host. Hmmm, does it need to be voluntary? Won't Imperial leadership eventually be supplanted by 'entities' or ghosts with centuries of experience and that never die. Lets face it, finding 12 fresh hosts a year is not a hardship for any medium to large size entity.

I'm sure this will have been thought through, but not in a non-T5 forum.

 

[mike wightman]

I'm fascinated by the reasons for the scrubbings. The one that sprung out and hit me the most was the AI that evolved and started taking over a planet...

it showed the Imperial prejudice against smart machines right there.

Then there were the robots from who knows where...

 

[aramis]

If Agent is T5 based, why not just start threads there, maybe stick [Agent] in the title.

Because it's not T5, but Marc's personal view of the OTU, not constrained by the rules.

Or, that's why I made it its own "other version of traveller" subforum.

 

[Reban]

When is the sequel?

If you noticed the line "There were the standard five sets, three of each: Negotiator, Advisor, Warlord, Admiral, and Decider", then you might get the idea that there are four possible sequels or books in the "Agent" series.

On the other hand it took Marc forty odd years to write this one :devil:

 

[Quint]

I'm fascinated by the reasons for the scrubbings. The one that sprung out and hit me the most was the Ai that evolved and started taking over a planet...

it showed the Imperial prejudice against smart machines right there.

Then there were the robots from who knows where...

Not to mention something seriously different from the "official" TL progression...

D.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I still have not received the link for my copy...

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[mike wightman]

Not to mention something seriously different from the "official" TL progression...

D.

This thread may contain spoilers - so say what you have spotted

What this little vignette tells me is that TL12+computer networks can achieve full sentience, but that measures are usually put in place to stop such breakouts since they are invariably unstable. Deliberate engineering of stable artificial sentience is still TL16/17 (depends on the TL scale you use) but it can happen unintentionally at lower points on the TL scale.

 

[Matt123]

The self replicating robots were interesting, high tech but likely from absorbing knowledge from previous encounters. This spawning (correct word?) had not discovered jump drives, but others may have. Would human adventurers or Vargr stand off and maintain an airgap? Or would they try to obtain artefacts...

One possible give away that you might be looking at a self-replicating robot artefact is the layering construction process described, similar to 3d printers. This may leave obvious layering marks in the artefact.

 

[Quint]

This thread may contain spoilers - so say what you have spotted

What this little vignette tells me is that TL12+computer networks can achieve full sentience, but that measures are usually put in place to stop such breakouts since they are invariably unstable. Deliberate engineering of stable artificial sentience is still TL16/17 (depends on the TL scale you use) but it can happen unintentionally at lower points on the TL scale.

Much the same, the TL~12 Rogue AI is the most obvious non-Canon TL issue. I had already come up with a similar "explain-away" as you did - though given that I tend to prefer AI's at lower tech levels I'm not sure I'd bother. The other might simply explaining via scale - you can't build AI in human sized units until ~TL16 - which leads to the other somewhat glaring examples...

The not just pseudo-biological robots but the incredibly convincing pseudobiological robots. These seem far more advanced that AB-101...

The universe seems to have lots more TL16+ societies out there than just Daryen and Sabm... (however you spell it). Now, given the MT can get you a planet up to 20 (not sure about T5, never bothered to figure it out) this isn't exactly a surprise, but it still seems at strong odds with the Known Space as presented in the game (vs the book).

D.

 

[Cryton]

Keep in mind guys, in T5 (Mr Millers "Cannon" rule-set) you can have things that are listed at higher TLs at MUCH earlier TLs as prototypes.

That said, there is a LOT more flexibility in the TL progression chart than you might think...

~Cryton

 

[Quint]

Keep in mind guys, in T5 (Mr Millers "Cannon" rule-set) you can have things that are listed at higher TLs at MUCH earlier TLs as prototypes.

That said, there is a LOT more flexibility in the TL progression chart than you might think...

~Cryton

*wince* "Canon" not "Cannon" unless I'm not seeing the joke...

Absolutely, I'm not. But they are also bigger, bulkier, and (implied) not quite as good or as effective.

Re-read the but with the robots, those really, really don't sound like experimental or prototype robots. Especially since they're also running one heck of a program or are also AI.

Personally I like this vision of Known Space that has lots more of "Here There Be Monsters..." at the edges of the maps. For the rogue AI it could even be a Gibsonesque alien transmission that spawned it I suppose.

I think for me it is the lack of surprise that Agent Bland has with each of these that really suggests that such are not exactly uncommon (though arguably rare). They are certainly common enough that the Emperor has no problem with wiping out planetary populations on a semi-regular basis to handle them. Heck, and these are just the ones that the Decider gets to handle - we have no idea what sorts of things the other Agents have handled.

It's a universe that is so currentlydangerous that creating the Agents, with their Imperial Warrants, was deemed a viable and useful method of handling things.

Not exactly the vision I have, well, ever gotten from reading Traveller materials. This actually brings MgT's "vision" much closer to MM's that it originally seemed. "Lost Secrets of the Second Imperium" might not be so far off after all...

D.

 

[ovka]

I still have not received the link for my copy...

If you haven't received it, you might want to email Marc directly.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

 

[lostscout5]

Just finished reading my copy. I liked it. Damn good for a first novel.Well done to mark ! A lot of good ideas in the book. Plus a good start for the black fleet stuff.

 

[mike wightman]

Keep in mind guys, in T5 (Mr Millers "Cannon" rule-set) you can have things that are listed at higher TLs at MUCH earlier TLs as prototypes.

And this is the one rule from T5 I will never adopt because that is not the case in the real world.
A better version of this rule is to limit prototype and experimental stuff to one TL, providing certain minimum TL has been achieved for that particular device.

Talking of TLs in the book, the Imperium appears to have military tech a lot sooner than canonical history - jump 6 ships nearly two hundred years prior to achieving TL15

That said, there is a LOT more flexibility in the TL progression chart than you might think...

~Cryton

Definitely so if you ignore it or bend it or have special cases or...

 

[mike wightman]

Re-read the but with the robots, those really, really don't sound like experimental or prototype robots. Especially since they're also running one heck of a program or are also AI.

The scary bit is that they can mimic humans :devil:

Personally I like this vision of Known Space that has lots more of "Here There Be Monsters..." at the edges of the maps.

Agree

This actually brings MgT's "vision" much closer to MM's that it originally seemed. "Lost Secrets of the Second Imperium" might not be so far off after all...

D.

There is one particular reference which I will find that made me think exactly the same thing...

 

[aramis]

*wince* "Canon" not "Cannon" unless I'm not seeing the joke...

You spotted but didn't trust your recognition of the joke. (Cryton mentioned this joke to me when we were talking earlier...)

the joke is T5 is both canon (as in official), and a weapon (cannon) against other editions.