Argh! Traveller Book or Mongoose 2E

[Whipsnade]

Given Flykiller's fairly recent thread on trying to get a Traveller group going, I'd say go with MgT.

It's not d20 but it's closer to what current players think an RPG should be and should do.

And I'm giving you that advice as someone who has played and played with CT for nearly forty years.

 

[GM Joe]

I realize the CD's are the better buy money wise but it came down to this: Nostalgia for a game that I’ve only played recently (under T5 which is too much game for me to GM) vs. unified system. Unified system wins.

Oh! Well, that was easy after all. Have fun!

 

[creativehum]

Given Flykiller's fairly recent thread on trying to get a Traveller group going, I'd say go with MgT.

It's not d20 but it's closer to what current players think an RPG should be and should do.

And I'm giving you that advice as someone who has played and played with CT for nearly forty years.

I didn't see anything in that thread to suggest the system had anything to do with how that game went.

In fact, I am not even sure what system he was using. (By system I mean the actual application of specific rules and rulings. I don't mean "The Classic Traveller boxed set was sitting on the table but how we played had nothing to do with how the rules are written.")

My own, personal, experience with younger players is that they are fine with -- if not utterly engaged with -- early RPG games.

 

[Supplement Four]

I have to support Whipsnade in that I think MGT is probably closer to most of the recent games on the market.

I love the Traveller Book, and that's the way I'd go.

But, T20 is an excellent choice. A lot of gamers know how to play d20 games.

And, MGT is close, in style, to other RPGs that are on the market.

 

[rhialto]

I realize the CD's are the better buy money wise but it came down to this: Nostalgia for a game that I’ve only played recently (under T5 which is too much game for me to GM) vs. unified system. Unified system wins.

Well, MgT 2e is that: enjoy.

 

[aramis]

My recommend is kind of weak - for either - but is based upon several questions:

1. Based upon the OTU?
2. Is it true that " Low Endurance does not make you easily KO'd"?
3. Ref likes table-driven combat?
4. Do you want Armor to make you harder to hit (instead of reducing damage)?
5. Do you want custom resolution for specific skills?

If the answer to all of these is yes, TTB is the way to go.
If you want to run in the OTU, you need to add Bk5.

If the answer to #5 is no- go any edition but CT. Or port a task system into CT.
Why? Because CT is rules by specific inclusions, with 4 different approaches used in the line, and 3 in the core rules... counting the adventures therein.

• 2d+mods for ≥N
• Xd for stat+mods or less
• 2d + mods for ≤N
• Roll on table for result.

CT requires the ref to make throws up fairly willy-nilly, but has specific rules in most skills' descriptions. Every Ref's game felt different because of this. It's flexible, but that's not always good.

If the answer to #2, #3, or #4 is no... CT combat is going to be a problem. MGT is a no on all three of those... or, you can do the CT thing and mix-n-match. Some people make the armor mod from the CT table into a damage reduction (either per die or per hit, pick); others (myself included) used Striker/AHL either straight or hybridized - there is a JTAS Article on merging CT Bk 1 and Striker that hybridizes one way; MT hybridized a second, and I and most people I knew playing CT hybridized a third.

(The JTAS 16 version is convoluted, slightly, but the damage conversion is easy: keep CT B1/B4/S4 damage values, striker Pen's, and on the armor roll, the amount below 8 is the negative modifier per die of damage.)
(My approach was to note that a light is 3D, a severe is 6D; we can presume a kill is either 9D or 12D... and to note 4-7 is light, 8-11 is serious, and 12+ is deadly... I used a table, myself...)

Roll	≤3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15
Damage	0	1D	2D	3D	4D	5D	6D	8D	10D	12D	14D	16D	18D

CT is good for tinkering with.
MGT is great for tinkering with, and you can legally convert it to a new game and share it. But it's not great for the OTU.

 

[Supplement Four]

If you want to run in the OTU, you need to add Bk5.

Why?

 

[Whipsnade]

I didn't see anything in that thread to suggest the system had anything to do with how that game went.

Re-read the bits with Colonel Munchkin and how Fly had to de-fang most of the PC's previous career contacts.

If memory serves, there were also noises about the possibility of skill/stat progression; i.e. leveling up.

Questions regarding skill/stat progression and leveling up are a constant part of the concurrent Q&A sessions I handle while running one-off game night session at my FLGS. When I explain Traveller doesn't have levels and how skill/stat progression takes time, most players' reactions range from bemused surprise to outright contempt because "real" RPGs have levels and/or progressions.

For better or worse, MgT simply has more of what many current players think a current RPG should have.

 

[creativehum]

For better or worse, MgT simply has more of what many current players think a current RPG should have.

This is absolutely true. I'm pretty sure I've started the same upthread.

And Classic Traveller is definitely not that. Which is why I like it.

I still saw no situations where the application of rules in that thread led to trouble. (Please note I have no idea how that player built his Colonel. If I understand from the thread correctly he flipped though MgT and picked skills? If I had been the Referee in that situations I would have had him roll a new character from scratch using the character creation rules*. If that is something he didn't want to do or didn't like then we both would know the game wasn't for him and we would move on.)

______
* I would be using the CT character creation rules. Again, I don't know what system was in use in that thread.

 

[infojunky]

Money burning a hole in my pocket. Can't make up my mind whether to get TB or MgT2E. I know TB has lots of older material that I can pick up but MgT2E is new but I hear the splat books aren't that good. I'm looking for which would be more attractive to new players. Basically I want both but can only afford one.

It really depends.

Price wise Mongoose 2nd Edition Core book is $30 No Starship construction.

The Traveller Book is $20 Has Starship construction.

Those are in Dead Tree editions. For Pdfs Mongoose is the same price while The Traveller Book is $10.

Now if you are willing to go digital The Core CT cd is $35 you get All of GDW's CT books, suppliments, adventures, Aliens books and Games.(Note you get every version of the CT rules as well. the 79, and 81 editions plus Starter and The Traveller Book)

 

[Welf]

Can anyone tell me what the quality of the digital CT books on the CD is?
Is it possible to search the files for text or is it just a bunch of non-searchable pictures? If not are there any digital alternatives that are searchable?

 

[Thanos]

MGT is great for tinkering with, and you can legally convert it to a new game and share it. But it's not great for the OTU.

Explain that if you would.

 

[atpollard]

Can anyone tell me what the quality of the digital CT books on the CD is?
Is it possible to search the files for text or is it just a bunch of non-searchable pictures? If not are there any digital alternatives that are searchable?

Quality of the OCR varies. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here is a direct cut and paste from the LBB1 (1981 ed) to show the OCR results.

Introduction
Traveller deals with a common theme of science-fiction: the concept that an
expanding technology will enable us to reach the stars and to populate the worlds
which orbit them. The major problem, however, will be that communication, be it
political, diplomatic, commercial, or private, will be reduced to the level of the 18th
century, reduced to the speed of transportation. The result is a large (bordering on
the infinite) universe ripe for the adventurer's bold travels. Using this set of three
books, players can play single scenarios or entire adventuring campaigns set in any
science-fiction situation. These game rules are as complete as they could be and
provide for solitaire and unsupervised play. But the main thrust of the game is the
refereed or umpired situation. An independent referee allows a large degree of
flexibility and continuity often not possible when players themselves control the
game. A referee inserts some measure of uncertainty in the minds of the players as
they travel through the universe. Finally, the referee deals with new situations that
these rules may not cover; after all, no set of rules can totally define the universe
and how it works.

And here is an unedited sample from A11 Murder on Arcturus Station:

Murder on Arcturus Station is a Traveller murder mystery, in which the adventurers
seek to unravel clues to discover the murderer of a wealthy businessman.
It is assumed that this adventure will be administered by a referee who has read
through this booklet and who is familiar both with it and the rules for Traveller. This
situation calls for any Traveller rules set: Basic Traveller (Books 1, 2, and 31, The
Traveller Book, or Starter Traveller, and no additional supplements, books, or other
information. As usual, paper, pencils, six-sided dice, and square-grid graph paper
will prove helpful during the course of the adventure.

So I have had no trouble searching them.
A few of the early books were reset as a labor of love (I think Don McKinney might have done it, but I am not 100% sure) but most are high quality scans with OCR and cleaned up text. You may find some OCR errors, there were once many, but I believe that most have been fixed.

So to the best of my knowledge, all files are searchable (at least I have yet to encounter one that is not).

I hope that answers your questions.

 

[Whipsnade]

This is absolutely true. I'm pretty sure I've started the same upthread.

Yes, you have.

And Classic Traveller is definitely not that. Which is why I like it.

We're in agreement there.

I still saw no situations where the application of rules in that thread led to trouble.

It was more a case of which rules were not applied than a case of how those rules being used were applied. Colonel Munchkin showed up with a PC built with certain rules only to find out that those rules would not be used.

(Please note I have no idea how that player built his Colonel. If I understand from the thread correctly he flipped though MgT and picked skills?...

Bingo. The player showed up with a min-max combat monster complete with several helpful prior contacts. The contacts alone point to Mongoose chargen. Whether the player rolled up the PC or simply built it, I do not know. The min-max nature suggests he built it however.

If I had been the Referee in that situations I would have had him roll a new character from scratch using the character creation rules*.

It seems Fly tried to split the difference. Rather than require a new PC or let the player use an unsuitable PC, he worked with the player to "edit" the existing one into a form more suited to the campaign.

If that is something he didn't want to do or didn't like then we both would know the game wasn't for him and we would move on.)

That's basically what happened, but only after a few sessions.

 

[infojunky]

Quality of the OCR varies.

(I think Don McKinney might have done it, but I am not 100% sure)

As I understand it, the Files themselves originally started as the collection of Digital Backups done with Marc's permission by the Fanbase back when Ct and the like where out of print. From there Don did a lot of clean up and sorting to get the best PDFs into the collection.

With that I have yet to encounter a PDF in the collections that wasn't searchable.

 

[Silverhawk]

I still saw no situations where the application of rules in that thread led to trouble. (Please note I have no idea how that player built his Colonel. If I understand from the thread correctly he flipped though MgT and picked skills? If I had been the Referee in that situations I would have had him roll a new character from scratch using the character creation rules*. If that is something he didn't want to do or didn't like then we both would know the game wasn't for him and we would move on.)

______
* I would be using the CT character creation rules. Again, I don't know what system was in use in that thread.

Reminds me of a player who managed to roll a MT character with Laser Rifle-5. I handled it by removing them from known space and then the batteries went dead.

As for purchasing, I concur with the cd route. More bang for the buck.

 

[kilemall]

Reminds me of a player who managed to roll a MT character with Laser Rifle-5. I handled it by removing them from known space and then the batteries went dead.

I can think of another way to handle that.

The character becomes the most infamous gunhand of the Wild Wild Space.

And every gunhand in the West Sector is looking to make a reputation by being the one to take him....

 

[Silverhawk]

I can think of another way to handle that.

The character becomes the most infamous gunhand of the Wild Wild Space.

And every gunhand in the West Sector is looking to make a reputation by being the one to take him....

Well the adventure was always planned to remove them from what they knew as known space. When he rolled the character and made the choices it just was easier to go have it become useless after a point because there was no technical support.

But your right about the alternative being everyone and their brother coming to try and take him down.

 

[Welf]

@atpollard / infojunky
Thank you for those information. I finally stumbled upon Traveller last year and got myself the core rules for MgT 2e and now wanted to look into the older and different versions. As printed versions are a bit costly I wasn't sure if getting the digital versions was advisable at all - for the older editions.

 

[whartung]

Well the adventure was always planned to remove them from what they knew as known space. When he rolled the character and made the choices it just was easier to go have it become useless after a point because there was no technical support.

Did you do this to the other players? How many rounds of ammunition did they bring? How many extractors and firing pins did they break?