Rules Only: Alternate Methods of Life Support Recharge?

[DangerousThing]

I apologize for resurrecting the thread, but I came across some more data for your one-year trade pioneer/exploration ship. For every 1,000 man-days of operation, you should plan on having 1 (one) individual sufficiently ill or injured so as to require care in your sick bay. As you did not say the size of your crew, I would recommend dividing 1,000 by your crew number to get the number of man-days for a likely illness/injury, and then divide 15 by that number. If you come up with a factor of 1.5 or higher, you need sufficient sick bay space for two persons. Of course, if you have a factor of 2.5, then increase it to three persons, and so on. The Leviathan-class of merchant cruiser is listed as having a crew of 56, so 1000 divided by 56 gives 17.86, so every 18 days on the average, you would have someone sufficiently sick or injured to be in sick bay. As 15 divided by 18 is less than one, for planning purposes, a 1-bed sickbay should be sufficient.

I don't think a gap this short counts as a resurrection. I've seen threads resurrected from years before.

Do accidents happen along those sort of averages, or would a 2-3 bed sick bay tend to be better for the 56 man crew.

My crew will be around 12, so I probably will need only a single sick bed.

 

[Timerover51]

I don't think a gap this short counts as a resurrection. I've seen threads resurrected from years before.

Do accidents happen along those sort of averages, or would a 2-3 bed sick bay tend to be better for the 56 man crew.

My crew will be around 12, so I probably will need only a single sick bed.

Basically, that is an average of a large number of men over the period of a year. Given that the Leviathan is more of an exploration ship, and accidents might be concentrated more when visiting new planets, I could see a 2-3 man sick bay. With a crew of 12, a one bed sick bay should be more than enough, and if you need a two person sick bay, the using a double cabin as one would be an option.

 

[Timerover51]

Interesting info. Just some thoughts on it:

The problem with any average is that they use to be missleading. If you have a 1000 men crew, you're quite more likely to have your sick bay empty several days and then have an accident (or disease outbreak) that affects several crewmembers, so keeping with the average you talk about, than to have 1 men each day in the sick bay. The larger the numbre of people in your population, the closer averages will be with reality.

But for a single ship, out of contact and with a small crew, this leads to the eternal dilemma of using more ressources than expeted to be needed, so that you can cope with a peack use, or having just the average and hope for the peak need doesn't appear.

In an exploring ship, after about 2 weeks have passed with the crew on it, you can expect that infectious diseases from biological agents carried by the crew will not occur, as any such biological agent would have already provoked the outbreak or your crew is probably immunized (of course there may be diseases with longer latent period, but they are few and unlikely). If they keep in the ship, no new bugs would come aboard, so your crew is relatively safe in this issue.

If your crew is calling to inhabited and known ports, you can expect to know what kind of bugs you can pick at each port, and tak preventive measures against them.

OTOH, if your crew makes landings to unknown planets, you need to quarantine your landing parties after each landing or you risk an unknown bug to infect your crew and provoking an outbreak.

Another thing to take into account about sick bays is the likehood of a single accident to account for more than one crewmember.

And of course, you need always remember that you're out of any help while on jumpspace (and more if your ship is exploratory), unlike current RW ships that are unlikely to be unable to evacuate a crewmember by helo if needed for many days...

You have some very valid points. I am using some large number averages. I do assume that any ship likely to be on an extended expedition MUST have a doctor or qualified medic on board. After that, you start getting into trade offs. A larger sick bay is going to cost more in terms of equipment and volume, but if you have a large crew, the possibility of having multiple crew members injured in the same accident increases. What sort of exploration is being done, and what does past history, if any, provide as a guide for evaluating the risks involved? If your ship is going to be surveying worlds where you have more of a tropical climate, the risk of disease and parasites increases, as does the possible need for a quarantine area. What is the potential for combat with indigenous natives or the potential for encountering dangerous animals? If that is high or potentially high, the need for a larger crew and expanded sick bay because more of a driving factor.

The quarantine area is a separate issue, as if you decide that you need it, then essentially you are putting in a ship within a ship, as it is going to need a totally isolated life-support system, along with separate quarters, food supplies, and recreation materials for a period of up to two weeks. You might want to consider having a large ship's boat, capable of providing life support for say 4 people for two weeks, and use that at the isolation ward.

 

[aramis]

Any ship with a subcraft essentially has a quarantine area already - the subcraft.

 

[McPerth]

You have some very valid points. I am using some large number averages. I do assume that any ship likely to be on an extended expedition MUST have a doctor or qualified medic on board. After that, you start getting into trade offs. A larger sick bay is going to cost more in terms of equipment and volume, but if you have a large crew, the possibility of having multiple crew members injured in the same accident increases. What sort of exploration is being done, and what does past history, if any, provide as a guide for evaluating the risks involved? If your ship is going to be surveying worlds where you have more of a tropical climate, the risk of disease and parasites increases, as does the possible need for a quarantine area. What is the potential for combat with indigenous natives or the potential for encountering dangerous animals? If that is high or potentially high, the need for a larger crew and expanded sick bay because more of a driving factor.

The quarantine area is a separate issue, as if you decide that you need it, then essentially you are putting in a ship within a ship, as it is going to need a totally isolated life-support system, along with separate quarters, food supplies, and recreation materials for a period of up to two weeks. You might want to consider having a large ship's boat, capable of providing life support for say 4 people for two weeks, and use that at the isolation ward.

Aside from a qualified doctor, any exploration ship is likely to hava a scientific crew that includes (at least) a botanist, a zoologist, a chemist and several biologists, that can probably (with the right equipement) sintetize antibiotics (or, at TL high enough even monoclonal antibodies and vaccines) to treat and prevent a large variety of illnesses.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

And they will spend half the time oohing and ahhhing over the infection, or poking the face-hugger, or whatnot. These people are academics who will be thrilled to see this sort of thing "in the field". They will *not* be good doctors (and certainly not good nurses) - that is, solving the problem and getting people well. Maybe if they're field personnel to start with, but I'm seeing ivory tower guys as being no help at all in that arena. :nonono:

 

[Timerover51]

And they will spend half the time oohing and ahhhing over the infection, or poking the face-hugger, or whatnot. These people are academics who will be thrilled to see this sort of thing "in the field". They will *not* be good doctors (and certainly not good nurses) - that is, solving the problem and getting people well. Maybe if they're field personnel to start with, but I'm seeing ivory tower guys as being no help at all in that arena. :nonono:

I would tend to agree with you with respect to the more "ivory tower" types, although if they are willing to get their hands dirty, they might be somewhat useful. I have been doing some looking at the TO&E's for units in World War 2, and given the chance of problems for an exploration/landing party, I am thinking that for a reasonably large ship, say Leviathan-size or larger, you might actually want a doctor with a fairly high skill level in what would be family practice for a wide general knowledge, and then a medic-type with a Medical Skill Level of 2 to go with any landing party.

 

[McPerth]

And they will spend half the time oohing and ahhhing over the infection, or poking the face-hugger, or whatnot. These people are academics who will be thrilled to see this sort of thing "in the field". They will *not* be good doctors (and certainly not good nurses) - that is, solving the problem and getting people well. Maybe if they're field personnel to start with, but I'm seeing ivory tower guys as being no help at all in that arena. :nonono:

Those Ivory Tower cientifics are more likely to be in the university on the capital planet, enjoying the commodities given by its high TL and waiting for the more rought and practical field scientifics to return with the samples and reportss to mess with and to conduct second hand ressearch about them and more in deepth laboratory work with the samples.

The ones accompaining those exploratory ships are, IMHO, more likely to be of the practical and adventuresome kind, and probably more likely to be able to improvise and use their knowledge to deal with practical problems.

 

[aramis]

The ones accompaining those exploratory ships are, IMHO, more likely to be of the practical and adventuresome kind, and probably more likely to be able to improvise and use their knowledge to deal with practical problems.

Or ivory tower types' pet grad students earning a fellowship...

 

[Timerover51]

Or ivory tower types' pet grad students earning a fellowship...

That depends on what the person is interested in and what his area of study is. When I was sitting at Walter Reed in early 1977, waiting to see if I would walk again, I had as a roommate a guy from the Walter Reed Institute of Research that had been in the Amazon region studying tropical diseases. In the course of so doing, he picked up one of them himself. The only drug therapy for what he had was being experimented on in France, so a couple of guys flew in from France with the experimental drugs. As near as I could tell, they threw a bunch of FDA regs out the window, and put the guy through the treatment course in an isolation ward at the Institute of Research. It was one of those cases of trying to get the bugs killed by the drugs before the drugs killed the patient. Some academics do get their hands dirty and some do not.

If your ship is going to be out for a year, that alone might separate the serious ones from the "ticket punching" type.

 

[Carlobrand]

And they will spend half the time oohing and ahhhing over the infection, or poking the face-hugger, or whatnot. These people are academics who will be thrilled to see this sort of thing "in the field". They will *not* be good doctors (and certainly not good nurses) - that is, solving the problem and getting people well. Maybe if they're field personnel to start with, but I'm seeing ivory tower guys as being no help at all in that arena. :nonono:

I do not think that PhD behind the name would qualify a zoologist/chemist/etc. as the brand of doctor that gets people well. And, hey, if there's a face-hugger involved, it's good odds there's about to be a radical winnowing of the local gene pool. Any academic that manages to survive that isn't really an academic anymore.

Good way to winnow out some of the less cautious players, too.:devil:

 

[Fritz_Brown]

OK, so, with all this discussion...

In designing a stationary, self-contained base (on an airless moon), I have put in power and fuel storage (for the power). I have life support, where I'm assuming temperature and air flow (and filtering). I have ducts to move the air around. There are hatches everywhere (for isolation purposes). There are freshers. I might have artificial grav (the moon might be small enough to not have much gravity). On the living quarters side, I have a garden area, entertainment, cafeteria/commons (as well as kitchens in the quarters), a company store.... There will be water pipes and electrical conduit....

Am I forgetting anything?

BTW, the one side will be cold and dark, as the power is off. So, all those hatches will have to have their own power source. Anything else?

 

[aramis]

OK, so, with all this discussion...

In designing a stationary, self-contained base (on an airless moon), I have put in power and fuel storage (for the power). I have life support, where I'm assuming temperature and air flow (and filtering). I have ducts to move the air around. There are hatches everywhere (for isolation purposes). There are freshers. I might have artificial grav (the moon might be small enough to not have much gravity). On the living quarters side, I have a garden area, entertainment, cafeteria/commons (as well as kitchens in the quarters), a company store.... There will be water pipes and electrical conduit....

Am I forgetting anything?

BTW, the one side will be cold and dark, as the power is off. So, all those hatches will have to have their own power source. Anything else?

Armor? (Anything where you have no air needs a modicum of armor to stop the solar radiation.)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Good point. This is an underground facility, and well-armored. The atmo ducts also have very sturdy cutoffs at every junction so any section can be totally sealed.

 

[SanDragon]

Medical!

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Hmmmm, good point!

 

[BytePro]

With PCs in mind - monitoring systems; standard audio/visual/seismic alarms; emergency services; emergency exits; morgue and/or crematorium. :devil:

 

[Carlobrand]

...I have put in power and fuel storage (for the power). ...

Backup solar power with a battery reserve, feeding a line that powers emergency lighting, the doors and emergency communications, and providing life support to a small portion of the facility designated as the emergency retreat in the event of failure of main power.

If it's well-armored and buried, pressure shouldn't be a problem, short of a seismic event, asteroid strike or military assault, but you'll want little alarm boxes in the ceiling to sound the alarm in the event of a significant O2-ratio drop, and little emergency O2 cannisters in wall-boxes to provide a few minutes breathing to get out of the affected area. Said alarm boxes should be able to draw power from the emergency power grid in the event of failure of main power. That's more in the way of background color, though useful if the players find themselves in a fix. Also gives you a way of signaling the players when they're walking into a bad-air zone; that's always an interesting gambit to thow in.

There'll probably be a computer network, or possibly a community network and then a stand-alone providing computer services for whatever it is the base was originally built for.

This is a base, not a ship - it has to be able to run for long periods, and supplies have to come to it. So, a place for ships to land and be unloaded, a warehouse for supplies. Is the company store serving as a commissary? Depending on the size of the place, small subsidiary "stands" or shops here and there will ease the traffic load on the company store and allow people to buy high-turnover consumables - like milk and bread, a ready-made sandwich or burger for lunch, and so forth - closer to home or workplace without having to go all the way to the store for it.

Maybe a place where they grow yeastcake or synfoods to reduce food imports.

Bots? Does it use simple bots for menial work? Roombas, robotic carts and such, and a central janitorial room to serve them?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

No solar, as it would require a visible footprint on the surface. I am looking at power sources for the doors, as one entire section has powered airtight hatches that are all sealed.

Yes, there are places for a ship to land - concealed. Sssshhh!

As to bots, hmmmmm....... I will have to consider that....... Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Timerover51]

No solar, as it would require a visible footprint on the surface. I am looking at power sources for the doors, as one entire section has powered airtight hatches that are all sealed.

Yes, there are places for a ship to land - concealed. Sssshhh!

As to bots, hmmmmm....... I will have to consider that....... Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

Have you considered radio-isotope thermal generators?