All Things Vargr

[flykiller]

some attempts are made to maintain their knowledge and technical base, which is what leaders are for.

charismatic leaders of decentralized raider societies are more likely to attempt to seize knowledge and tech from the next tribe over than to attempt to build or to maintain it themselves.

"the adjacent star system has copies of the movie Lonely Vixens Of The Great White North! I Your Leader will secure a starship and lead you in a raid for our share!"

"we have to build a ship first. there's a yard ...."

"then line up! we'll seize the yard and I Your Leader will inspire them to build us one!"

"well, they'll need engineers, and most of them were seized by another band."

"the insolence! line up, we'll recapture them and I Your Leader will persuade them to work for Me instead!"

"I dunno, they're getting triple pay already ...."

"then I Your Leader will secure our own engineers loyal to Me! uh ... where are engineers from?"

"well, there's a college in the next tribal domain ...."

"then line up! I Your Leader will lead you to victory in seizing that college and will provide them with the inspiration to study hard and build us a ship so we can raid the next star system over and win and have our own copies of Lonely Vixens Of The Great White North! Follow Me!"

 

[Condottiere]

So after high tech weaponry and starship engineering, Vargr raiders value iPhones, washing machines and hair dryers.

 

[flykiller]

Vargr raiders value iPhones, washing machines and hair dryers.

absolutely. dealing with all that dog hair is not a trivial issue, and electronic communications expands the influence of one's charisma far and wide.

can you imagine their version of rap and youtube ....

arf Arf arf-arf Arf arf
arf Arf arf-arf Arf!
arf Arf arf-arf Arf arf
arf Arf arf-arf ARF!

dawg.

 

[Condottiere]

If it's not been mentioned before.

What's the Solomani designation for Vargrs?

Terriers.

 

[Blue Ghost]

absolutely. dealing with all that dog hair is not a trivial issue, and electronic communications expands the influence of one's charisma far and wide.

can you imagine their version of rap and youtube ....

arf Arf arf-arf Arf arf
arf Arf arf-arf Arf!
arf Arf arf-arf Arf arf
arf Arf arf-arf ARF!

dawg.

You forgot to add scrathing SFX ... and some sampling too.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Doggone Logistics or A Tale Of A Tail

Since there\s a natural span of control a pack leader can exercise, a forethoughtful one would be careful as to who he'd recruit into his pack.

A Super Pack Leader would be inundated with applications, and a natural tendency would be for him to accept all comers.

This would allow a more cohesive division of labour, assuming the Super Pack Leader has a goal in mind, and knows what he's doing, as opposed to just accumulating followers and flying by the seat of his pants.

Super Packs can be divided into a number of normal packs, as compared to Military Bands, that follow an imposed and usually customary organization model; these packs would be run by appointed lieutenants.

At least one will be composed of less belligerent individuals, and get to do support aspect of the lean mean fighting machine. Because support infrastructure for Vargr really is shaved to the bone, with a lot more teeth than tail.

And that's if you're Lucky, though I'm certain there have been other capable Vargr leaders besides him.

Since most Vargr organizations don't tend to extend much beyond ye basic pack, the pack leader will have to do some canine resourcing internally, probably with less than optimum results. That's not to say he couldn't find some pack members able to carry the load, it's just that most will consider that the low end of the totem pole.

 

[flykiller]

now that's fairly cohesive. good job.

assuming the Super Pack Leader has a goal in mind, and knows what he's doing, as opposed to just accumulating followers and flying by the seat of his pants.

absent some method of accountability, whether personal or objective, very likely the "seat of the pants" pack would be the most common by far.

support infrastructure for Vargr really is shaved to the bone, with a lot more teeth than tail.

support infrastructure is not tail. it's bone.

That's not to say he couldn't find some pack members able to carry the load, it's just that most will consider that the low end of the totem pole.

if workers are not valued then little work will be done.

(african wild dog behavior, outstanding)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVHEHMVJ_Aw

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Managing Mutts or Dog In A Manger

Handling your pack is an art form, as any leader will tell you, because members have differing personalities, and aren't institutionally broken down and remolded into brainwashed lackeys, though some of the longer and larger established Vargr polities have demeaned themselves and taken that decadent step yet.

Staffing a starship requires four skills, engineering, otherwise it won't go, electronics, otherwise it won't tell you anything, piloting, or you won't be able to point it safely in the right direction, and astrogation.

Cunning pack leaders realize that mutinies are unlikely to happen, if they hold the monopoly on most, if not all, of those skills; monopoly not only means there's no one else onboard that can duplicate that skill set, but those that do, are very loyal.

Even amateur pack leaders will try to recruit the very best practitioners in the local manpower pool, but try does not necessarily translate to succeed.

The more Promethean pack leaders will nurture members with a high aptitude for them, besides trying to learn it themselves.

One method to bind such talent is to seduce it, and then marry it, creating a stronger subpack within a pack. 'Cause if you liked it, then you should have put a collar on it.

 

[flykiller]

Cunning pack leaders realize that mutinies are unlikely to happen, if they hold the monopoly on most, if not all, of those skills

then what is the function of the pack?

 

[Condottiere]

Cannon fodder, or drinking buddies.

But there can only be one.

Alpha, that is.

 

[Condottiere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLYvqlels_4

 

[atpollard]

Cannon fodder, or drinking buddies.

But there can only be one.

Alpha, that is.

Did you read that the Alpha Male (wolf) is a myth. It is based on bad research that assumed that bachelor wolves from different groups living in zoos were an accurate representation of how wolf packs functioned in the wild. When they studied actual wolves in the wild, the error became obvious.

Do you keep your wife and children in line by frequently beating them to remind them that you are tougher?
Neither do wolves.

Wolves build around related social groups that cooperate for survival.
The 'alpha' is usually the eldest. Just like your grandfather is in charge at the thanksgiving dinner table. It ain't about 'Alpha Male Dominance'.

The 'Alpha' behavior is all about defending the group from outsiders.

Truth is usually so much richer than fiction.

Here you go, if anyone is interested in some light reading ... HOW TO REALLY BE ALPHA LIKE THE WOLF

 

[Condottiere]

I'm sure they've tried unifying socialistic soviet packs; the communist Vargr at some point or another will find that some comrades are just more equal than others.

Even humans have a pecking order, though that can vary depending on the situation, and they certainly have hierarchies, classes, castes, tribes, bands and nations, without which, it's kinda hard to progress or nail down that progress.

A Vargr tradition is if they don't like the social set up, they can pack up and leave; at some point, they'll have run out of space on their planet.

And given their Somalistic tendency of raiding their neighbours, came to the conclusion they needed to stick together.

Now it's possible you'll end up with an oligarchy in the form of a tribal council, but most intelligent species instinct is to centralize power.

Vargr as a race is the sum total of all the tropes, archetypes and stereotypes the writers or the players want to heap on them, much like the Solomani get all the the racism, Communist and fascism tropes, archetypes and stereotypes applied with, and Aslans are lions.

Dogs are wolves, and dogs like leaders.

 

[robject]

Even humans have a pecking order, though that can vary depending on the situation, and they certainly have hierarchies, classes, castes, tribes, bands and nations, without which, it's kinda hard to progress or nail down that progress.

Interestingly enough, while organization and civilization are of course necessary for infrastructure, hierarchy appears to have an inverse relationship with some types of progress (Bourgeois Equality: How Ideas, Not Capital or Institutions, Enriched the World, Univ of Chicago Press 2016).

 

[flykiller]

most intelligent species instinct is to centralize power.

can't speak for "most species" but in humans the instinct is not to centralize power, but for individuals (or in some cases tribes) to centralize power in themselves.

 

[Condottiere]

Humans want to control their immediate environment.

The pack instinctive may make vargr more amenable to cooperative ventures.

Even pirates elect their captains and ship's officers, but their word is law unless the majority of crew believe their interests are being misrepresented.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Interestingly enough, while organization and civilization are of course necessary for infrastructure, hierarchy appears to have an inverse relationship with some types of progress (Bourgeois Equality: How Ideas, Not Capital or Institutions, Enriched the World, Univ of Chicago Press 2016).

Hi Rob,

*** Good point, but why is hierarchy so intrinsic to nearly every type of animal life from even the moderately complex (simple insects) to the enormously complex (homo sapiens)? In fact, many attribute increasing complexity to order or extropy, the opposite of entropy and chaos... ***

Equality, even if the most simple behavioral or social type, would be much easier if more of the species was physiologically or even functionally equal in capacity and capability. But, instead we're all unique with different strengths and weaknesses. Love the idea, but, as of 2016, none of us have found a workable solution so we all suffer under various levels of governance and politicians... LOL

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Condottiere]

What do you call a Vargr space ace?

Dogfighter.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Canine at the Bat, or Friendship

Do the Vargr have any battleships?

My gut says no.

To qualify that, they have none at present, or more precisely, they don't have the infrastructure to build any. At present. They may have had some in the past, but they probably never came across opposition that required any concerted effort at a naval build up, and considering the rather inherent unstable nature of their polities, couldn't maintain it once everything went to hell.

That doesn't mean there couldn't have been legacy battleships living a rather precarious existence, kept running by the rather dedicated and innovative efforts of their crews. The next question would be at what tech level were they constructed, and most likely it would have been tech level eleven or twelve.

The next option is to beg, borrow or steal one. I don't think I've ever read about a case where one disappeared from Imperium service or space, nor that Vargr managed to get hold of one headed to the wrecker's yard.

Fairly sure Imperium Intelligence tracks large warship hulls to ensure they don't fall into unfriendly paws, and will send a task force to destroy it if they fall into the wrong paws, or any paws.

The Vargr do seem to have been able to contribute two weak (by Zhodani standards) battle squadrons, and three cruiser ones, also weak.

Depending on which variant of Traveller you're referring to, a squadron is either eight or four units, which means we're talking about eight to sixteen battleships.

Loosely defined.

Why loosely defined?

Where did the Vargr get hold of them? Did they build shipyards capable of building battleships? Seems unlikely, and certainly not enough to maintain eight of them, let alone sixteen.

However, we do have the Zhodani, who might have surplus battleships, that they can donate to friendly Vargr client states.

Seeing that the Zhodani are at tech level fourteen, they probably still have a use for tech level thirteen battleships, which means they gave the Vargr at best tech level twelve battleships, none of which would exceed hundred kay tonnes.

What could happen, the Zhodani help set up and supervise some shipyards, where the tech level twelve battleships could be refurbished to cutting edge Vargr tech level thirteen standards.

 

[mike wightman]

Does the US navy still have a use for WW2 era destroyers and farm off their WW1 era destroyers to third world navies?
Imperial Navy warships are TL15
Zhodani Navy warships are TL14

The Vargr extents is a region of space where the dominant major race is the Vargr. Within that volume of space are numerous Vargr pocket empires, with a range of TLs.

The Vargr will have warships built at their own shipyards - they do have them you know - and they will be built to the highest TL of the particular Vargr state.

In the FFW counter mix the vargr have TL13 battleshpips. There will be vargr states that build TL14 battleships, but they were not allies of the Zhodani during the FFW.