Annic Nova: review and ideas

[Grav_Moped]

A jump governor is a property of a jump drive, not the power source.

A Collector is a power source for a jump drive.

You need both a jump drive and a power source (and potentially fuel) to make a jump.

This comes from my (non-canon, or at least based in the '77 rules) concept of Jump Drives: The jump drive burns the jump fuel itself, and the power plant only provides the energy needed to stabilize the jump capacitors' charge rate. This is analogous to the peaker plants (wikipedia link) in a regional power grid compensating for fluctuations in wind/solar energy capacity.*

If the Jump Drive burns the fuel, it does so in its own power plant. And a Jump Governor controls how it does that. But when driven by a Collector, it's not burning anything! Instead, the Collector blasts the Magic Fusion Soup it's spent a week gathering up, through the Jump Drive's "combustion chamber". Thus, it's the Collector that controls how its energy gets used, not the Jump Drive. For Early or Prototype Collectors, that control is to divert part of the torrent of Magic Fusion Soup overboard instead of into the Jump Drive. Standard and better Collectors can stop the flow and keep the unused Magic Fusion Soup in the bottle for later use. Both methods are precise enough that it's not necessary to have an external power plant.

It makes sense to me, given how I think Jump Drives work. It's not canon, but the canon explanation seems implausible.



*The idea here is that the fast-burn-reactor in the Jump Drive is not only inefficient, but also unpredictable. Jump takes full capacitors (18EP*Jn*100Td) but the necessary power plant contribution is only 2EP*Jn*100Td. I'm positing that the other 16EP*Jn*100Td come from the Jump Drive's reactor. In theory, the Jump Drive could be sized to produce the entire 18EP*Jn*100Td -- and in LBB2 '77, it was.
The reason they aren't (and this is just my explanation for power plants of Pn=Jn being needed from HG '77 onward) is that the Jump Drive reactor output varies unpredictably by up to +/-6.25% between runs (the range between 16EP and 18EP per Jn per 100Td). If the Jump Drive was designed to provide 100% of the power needed, it would soon either overcharge the capacitors or fail to provide enough power to Jump. A standard ship's power plant can rapidly change its output from zero to full power and compensate for the Jump Drive's output variations.

The current canon explanation is that all fuel (baseline AND jump fuel) is burned by the powerplant, which is briefly run at an amazingly high power output during Jump initiation. I dislike that because it gives power plants potentially game-breaking capabilities. I think it's better to lock the massive power output for Jump to the Jump Drive than to mix it with the rest of a ship's power supply and consumption.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm pretty sure the current explanation is that hydrogen is converted into exotic particles.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I was going to resort to deriving something from Jump Capacitors...

Yes, jump capacitors were very abusable. Unfortunately the CT errata killed that:

Energy passes to the jump capacitors (during a combat round) either by the rules for Breaking Off by Jumping or by the rules for black globes absorbing energy. Once energy is in the jump capacitors, it can be used in only two ways: by the rules for Breaking off by Jumping or disposed of through the power plant (as explained in the Black Globes rule). Energy disposed of through a ship's power plant is not actually used to power the ship; it is eliminated. Capacitors cannot be used to power the ship if the power plant has been disabled; in fact, if the power plant has been disabled, energy in the capacitors cannot be disposed of through the power plant.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The current canon explanation is that all fuel (baseline AND jump fuel) is burned by the powerplant, which is briefly run at an amazingly high power output during Jump initiation. I dislike that because it gives power plants potentially game-breaking capabilities. I think it's better to lock the massive power output for Jump to the Jump Drive than to mix it with the rest of a ship's power supply and consumption.

You are just moving the capabilities of the fusion reactor included in the power plant to a fusion reactor included in the jump drive as in Megatraveller.

I don't see any difference except that you now have two fusion reactors (one slow [PP] and one fast [JD]), instead of a single reactor that can run in two modes (slow efficient and fast inefficient).

In the end you get the same result...

 

[kilemall]

Collectors harvest exotic particles, you still need electricity to kickstart the alchemical process, which arguably can be activated by either batteries or black globe capacitation.

The reason you need fuel (and a fusion reactor) is because life support isn't a dispensable luxury during the one week transition.

I dunno about that, most engineering scribbles in the margins of the rules seems to indicate life support is a pretty low power drain. As in you can have your power plant reduced to level 1 by any ruleset, run your M-drive at max, and still have enough for life support to run.

That would suggest that you could operate by RTGs as a backup medium. Not luxurious, not running hot water showers or perfect temperature control, but functional enough.

I have no idea what exotic particles are needed for jump given that the regular jump drive doesn't require them either, although maybe they generate the particles as part of normal operation. Or maybe they are muons, I'm big on muon-catalyzed fusion as part of the explanation for jump drives, but how the heck would you store them?

A more important system to keep powered would be the computer determining/controlling when you drop out of jump. Which if you were using the LBB2 computer rules, might mean a computer that took a hit and you were having to roll to make sure it stays running, requiring CONSTANT attention for someone resetting it- for a week. Fail, and maybe you drop out of jump early- or late if you miss the gravity field of the target planet and the star stops you. Or not.

 

[kilemall]

The current canon explanation is that all fuel (baseline AND jump fuel) is burned by the powerplant, which is briefly run at an amazingly high power output during Jump initiation. I dislike that because it gives power plants potentially game-breaking capabilities. I think it's better to lock the massive power output for Jump to the Jump Drive than to mix it with the rest of a ship's power supply and consumption.

I'd rather roll with the Jump Drive is half crazy insane power generator and half jumpspace entree.



Thought about the abuses, say firing up the J-plant to get an extra spinal weapon shot or the like, and figured the way to avoid all that is all that expended fuel not actually converted to mass has to go somewhere- if it doesn't go into jump as the gas shell or some crazy accel to get to the jumpspace window, you've got either a 300G sudden accel or a hot plasma mess with nowhere to go but through the engineering section into ship destruction.


Another possibility of rules lawyer engineering might be the capacitors, load up enough of those and maybe you could use a lower reactor level to fire up the jump drive without all the fuel use. The issue there is the power leak level of the capacitors themselves- they aren't batteries and should not retain power for very long.

 

[kilemall]

Yes, jump capacitors were very abusable. Unfortunately the CT errata killed that:

Hmm, I homeruled that 10% of the power plant is power distribution, and that if you spent 10% more of the cost and tonnage of the plant you could have a separate power distributor subsystem put in that was set to another source. That could be capacitors, or another power plant.

The other part of the homerule was that if you built in two or more plants, each would be tied into specific systems and they couldn't power those dedicated systems across power plant subgrids unless you spent the cost/tonnage for extra distributors.


As noted in my earlier post, you really start having to define how long the HG capacitors can 'hold a charge' before leaking.

As for jump power generation, I always figured the power plant had it's distributor load capacity and wouldn't work for jump drive power distribution.

The jump capacitors however, I always figured those were a clever way to restart the reactor- save up all that solar/RTG or whatever power and have a dramatic restart sequence.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Hmm, I homeruled that 10% of the power plant is power distribution, and that if you spent 10% more of the cost and tonnage of the plant you could have a separate power distributor subsystem put in that was set to another source. That could be capacitors, or another power plant.

The other part of the homerule was that if you built in two or more plants, each would be tied into specific systems and they couldn't power those dedicated systems unless you spent the cost/tonnage for extra distributors.

The CT systems are quite unforgiving. Only one system can function at the same time.

Abuses are obvious:
Several combined Z-drives giving very cheap performance;
Warships with undersized PPs charging capacitors before battle to power weapons in battle;
Battleriders (very small and cheap) powered by capacitors charged by the tender since it already has a large PP for the jump drive.

None of those are really unreasonable, but they would change the system considerably...

Take this incorrect small missile frigate:

FM-A1666J2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 479       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=38
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                    Cargo=135 Fuel=888 EP=115,2 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                      135     1 849
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant         Z                  6    2       146       384
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 8 weeks            4       120          
Purifier                                    1        13         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           34        68         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                               135          
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 1 849,03         Sum:       135     1 849
Class Cost          MCr   388,30        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 479,22

It uses two Z PPs, one to power weapons and screens, and one to power the M-Drive for agility.


The correct version would be problematic:

FM-A166BJ2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 724       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=39
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                   Cargo=0 Fuel=997,8 EP=229,88 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                    -  62     2 155
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant                           11    1       230       690
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 4 weeks            4       230          
Purifier                                    1        15         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           35        70         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                                            
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 2 154,94         Sum:     -  62     2 155
Class Cost          MCr   452,54        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 723,95

Note that it is more expensive and 62 Dt overtonnage, i.e. impossible to build...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I dunno about that, most engineering scribbles in the margins of the rules seems to indicate life support is a pretty low power drain. As in you can have your power plant reduced to level 1 by any ruleset, run your M-drive at max, and still have enough for life support to run.

In Megatraveller, where this was defined in detail, life support, especially artificial gravity, took considerable power.

Here a small Scout-like ship:

The M-drive draws 350 MW.
Life support draws ~100 MW.

Not as much as the M-drive or weapons, but much too much to power by batteries for weeks on end.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A battery to power 100 MW for a bit over a week, say 200 h, is 20 000 MWh:

Much too large and expensive to fit into a small ship...

The battery would also require a few hundred engineers.


Note: A 20 000 MWh = 20 000 000 kWh battery is about 1.5 million Tesla PowerWall 2. At about $6500 and 114 kg a piece that would be 10 billion dollars and 170 000 tonnes.

 

[robject]

I guess that's why batteries aren't really mentioned in Traveller5 as a viable option for anything except equipment. A "starship sized" powercell would be 10% of the ship's volume... and provide power for about a day.

Come to think of it, that's probably what the rules talk about when it mentions emergency power.

 

[Condottiere]

Forty percent, without additional sources.

 

[Grav_Moped]

You are just moving the capabilities of the fusion reactor included in the power plant to a fusion reactor included in the jump drive as in Megatraveller.

I don't see any difference except that you now have two fusion reactors (one slow [PP] and one fast [JD]), instead of a single reactor that can run in two modes (slow efficient and fast inefficient).

In the end you get the same result...

Not really. Putting the hot reactor in the Jump Drive makes it easy to justify not being able to use its power for anything else. Having the main powerplant able to run at 18 times its normal output (at an appalling fuel burn rate, but still...) leaves plenty of room for abuse.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The CT systems are quite unforgiving. Only one system can function at the same time.

Abuses are obvious:
Several combined Z-drives giving very cheap performance;
Warships with undersized PPs charging capacitors before battle to power weapons in battle;
Battleriders (very small and cheap) powered by capacitors charged by the tender since it already has a large PP for the jump drive.

None of those are really unreasonable, but they would change the system considerably...

Take this incorrect small missile frigate:

Spoiler

FM-A1666J2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 479       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=38
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                    Cargo=135 Fuel=888 EP=115,2 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                      135     1 849
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant         Z                  6    2       146       384
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 8 weeks            4       120          
Purifier                                    1        13         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           34        68         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                               135          
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 1 849,03         Sum:       135     1 849
Class Cost          MCr   388,30        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 479,22

It uses two Z PPs, one to power weapons and screens, and one to power the M-Drive for agility.


The correct version would be problematic:

FM-A166BJ2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 724       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=39
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                   Cargo=0 Fuel=997,8 EP=229,88 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                    -  62     2 155
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant                           11    1       230       690
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 4 weeks            4       230          
Purifier                                    1        15         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           35        70         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                                            
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 2 154,94         Sum:     -  62     2 155
Class Cost          MCr   452,54        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 723,95

Note that it is more expensive and 62 Dt overtonnage, i.e. impossible to build...

T5.1 lets you do that. I'm pretty sure it also strips the extra performance from the W-Z drives or their equivalent, so in that system it doesn't matter that you can.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

T5.1 lets you do that. I'm pretty sure it also strips the extra performance from the W-Z drives or their equivalent, so in that system it doesn't matter that you can.

Agreed, in T5 drive performance is linear, so it does not matter much if you combine drives. Not even T5 allows battery operated ships.

MgT2 does allow battery operated craft, it's just impractical.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Yes, jump capacitors were very abusable. Unfortunately the CT errata killed that:

I said "derive" rather than "use outright". Jump Caps hold 36EP-turns per Td and can be charged and discharged (more or less) instantly.

If you consider the power plant and 20Td non-Jump fuel in a Type S as an energy storage system (the worst case in CT), it averages 33EP-turns per ton. It's clear that that batteries with jump cap energy density won't replace fusion power.

 

[whartung]

I said "derive" rather than "use outright". Jump Caps hold 36EP-turns per Td and can be charged and discharged (more or less) instantly.

And

Energy passes to the jump capacitors (during a combat round) either by the rules for Breaking Off by Jumping or by the rules for black globes absorbing energy. Once energy is in the jump capacitors, it can be used in only two ways: by the rules for Breaking off by Jumping or disposed of through the power plant (as explained in the Black Globes rule).

As always, but never addressed, this suggests that Jump is driven by the capacitors (not the power plant), and thus the question of why a power plant is necessary to fill the capacitors (vs, say, solar panels over a longer period of time).

 

[Grav_Moped]

...

As always, but never addressed, this suggests that Jump is driven by the capacitors (not the power plant), and thus the question of why a power plant is necessary to fill the capacitors (vs, say, solar panels over a longer period of time).

The Magic Particles are generated by the fast-burn fusion reaction in the Jump Drive. Normal, high-efficiency fusion reactions don't make them (or enough of them, or enough in a short timespan), so you have to do the fast-burn fusion reaction anyhow. Might as well use it to charge the capacitors while you're at it.

Collectors slurp the Magic Particles out of the aether along with some hydrogen atoms, the faintest wisps of stellar winds, and...

Pure Energy¹.

All this gets stuffed into a bottle over a course of a week. Then the bottle gets uncorked and its contents spew forth into the Jump Drive's reactor chamber. It's hot enough to charge the Jump Caps, and contains enough Magic Particles to enable [jump drive technobabble].



1. Society, I., (1988). "What's on your mind (pure energy)". Information society. Tommy Boy Records. Retrieved May 23, 2021 from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijAYN9zVnwg

 

[kilemall]

In Megatraveller, where this was defined in detail, life support, especially artificial gravity, took considerable power.

Here a small Scout-like ship:

The M-drive draws 350 MW.
Life support draws ~100 MW.

Not as much as the M-drive or weapons, but much too much to power by batteries for weeks on end.

Hmm, I never bought into MT.


Can't imagine even all the scrubbing and water treatment is going to cost that much- only way I could justify it is perhaps temperature control.

 

[kilemall]

The CT systems are quite unforgiving. Only one system can function at the same time.

Abuses are obvious:
Several combined Z-drives giving very cheap performance;
Warships with undersized PPs charging capacitors before battle to power weapons in battle;
Battleriders (very small and cheap) powered by capacitors charged by the tender since it already has a large PP for the jump drive.

None of those are really unreasonable, but they would change the system considerably...

Take this incorrect small missile frigate:

FM-A1666J2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 479       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=38
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                    Cargo=135 Fuel=888 EP=115,2 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                      135     1 849
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant         Z                  6    2       146       384
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 8 weeks            4       120          
Purifier                                    1        13         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           34        68         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                               135          
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 1 849,03         Sum:       135     1 849
Class Cost          MCr   388,30        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 479,22

It uses two Z PPs, one to power weapons and screens, and one to power the M-Drive for agility.


The correct version would be problematic:

FM-A166BJ2-F82900-45009-0      MCr 1 724       1 920 Dton
bearing     1     11  1                           Crew=39
batteries   1     11  1                             TL=15
                   Cargo=0 Fuel=997,8 EP=229,88 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                    -  62     2 155
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             A          1 920          
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      230
Scoops              Streamlined                                 2
Armour              15                 F            307       553
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  6    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  6    1        47        96
Power Plant                           11    1       230       690
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 4 weeks            4       230          
Purifier                                    1        15         0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1        38        10
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4        16         2
Staterooms, Half                           35        70         9
                                                                 
Cargo                                                            
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       768         1
                                                                 
Bay                 Missile, 50 t      9    1        50        13
Triple Turret       Beam               4    1         1         3
Single Turret       Fusion             5    1         2         2
Triple Turret 7/bat Sand               8    1         7         5    7 mounts organised into 1 battery. 
                                                                 
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           2    1        30        50
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 2 154,94         Sum:     -  62     2 155
Class Cost          MCr   452,54        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 1 723,95

Note that it is more expensive and 62 Dt overtonnage, i.e. impossible to build...

Doesn't hurt my feelings in the slightest- Fusion-Electric sounds like a good system option, the tradeoff is less power plant to absorb hits and capacitors should be like missile magazine explodey when charged are hit, and I LIKE engineering wizardry DRAMA.