GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Less a dress rehearsal, and more of a dubious precedent. "The fans loved the 5FW, so we want to go bigger!"
Agent (may contain spoilers)
- Thread starter Matt123
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Less a dress rehearsal, and more of a dubious precedent. "The fans loved the 5FW, so we want to go bigger!"
Except that 2 is false in both cases. Assassinate Norris, and the 5FW goes VERY different. Assassinate Santanocheev, and Norris no longer has the direct obligation to take over prosecution of the war.
In the case of the Rebellion, assassinations of Dulinor, Strephon (the real one), Norris, and/or Lucan can be done by PC's. Lucan, it's a suicide run and practically requires a pair of psionicists - one who's a noble and telepath, making his approach, and another who is a teleporter with a big gun and Special Drug.
I've had players assassinate Lucan in play.
Altered Worlds
Hey nitpickers,
What worlds were altered by the events in AOTI and are not captured in their new state except by unbelievable contortions on TravellerMap ?
For example, Zaru 0432 Lutyen (nee Trileen) seems correct.
Ch 1: Core 0707 Maaruur B684987-9 Hi In Sa Tu - the new world is a total mismatch. TM has E692110–7 He Lo - which makes sense as a secondary world in the system elevated to mainworld, but with the name retained?
Ch 24: Zaru 0917 Deyis II E874000-0 Ba Da Re - this seems correct, but TM has (Kebkh) indicating a homeworld. Perhaps it needs the 'Di' code ?
Ch 12: Forn 2404 Kulabisha B68799A-9 Ga Hi - but should have been scoured of all life. TM has E687000–0 which is fine. It mechanically rates Ga which is borderline plausible - the atmosphere has cooled off - but (as noted elsewhere in one of these threads) its stars may need tweaking.
Any others?
Hey nitpickers,
What worlds were altered by the events in AOTI and are not captured in their new state except by unbelievable contortions on TravellerMap ?
For example, Zaru 0432 Lutyen (nee Trileen) seems correct.
Ch 1: Core 0707 Maaruur B684987-9 Hi In Sa Tu - the new world is a total mismatch. TM has E692110–7 He Lo - which makes sense as a secondary world in the system elevated to mainworld, but with the name retained?
Ch 24: Zaru 0917 Deyis II E874000-0 Ba Da Re - this seems correct, but TM has (Kebkh) indicating a homeworld. Perhaps it needs the 'Di' code ?
Ch 12: Forn 2404 Kulabisha B68799A-9 Ga Hi - but should have been scoured of all life. TM has E687000–0 which is fine. It mechanically rates Ga which is borderline plausible - the atmosphere has cooled off - but (as noted elsewhere in one of these threads) its stars may need tweaking.
Any others?
Arcanum/Deneb 2126 is okay. It was the world "bobbled" in 402 and the Red Zone from then is still in place at Traveller Map. (IIRC, MgT's Deneb sourcebook may now need a retcon.)
Daruka/Empty 2230 may be a problem. It had a "NILs Gone Nuts" plague in 410 and was Red Zoned. At Traveller Map, there's no Red or Amber Zone, no mention of the NILs, and the UWP hasn't changed one whit across the centuries.
Kutubba/Verge 3202 is okay. It had the undersea vulcanism event leading to climate change in 460 and was Amber Zoned. Traveller Map has it behind a Red Zone, the atmo and hydro spheres changed, population increased, and TL dropped.
Deyis II/Zaru 0917 is a problem despite the Traveller Map UWP being okay. It was scrubbed in 501 because of the fatal "happiness" parasite, but it's also the location of an MT adventure and a NIL.
Kulabisah/Fornast 2404 maybe a problem. It had a nova in 502, was partially evacuated, and had an Amber Zone imposed. At Traveller Map, it has no population and no travel restrictions, but shouldn't the star and/or companion have changed?
Sakaliin/Reft 3029 is most likely okay. It had a rogue AI in 530, was EMP'd, and had a "5 generation" watch put in place. At Traveller Map, the population dropped drastically while the TL went up one tick.
I agree that Trileen/Lutyen is okay. Trileen was scrubbed in 664 due a meme plague while previously barren world in the system was named Lutyen and made the mainworld.
Arcanum, Kutubba, Sakaliin, and Trileen/Lutyen are okay.
Daruka, Deyis II, and Kulabisah all have varying problems.
Daruka/Empty 2230 may be a problem. It had a "NILs Gone Nuts" plague in 410 and was Red Zoned. At Traveller Map, there's no Red or Amber Zone, no mention of the NILs, and the UWP hasn't changed one whit across the centuries.
Kutubba/Verge 3202 is okay. It had the undersea vulcanism event leading to climate change in 460 and was Amber Zoned. Traveller Map has it behind a Red Zone, the atmo and hydro spheres changed, population increased, and TL dropped.
Deyis II/Zaru 0917 is a problem despite the Traveller Map UWP being okay. It was scrubbed in 501 because of the fatal "happiness" parasite, but it's also the location of an MT adventure and a NIL.
Kulabisah/Fornast 2404 maybe a problem. It had a nova in 502, was partially evacuated, and had an Amber Zone imposed. At Traveller Map, it has no population and no travel restrictions, but shouldn't the star and/or companion have changed?
Sakaliin/Reft 3029 is most likely okay. It had a rogue AI in 530, was EMP'd, and had a "5 generation" watch put in place. At Traveller Map, the population dropped drastically while the TL went up one tick.
I agree that Trileen/Lutyen is okay. Trileen was scrubbed in 664 due a meme plague while previously barren world in the system was named Lutyen and made the mainworld.
Arcanum, Kutubba, Sakaliin, and Trileen/Lutyen are okay.
Daruka, Deyis II, and Kulabisah all have varying problems.
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Thanks, Whipsnade!
Hrm... There's "a Plexxan noble and a significant Plexxan population"; it's not clear that it's the Plexxan homeworld. We also don't learn the outcome, but relatively speaking it seems to be easily contained and the (majority?) Vilani population is apparently not impacted. So agreed with "may be a problem".
See http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35546 - a nova may not be a permanent alteration of the stars. It probably does need a stellar tweak, though.
Hrm... There's "a Plexxan noble and a significant Plexxan population"; it's not clear that it's the Plexxan homeworld. We also don't learn the outcome, but relatively speaking it seems to be easily contained and the (majority?) Vilani population is apparently not impacted. So agreed with "may be a problem".
See http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35546 - a nova may not be a permanent alteration of the stars. It probably does need a stellar tweak, though.
No problem. It was a slow night and I had the book on hand to look at some of the various destinations to which Bland shipped his "hosts" from Reference.
Hmmm... after reading that I'm leaning towards it not being a problem at all. Especially seeing as Daruka may not be the Plexxan homeworld. Still, there's no change at all between 410 and TM's default Classic Era date. (TM's date is 1105-ish, right?)
By the way, I'm really impressed by the fact that you've got Beauniture on TM!
I thought it might, but I've no idea about what kind of tweak is needed.
While Deyis II is the biggest headache in AotI, it's not a headache for TM.
There's a "hiccup" of sorts when the scrubbing takes place. Bland later visits the system again, even setting up the astrofence project to do so. He recovers the Niikiik Luur archive there along with the genetic creche and later meets one of the few remaining Kebkh on Reference. It's obviously an important part of AotI.
In MT, on the other hand, the adventure which came with the GM's Screen has Deyis II with a lush biosphere complete with parrot dragons and a previously unsuspected native sophont species.
Given the thorough 501 scrubbing and the conditions described Bland's later 610 visit, I can't see how the planet could have recovered or been "repaired" by the Rebellion era.
I suspect the MT adventure will be retconned in some fashion.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I'd blame the (relatively nearby) Suerrat. Buncha sneaky closet terraformers.
Marc asks, I deliver.
Ah, yes. So... they are not, in fact, extinct, hence no need for a Di code.
If it was a nova, then it ought to have a close orbiting white dwarf companion in the system for the stellar material to accrete onto.
IIRC, the Kebkh on Deyis II were in origin the species that DGP intended to be the larval/immature form of their "Primordials", which of course never saw print. They are tenuously related to certain visions seen in the city in Knightfall I believe.
TM lists the stars as M3V - M8V. That would work, correct?
I'm wondering about the system's post-nova contents. The physical portion of Kulabisha's UWP is completely unchanged. TM has the system also containing 2 other worlds, 2 gas giants, and 2 belts. Has that changed? Should that have changed?
I realize it's was "only" a nova, but shouldn't Kulabisha's atmosphere, and thus the hydrosphere, have changed somewhat? How would a nova effect the belts and giants too?
ISTR something along those lines too. I'll have to pull out both products to check. It may be that the Kebkh were originally intended to be "orphaned" Primordials and then "dialed back" somehow. II also RC, Deyis II is somehow "featured" on the cover of one of the two early DGP products that became WBH.
And there's also the fact that, as explicitly stated in Knightfall, Deyis II is the location of one of the portals leading to the Primordial City's pocket universe.
AotI has Deyis II a First Imperium settled planet scrubbed into hellworld as late as 610.
MT has Deyis II a lush, unpopulated, backwater during the Rebellion.
AotI has the Kebkh known to the Imperium, integrated enough to use Imperial technology, and widespread enough for some of them to be working on Reference as late as 622.
MT has the paleolithic Kebkh completely unknown and unsuspected during the Rebellion.
As important as Deyis II seems to be in AtoI, I suspect Mr. Miller will be retconning that sole MT adventure rather than force how ever many miracles are needed to make the two accounts jibe.
We'd need a white dwarf in there; in T5SS parlance e.g. M3V D M8V.
Quick googling turns up: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1944AJ.....51...69M - McLaughlin, Dean B. "The effects of a nova upon a nearby planet"
So... yeah. We could fiddle with things and say that it's the far companion star that novas (i.e. make it M3V M8V D); the text has "That star out there..." I'll let someone else do the math but at a distance of hundreds of AU that's going to boil the atmosphere and the oceans but not the crust, which could allow for a recovery. Would it cool down enough in 500 years enough to merit that UWP?
Even if we keep it the primary going nova, the rest of the system should be fine at the course level we know about - a little cooked, and the ice moons probably a lot smaller, but still there.
Kulabisha
The code for White (Degenerate) Dwarf is "D". M3 V and M8 V are both Main Sequence "Red" Dwarfs (though the M8 V could possibly be a Brown Dwarf).
So either the M3 V or M8 V should be changed to the "D" code, or an additional star with the "D" code should be entered and delineated as a close companion to one of the two stars so that an accretion stream can flow onto the Degenerate Dwarf surface and create a brief surface thermonuclear flare-up. The fact that it is a Nova means that the Degenerate Dwarf still exists; had it detonated the entire star, it would have been a Type I Supernova.
The code for White (Degenerate) Dwarf is "D". M3 V and M8 V are both Main Sequence "Red" Dwarfs (though the M8 V could possibly be a Brown Dwarf).
So either the M3 V or M8 V should be changed to the "D" code, or an additional star with the "D" code should be entered and delineated as a close companion to one of the two stars so that an accretion stream can flow onto the Degenerate Dwarf surface and create a brief surface thermonuclear flare-up. The fact that it is a Nova means that the Degenerate Dwarf still exists; had it detonated the entire star, it would have been a Type I Supernova.
Probably should be altered, but I do not know by how much, or whether 600 years of terraforming might have intervened.
Thanks. My Google-Fu has been weak lately.
That could work. Bad/close enough to kill the people, not bad/close enough to kill the planet.
That's the 64 CrImp question.
I can't see how the atmo and hydro spheres wouldn't be changed.Heat the atmosphere, it expands, and the nova's increased "solar wind" should "strip" more of it away? Right? Wrong? Maybe? I dunno.
Heat the oceans, more water vapor in the air, larger greenhouse effect, atmosphere expands even more, and the nova's increased "solar wind" strips even more air and water away? Right? Wrong? Maybe? I dunno.
Sure, 300 degC means the mountains, continents, coastlines, and continental shelves didn't melt., but the atmosphere and sea levels should have changed.
Coarse level. That's the key. Is the mainworld's UWP too coarse to show the effects I'm guessing may have occurred?
The rest of the system will have indications if you know where to look. Fewer volatiles in the belts, Kuipers, and Oort. Gas giants' atmo composition tweaked. The surfaces of ice moons and other bodies reworked, i.e. smaller craters and other features melted "smooth".
It's times like this I wish EDG still visited here.
I've shipped questions about Maaruur and Kulabisha off to Marc.
Thanks for the help, everyone!
Thanks for the help, everyone!
And the word is:
- Mararuur was intentionally a promoted secondary world. No change needed.
- Kulabisha gains a white dwarf (code D) to allow the system to support a nova. That's been applied to TM.
Ullarsskald1957
SOC-12
Hey all;
Fascinating look for a casual player at the depth the Traveller Universe actually contains, and the educated thinking that goes into the analysis. Thank you all.
I got the book, first in e-form then in paperback. Read it the night I received it all the way through. Waited for the hard copy to re-read it, which I have done 4 times.
Just from a reader's stand point, I like the way Marc writes and lays out the story. Each chapter stands alone, but is also part of a whole. The last time I re-read it, one chapter at a time over the course of a week or so.
The story bears up, revealing a slightly different insight each time.
I must admit, that I looked at the novel as an alternate version, very closely paralleling the know universe, but with a mildly divergent quantum reality.
Fascinating look for a casual player at the depth the Traveller Universe actually contains, and the educated thinking that goes into the analysis. Thank you all.
I got the book, first in e-form then in paperback. Read it the night I received it all the way through. Waited for the hard copy to re-read it, which I have done 4 times.
Just from a reader's stand point, I like the way Marc writes and lays out the story. Each chapter stands alone, but is also part of a whole. The last time I re-read it, one chapter at a time over the course of a week or so.
The story bears up, revealing a slightly different insight each time.
I must admit, that I looked at the novel as an alternate version, very closely paralleling the know universe, but with a mildly divergent quantum reality.
David Johansen
SOC-12
Well, I finally got my hands on it and read it and it was good. I'll probably need to read it again to fully grasp some of the complexities. Well done Marc. I expect you'll never see this but well done. It really felt like Traveller all the way through. I'm not sure how well it would work for someone who can't read UWPS at a glance, but, never the less, well done.
