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General Does someone in the Imperium really have a low SOC?

I think about the TV Show "Jersey Shore". Those people have enough money to rent a yacht with the Kardashians (another gift from the USA to the world) ... but no matter WHOSE designer dress they wear, I cannot imagine them attending a party with the Windsors at one of their castles and blending right in.

THAT to me was the difference between SOC and WEALTH.

A PIMP has wealth without SOC.
A Philadelphia Blue Blood has SOC even wearing just an L.L. Bean sweater, khaki slacks and Dockers on his 15' sailboat in Maine.
 
Being microchipped might be optional for Imperium citizens.

Probably mandatory for all employees, Imperium and megacorporation.
Since there's bigotry against augments in the Nobility, I don't think it would be an implant. Or maybe just for non-Nobles. But being non-augmented could be a fad or trend in society. Similar to the trend of getting a tattoo or not getting one.
 
I don't think microchipping would be so much as a direct augmentation, except if you use it as a remote control, authorizing usage of gadgetry, like your speeder, or opening the door to your apartment.

Biblically, I wonder if the intent was branding and slavery, though the number was supposedly code for Nero.
 
This raises a question, at least as I see it: Nobles, especially high-ranking ones, shouldn't have wafer slots installed. Their value is in their identity, and you absolutely don't want the possibility that they're being puppeted by a personality wafer.
 
So, I don't know how common actual nobles are, but each system entry in travellerrpg.com generally indicates that each star/system has one or more, but rarely more than two or three, nobles. With the number of systems in the Imperium, that's a huge total, but given the speed of travel, I find it unlikely that they travel very far. Or maybe they do? I do totally expect all a subsector's nobles get together a few times a year, though this may involve a few months travel for some, so maybe once a year? That's only something like 30 systems, so not more than 40-50 nobles, and they'd know each other quite well because they were such a select group. Though as I write this, I realize that's 40-50 families of nobles, but that's still pretty manageable. Back in the day before computers and the internet, people managed social groups of friends like that regularly even if they didn't see them for years.

As the attached photo of a RL Navy quarterdeck shows, there'd probably be images of all a subsector's peers in every ship and base, as the military would certainly be expected to recognize a noble (and render appropriate honors, of course). Systems near a subsector border may be expected to recognize the neighboring subsector's border lords also.

1727082592434.jpeg

I imagine the local sector Duke and a handful of sector-level nobles make tours throughout their lifetimes, so they'd be on the Must Recognize list as well, but any other travelling noble visiting a place outside where they were expected to be known should carry something like a letter of introduction from (or be actually presented by) a peer known to both parties. So, if I'm from an interior planet in subsector A, and I want to visit subsector B, I would get with a border peer from A, get introduced to a border lord from the adjacent B, and then go inside subsector B with an intro from the noble from subsector B. This sounds like a good job for a teenaged peer who's got no specific duties that matter who just lazes around the castle.



The introduction of an outside noble to the local noble's court, or any visiting noble, would of course make the Society page of whatever passes for a newspaper in the Third Imperium, so those that concern themselves with the nobility get a look also.
 
The nobles listed for a system on the Wiki and TravellerMap are the Imperial representatives; there will likely be many more nobles, both ceremonial (rank accorded for their duties in the Imperial bureaucracy or the leader(s) of the planetary government) and honour nobles (rank awarded for actions/achievements), and their descendants.
 
The nobles listed for a system on the Wiki and TravellerMap are the Imperial representatives; there will likely be many more nobles, both ceremonial (rank accorded for their duties in the Imperial bureaucracy or the leader(s) of the planetary government) and honour nobles (rank awarded for actions/achievements), and their descendants.
Another way to think of this point is that the nobles listed for systems of the wiki and map are the persons who are on the (LBB S4) Noble career path who have successfully rolled for Position so as to be installed into a posting that makes them the Emperor's representative to that specific world.

This is how you can have an 18 year old character "fresh" out of character generation with Social: A (planetary noble) be "automatically enlisted" into the Noble career for your first term of service. If you roll Position and succeed, you are automatically advanced to Social: B (Knight) as an Imperial Noble representing the Emperor to a world on the map. EVERY Imperial world has a minimum of 1 Knight, and that Knight is titled as the Knight of that specific world.
  • Knight Boughene
  • Knight Efate
  • Knight Kinorb
  • Knight Regina
  • ... etc.
The roll for Position installs them into a posting as an Imperial Noble whose "job" is to be the imperial representative of the Emperor for that world so as to participate in interstellar relations and policy in a "governing" capacity. That way, you have to EARN your posting, rather than it being an automatic "freebie" upon "enlisting" into the Noble career path.

If you get promoted, you "move up the ranks" to being a Baron (Social: C) and may need to be "reshuffled" so as to be posted to a different world (Barons are usually "in post" for Rich worlds). At Social: D, as a Count, you will almost certainly be "reshuffled" again to be posted as the Imperial Noble for an Industrial world ... and so on and so forth.

When you muster out from the Noble career, you effectively "end" your service as the Emperor's representative to the world(s) you were posted to and "retire" into a life of luxury (or Travelling, as the case may be). By mustering out, you are "relieved of your duties" and essentially become a Noble Emeritus, because you still retain your social standing even if you no longer have official duties.



If you enter the Noble career and FAIL to achieve Position (and you have to successfully roll Position BEFORE you become eligible for Promotion) for your entire career as a Noble, it is possible to remain Social: A-C (whatever you rolled during character creation) without being posted to the "top job" as the Imperial Noble for any particular world. You're essentially "one of the staff" members (or if you prefer, simply a courtier) who advises and consults with the Noble posted to that world.

It's the difference between Military Attache vs Military Aide, for those familiar with extended character generation.
WITH Position, you're the Military Attache Imperial Noble posted for a world.
WITHOUT Position, you're a Military Aide courtier/advisor/consultant/assistant/staffer to whoever has the "top job" of being the Imperial Noble in post for a world.



Which means, as the 211th Rule of Acquisition says ... "Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them."

Why so?
Because although there are LOTS of worlds in a sector (and the Imperium as a polity), there are ALWAYS going to be more people with Social: A+ than there are Positions to fill as Imperial Noble at each rank.

Take the Spinward Marches, for example.

There are over 100 worlds that "need" a Knight to be posted to them as an Imperial Noble representing the Emperor to the local (autonomous) world government (since every mainworld gets a Knight, minimum). There can easily be THOUSANDS (if not MILLIONS on high population worlds) of people who have Social: A+ who might be "eligible" for that posting. So there's a tremendous filter process going on ... a "great winnowing" if you will ... between who has the qualifications and who ultimately winds up with the "job" of being put into post as Imperial Nobles.

At the next step up, you have Baron. There's a LOT LESS worlds that have a position for a Baron (Rich and Agricultural worlds) ... so there's ANOTHER filter process/great winnowing going on for who gets to be promoted to become a Baron. Same again for Count, where there are even fewer worlds where a Count can (or needs to) be posted.

All of which combines to create a game of Musical Chairs in which there are a LOT of players, but few chairs to sit on when the music stops ... and as you rise in rank up the hierarchy, there's fewer and fewer chairs in play. This is why the Promotion roll for the Noble career is 12+ (with a +1DM for Intelligence: A+). There are just so FEW opportunities for advancement to higher and higher postings within a sector, that you actually have to "get lucky" in order to succeed in getting promoted as a Noble during your career, before "retiring" and mustering out.

Which means, because there are few opportunities to be had, but plenty of people willing to grasp them ... "Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them."

Nobles in post ACTUALLY have few friends ... because of how they "got" to the position they're in ... and how many rivals they have who are eager to replace them. It's not exactly a "happy life" filled with esprit de corps and a sense of camaraderie like you would expect in the military (or paramilitary) career paths and services. But hey ... that's POLITRICKS for you. :rolleyes:
 
In my games I try to move the SOC away somewhat from titles and money alone. A wealthy trust fund baby who is also a serial killer may still have a low SOC as most people dislike him and do not want to be around him. Mother Teresa clearly lacked her own money and yet spent time in places of power and was greatly respected, I say she had a higher SOC score. What the SOC score means to me is linked to their story, as well as their money or title.

That’s not how feudal cultures (or other caste systems) work. You can be a serial killer, but if you’re a knight, you are, and you have its full privileges. Some Knights in Arthurian literature are true villains, and yet they are knights, or nobles, and treated as such, just to give an example.

Likewise, Pallas, de keeper of accountant for Emperor Claudius, was a freed slave. Despite having the ear of the Emperor and his hight appointment, he was not even a Roman citizen, and so he had low SOC and few rights…

Same happened to Jews in medieval Europe. They had the money, they were the bankers and in most cases they have the ear of the nobles and kings (as most were indebted with them), but they could not own land, as they were seen as too low socially to do so, and had few rights…

Shogun (1980)
"I am the great and important Captain Vasco Rodrigues. I am important, because I make them think I am important! It also helps that they do not speak English, eh Ingles?"

And yet, the lowest Samurai is above him, and he bows to them...

It seems that way because there are few official DMs to any dice rolls for tasks and other things RAW in the rulebooks where SOC comes into play. Once character generation is over (SOC for admission or advancement, etc.) I do not recall many examples. There is also the problem from the perception of players thinking SOC is immutable like the other stats (clearly not) and not of use.

SOC is not immutable, I guess it's quite fluid among "peasants" (for lack of better word). Among nobles, it's quite so, being only able to change by promotion or demotion among the nobles.

If the Imperium wishes to push facial recognition, digital ID, and social credit i would be joining the Ine Givar faster than you can say thought police...
Sure the Imperium does that, and more. After all it’s not a democracy, and ID checking are quite difficult without them. Even if it was a democracy, when given to choose among being microchipped or needing weeks (at best) to verify your identity, what do you think people would choose?

And nobles are the first ones to want to be recognized, so probably the first ones to ask for those microchips.

After all, most current democracies impose an ID, and about facial recognition and being able to monitor… I guess this would have to be discussed in the Pit.
 
IMTU 2 is a robot, you get to do robot career automatically, 3-5 is a clone or chimera, 6-9 regular people, and A+ are named backgrounds from a table:

1727110737000.png

Nonetheless people can have social standing in the 2-5 range, and the negative DM acts as a positive for Streetwise and such skills. Where higher Social really stands out is in Advocate, or Liaison.
 
Going by Regency romances, you don't need to have a title to have a high social level.

Though, having a duke as a grandfather or grand uncle doesn't hurt.

Remember, the debutants need to know if you're married, and what's your annual income.
 
Going by Regency romances, you don't need to have a title to have a high social level.

Though, having a duke as a grandfather or grand uncle doesn't hurt.

Remember, the debutants need to know if you're married, and what's your annual income.
Going by being a Midwesterner it's almost impossible to not to have it play out like the Fancy Lad scene from Cabin Boy, as Letterman is from here too. Pretty much have to read the room though. Soc is a good dump stat fwiw.
 
That’s not how feudal cultures (or other caste systems) work.
I am not saying my way is how Earth's history worked. But if we hardline SOC locked into Earth's history, my experience has been, SOC becomes a dump stat and almost worthless in most games. When I run the game and do so my way, it is not seen as an auto-dump stat at all. People really seem to think about its value.

But of course, I am NOT saying my way is the "right or best way" at all. I respect other folks handling their games differently than mine. In fact, I love when they do, makes for a much more interesting conversation here on the forums. :) (y)
 
I am not saying my way is how Earth's history worked. But if we hardline SOC locked into Earth's history, my experience has been, SOC becomes a dump stat and almost worthless in most games. When I run the game and do so my way, it is not seen as an auto-dump stat at all. People really seem to think about its value.

The value of SOC in the game fully depends (even more than otehr stats) on the kind of adventures you play.

Most published adventures are either merenary or barely legal issues, not the ones the noble class engages on openly, and not the ones you'd look for vounters among the nobles. On them, rank, position on a ship and skill will have more importance than SOC.

If you intend to play a adventure in Capital (or a Duke's court), SOC will have most importance.

After all, IRL, if you work on a tramp freighter, or a mercenary unit, or as troublemaker, few will care if you have blue blood or you come from the worst slums in your city, but if you intend to earn your wadges on diplomacy, being the brother of the Earl of Whoknowswhere, educated in Eaton, will open you many doors and help you in your career.
 
Would someone really have a low SOC in the Imperium?
As said above, it will not hinder you in most adventures, as few of them are centered on the upper crust of teh society. Nonetheless, in many games skills like leadership use SOC as DMs.

ANother ting to take into account is that your Imperial SOC may not be the same as your planetary SOC. You may be a knbight in your planet, but not recognized as such in the Imperium, or you can be an escaped salve in your plaent, and yet be seen as an equal by your Imperial comrades.

And the opposite may also be true. IN a planet with low TL where spacers are revered, you can be seen as a high SOC person by this very fact, your true Imperial SOC being irrelevant. Orteh opposite may also be true, and a planet may ostracise outworlders...

And this can be even more outside the Imperium proper...
 
Interesting way to handle it. A character who ends up with a 4 SOC is a clone. Hum....
Not that it is necessarily bad, and a player could choose to be a regular person, either way, just that those options are open. Another thing to ask is that would a high soc person be hanging at a seedy starport dive? There has to be a backstory there as well.

Clones are like the Azi from Cherryh's Alliance-Union Space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azi_(clone)
 
For the OP from T20.

Soc
0 - No Contact With Civilization
1 - Felon Wanted For Particularly Repulsive Crime
3 - Very Poor Or Criminal
5 - Unskilled Laborer Or Very Poor
7 - Semi-Skilled or Poor

So, starting about 4- Soc is based on a persons bad Financial or Legal standing.
About 4+ to 14- a persons Soc is based on a persons Financial position.
Soc 15 is a person related to a Nobel.
Soc 16+ are people with Nobel Ranks through birth or promotion.

I would like to thank the posters for this thread, lots of good ideas and commentary.

Well, I honestly had a little problem fitting Soc as shown in T20 into any part of Traveller when I started thinking about it, except in broad strokes. Even in the Imperium. But concerning the Low Soc question in the OP...

Slaves, Robots, Homeless, Prisoners, Very Low Income, Criminals, Lower Caste Citizens, Anyone who isn't considered a part of 'US' or 'OUR COMMUNITY', Immigrants, Barbarians, Cyborgs, the Sick & Infirm, New Recruits or Initiates in an Organization, a person Critically Trashed In The Media, High Born on the run who are no longer under the protection of their former status, the list goes on and on.
 
If having a higher social standing, that's recognized by the society you're currently traversing, has the force of law behind it.

In other words, you could stand on the corner of Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone, and only a jury of your peers, with the same social standing or higher, can convict you.

Some being more (un)equal than others.
 
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