I am 2/3rds reading and am fascinated about the underpinings of the Imperium. All or Nothing here.
GT Universe Only: Agent of the Imperium - Canon in the Lorenverse or Not
- Thread starter Nathan Brazil
- Start date
Assuming:
(1) Agent is canonical in the OTU; and
(2) the Lorenverse diverges only notably in 1116, and divergence prior to that point is the minimum necessary to lead to the main divergence
... then given the events in Agent I can't see how there is any room for it to not be canonical in the Lorenverse. Without even considering the content of the book, just the setting, i.e. centuries prior to 1116, the above imply it would be canonical by default.
Considering the content of the book, there are Notable Events that occur that are common to the history of both the OTU and Lorenverse which are given explanations in Agent. If canonical for the OTU (#1) but not Lorenverse, those Notable Events would require an alternate explanation, which violates #2.
Again, those are assumptions. If either of those is dismissed then the argument falls.
(1) Agent is canonical in the OTU; and
(2) the Lorenverse diverges only notably in 1116, and divergence prior to that point is the minimum necessary to lead to the main divergence
... then given the events in Agent I can't see how there is any room for it to not be canonical in the Lorenverse. Without even considering the content of the book, just the setting, i.e. centuries prior to 1116, the above imply it would be canonical by default.
Considering the content of the book, there are Notable Events that occur that are common to the history of both the OTU and Lorenverse which are given explanations in Agent. If canonical for the OTU (#1) but not Lorenverse, those Notable Events would require an alternate explanation, which violates #2.
Again, those are assumptions. If either of those is dismissed then the argument falls.
There are events occurring in the main timeframe of the book in the mid 400s, which challenge assumptions I have heard are what "Lorenverse" is about pre- and post- 1116, hence the voting options I have read/not read the book.
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The book spans several centuries, ending in the 730s. Since Marc wrote it, I'm going to assume it's all canon, and all of it is somewhere in the background of the 'Lorenverse'.
Of course, if I use any of it or not in a game I'm involved with is between me, my legal representatives to the Imperium, and the Zhodani Fun Police.
I've given up on canon. Canon is what you make of it. Traveller "canon" is like a bad time travel story with parallel timelines diverging, and merging, in and back again.
With 10 versions of the game to fail to keep track of, canon is as canon does in my book.
If you want Agent as part of YOUR canon, knock yourself out.
With 10 versions of the game to fail to keep track of, canon is as canon does in my book.
If you want Agent as part of YOUR canon, knock yourself out.
Actually, given the requisite lead time, it must diverge notably by late 1115, probably by the end of 1114, because it would take at least 6 months, and more like 9-12, to get the conspiracy in place. Given the time lag for comms, it had to either not happen at all or be called off at least 6-9 months earlier than the target date.
That is one of the issues related to the POD as they say in alternate history circles. The POD must be earlier. However, that is not in the novel.
It is something else that should give people pause unless it is simply butterflied away. Butterflying away things is more wish fulfillment. I rarely like people doing that. The reason I am intentionally being vague is I am hoping someone else sees what I saw in the novel...
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Are you referring to the fact that since Chonadon Bilanidin (Jonathan Bland) has effectively devised a way to keep himself alive and updated via multiple copies of himself in multiple hosts (perhaps using his authority as an Agent to order the creation of a series of clones for himself to inhabit and/or be downloaded into), that he can always be on hand over the centuries to serve the best interests of The Imperium (not necessarily the Emperor)?
That is not the one I am looking at, but ooohh, good one. :coffeesip: It goes far to explain the stability and size of the 3I for such a long period of time, events of 1116 occurring or not.
The only other thing that I recall off the top of my head is that Empress Margaret I in the novel is succeeded by her brother Pedro instead of Paulo . . .
Don't know if that was a typo or an anomaly . . .
Don't know if that was a typo or an anomaly . . .
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Depends on your definition of "notably", I guess. I'm going by TAS News items.
Agreed that POD is at least that early though, ignoring magic causality warping.
Apologies for the tone of my first post. I somehow replied before Nathan had made it a poll (and he reworded a bit too, I think...?). Anyway...
I missed (or have forgotten) what Nathan is obliquely referring to, but I'm intrigued.
I missed (or have forgotten) what Nathan is obliquely referring to, but I'm intrigued.
I took away the, shall we say disruptive, reveal I am looking for.AotI looks canon to me. I'd say it's not dependent on Lorenverse or Rebellion, but could provide additional explanation supporting the Rebellion timeline.
I'd also say that since Marc wrote it, it's canon.
The only question i still have is the J6 courier. Not certain how that would work out.
I'd also say that since Marc wrote it, it's canon.
The only question i still have is the J6 courier. Not certain how that would work out.
Ackehece
SOC-13
Historical Records are notoriously inaccurate and are generally written by the winners...
:CoW:A partisan of Paulo's wrote that history section in the Encyclopedia Imperia Majora, the book is the record of the actual events.
Under T5.09, that could be experimental or prototype or early of a higher tech drive providing 50, 80 or 90 percent efficiency? No matter which combo, it does not come out to Jump 6, but that is just a suggestion for plausibility, not exactness.
Highorbit_drifter
SOC-12
Maybe its a recovered Ancient's drive?
Anyway, of course it is canon for the Lorenverse. It happens "before" the divergence. If the Agent is still around during the post-Classic Traveller period, he will be present in both timelines. That is, unless killed in one or the other - maybe the Virus infects his avatars or something. Actually, that would make a great evil-twin scenario.
And, like already stated, it was written by Marc so therefore; canon.
I was thinking maybe the Agent put Dulinor up to the assassination...
I have read the book, and I personally think that it is canon for *any* universe that breaks off after the time period in the story. It will be the sequels, if any, that affect things. So far it has been snippets of history as seen by someone who was there. It has certainly affected some of how I view interdicted worlds.
My biggest issue with that though is while every interdicted world is by default a red zone, not every red zone is interdicted. I wish there was some indicator of say Navy Interdiction or Scout Interdiction or Quarantine or such like.
My biggest issue with that though is while every interdicted world is by default a red zone, not every red zone is interdicted. I wish there was some indicator of say Navy Interdiction or Scout Interdiction or Quarantine or such like.
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