Airports and Landing Ground Ideas

[Timerover51]

The following quote comes from FM 20-100, Army Ground Forces Light Aviation, 9 September 1947. The L-4 was the Piper Cub, while the L-5 was the Stinson Sentinel, a bit larger aircraft. Based on Vehicle Maker, both would fall into the Very Light or maybe Light category for aircraft.

A landing strip 200 yards in length on firm terrain without high obstructions at either end will normally accommodate the L-4 type aircraft. A landing strip 300 yards in length will accommodate the L-5 type aircraft under the same conditions. A longer field must be used under certain conditions of terrain, altitude, and prevailing wind. The pilot is responsible for evaluating these conditions.

Now, the above would be based on grass landing strips and no wind conditions, and actually does include clearance over 50 feet, based on my Navy Performance Data. Looking over that data base, just about everything can get off on a 3,000 foot runway except the F-80C Shooting Star needing 3,080 feet of runway and 4,360 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle, and the PB4Y-2 Privateer, the Navy's single-tail version of the B-24 Liberator, which needs 3,170 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle. Those do assume no wind conditions. I do need to get out by WW2 Army Air Force Aircraft Characteristics Chart for AAF planes of World War 2, which would include the B-29, along with some other data sources.

Based on what I have, I would recommend for Very Light and Light airports, allowing for a grass runway of 400 meters, plus an extra 100 meters on each end to clear a 50 foot obstacle.

For a Medium Airport, I would recommend a runway of 1,000 meters of either haed-packed coral or gravel, steel landing mat, or concrete, with an extra 250 meters on each end for clearance.

For facilities, I would recommend approaching it the same way you would a starport, but with very few "A" class where aircraft are built, with most of them being "B" or "C" class, capable of major to minor repair, along with fuel and amenities. With "D" class, like Gizo in the Solomon Islands, you get fuel and not much else. "E" class means you better have enough fuel to get back to civilization.

I will try to get back later today with the larger airports.

 

[aramis]

The Piper L-4 is a piper cub... which has about 1 m³ cargo space, and a load limit of about 500kg, including pilot, passenger, and cargo. It's also just about the shortest field needed for a military aircraft before the helicopter.

The L-5 is the Stinson Sentinel... Which is about the same performance in the air.

Both routinely took off of carriers from fore of the island ... and landing, could be completely at a stop relative to the deck aft of the island.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

The following quote comes from FM 20-100, Army Ground Forces Light Aviation, 9 September 1947. The L-4 was the Piper Cub, while the L-5 was the Stinson Sentinel, a bit larger aircraft. Based on Vehicle Maker, both would fall into the Very Light or maybe Light category for aircraft.



Now, the above would be based on grass landing strips and no wind conditions, and actually does include clearance over 50 feet, based on my Navy Performance Data. Looking over that data base, just about everything can get off on a 3,000 foot runway except the F-80C Shooting Star needing 3,080 feet of runway and 4,360 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle, and the PB4Y-2 Privateer, the Navy's single-tail version of the B-24 Liberator, which needs 3,170 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle. Those do assume no wind conditions. I do need to get out by WW2 Army Air Force Aircraft Characteristics Chart for AAF planes of World War 2, which would include the B-29, along with some other data sources.

Based on what I have, I would recommend for Very Light and Light airports, allowing for a grass runway of 400 meters, plus an extra 100 meters on each end to clear a 50 foot obstacle.

For a Medium Airport, I would recommend a runway of 1,000 meters of either haed-packed coral or gravel, steel landing mat, or concrete, with an extra 250 meters on each end for clearance.

For facilities, I would recommend approaching it the same way you would a starport, but with very few "A" class where aircraft are built, with most of them being "B" or "C" class, capable of major to minor repair, along with fuel and amenities. With "D" class, like Gizo in the Solomon Islands, you get fuel and not much else. "E" class means you better have enough fuel to get back to civilization.

I will try to get back later today with the larger airports.

I believe that T5 has some standards built into the mapping chapter for landing strips and pads.

I know there are definitely mapping symbols for them.

Shalom,
M.

 

[robject]

Happy Landings!

 

[Timerover51]

I believe that T5 has some standards built into the mapping chapter for landing strips and pads.

I know there are definitely mapping symbols for them.

Shalom,
M.

The size of airports and landing grounds is on page 249 in the T5.09 download, under VehicleMaker.

I should add that a large number of aircraft have been adapted to the use of skis for operations on ice and snow, including the C-130 Transport. I also have a report from World War 2 of an amphibian landing on the Greenland ice cap as part of the attempted rescue of the crew of a downed B-17.

 

[Timerover51]

The Piper L-4 is a piper cub... which has about 1 m³ cargo space, and a load limit of about 500kg, including pilot, passenger, and cargo. It's also just about the shortest field needed for a military aircraft before the helicopter.

The L-5 is the Stinson Sentinel... Which is about the same performance in the air.

Both routinely took off of carriers from fore of the island ... and landing, could be completely at a stop relative to the deck aft of the island.

Actually, many of them were delivered to their destinations via LST fitted with a short take off deck. The shortest landing I have record of is that of an English test pilot in a Fieseler Storch, who landed with no ground run on the elevator of a British aircraft carrier that was steaming into the wind with sufficient wind-over-deck that it was slightly above stalling speed. He was showing off a bit.

 

[aramis]

Actually, many of them were delivered to their destinations via LST fitted with a short take off deck. The shortest landing I have record of is that of an English test pilot in a Fieseler Storch, who landed with no ground run on the elevator of a British aircraft carrier that was steaming into the wind with sufficient wind-over-deck that it was slightly above stalling speed. He was showing off a bit.

It was a not uncommon stunt to land them abeam on a CVA deck with a favorable cross-deck wind. Stall speed with the STOL kit is under 40 MPH...

 

[Timerover51]

The Air Force was asking for a 9,000 foot runway for the B-36, and at least 8,000 feet for the B-47. I did find my information on USAF runways and take-off and landing distances for USAF transports, along with my Navy stuff.

Based on those figure, I would recommend for a Very Heavy Airport about 4000 meters of runway, with a 1000 meters of clearance at each end as a minimum. Note, the runway must be of heavy-duty reinforced concrete. You are not going to be landing these large aircraft on grass.

Also remember that these figures are for heavier-than-air winged aircraft, not helicopters or lighter-than-air vehicles. The LTA vehicles do require a fair amount of clear airspace for landing, as they are quite susceptible to wind.

For a Heavy airport, I would recommend about 2500 meters with again about a 1000 meters of clearance at each end, and some form of hard surface.

 

[aramis]

LTA ports require the length of the airship plus the length of the mooring rope (often, half the length or more itself) in a 360° radius of NOTHING above the landing surface save the mooring mast; you can, however, overlap these circles on the field, keeping the masts more than 1 such radius apart, as they tend to all blow into parallel orientations in any given wind.

Double moored (nose and tail) can reduce it to much less area, but presents severe limits on operational wind regimes, and limits to airships of a limited range of lengths. Too small, and you can't connect both lines; too big and you cannot land.

 

[Hovtej]

The Air Force was asking for a 9,000 foot runway for the B-36, and at least 8,000 feet for the B-47. I did find my information on USAF runways and take-off and landing distances for USAF transports, along with my Navy stuff

I was stationed at Wright-Patt AFB "Area B" in the late 60's. The runway there was on a steep downhill slope to help that monster take off on the short runway. One of my later people was a retired CMSgt and crew chief on the 36's and had many stories to tell.

I know Navy aircraft carriers point into the wind to help A/C take off. My AF wife had a Navy carrier pilot as a flight instructor who insisted on short-field take-offs and landings. Came in handy for another plane's unannounced landing when she was taking off one time--first solo!

 

[Hovtej]

BTW, the B-36 tested at Wright-Patt carried a Gnome fighter that could be launched to provide its own fighter support at long ranges and re-attach to the B-36 for refueling and return. The pilot could move back and forth between the aircraft. Like a carried small craft on a Traveller ship. From descriptions, redocking was interesting.

 

[Timerover51]

BTW, the B-36 tested at Wright-Patt carried a Gnome fighter that could be launched to provide its own fighter support at long ranges and re-attach to the B-36 for refueling and return. The pilot could move back and forth between the aircraft. Like a carried small craft on a Traveller ship. From descriptions, redocking was interesting.

That was the XF-85 Goblin. Here are a couple of links.

http://www.air-and-space.com/goblins.htm

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...09/Article/195800/mcdonnell-xf-85-goblin.aspx

The Navy did have F9C Sparrowhawk fighters carried by the airships Akron and Macon which performed very well. Unfortunately, with the loss of the airships, development was stopped.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1033

 

[Condottiere]

The Americans recycled the idea from Zeppelin parasite fighters.