Ask the Playtesters.

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by cmdrx:

What exactly is a vl? Is it a kilolitre or some abstract volume unit for vehicles. How many vl to the displacement ton?

The vl is an abstract unit representing both weight and volume, to make vehicle construction more appealing to non-gearhead.

The last draft of the T20 rules never explained the relation between vl, Kls, and Dtons, and I'm not sure if it was addressed. The formula I've been using for the vehicle design Travellers Aide's is 200 vl = 1 kl and 2,800vl = 1 dton. And 1vl = 1kg.

And how are SI points figured it looks geometic/logorythmic instead of arithmetic. The 1000vl Jeep in the T20 Lite gets 50 SI, the G Carrier (10,000vl) 75, the the 100dt Scout (?vl) has 100 SI while the 200dt Trader gets 115.
Is it a different scale for Ships than it is for vehicles?

The formula in general is the cube root of vl's times a constant (3), Though the table has the values rounded for easier use in a calculator, so it's not an exact match.

 

[justacaveman]

If 1 dton = 2,800vl then an Air Raft would only be a little over 2 dtons. As I understand it an Air Raft is about 4 dtons. Or am I just wrong?

 

[tjoneslo]

You're not wrong. The air/raft itself is just over 2 dtons, but the access space to get into the air/raft while in a spacecraft hanger and do maintenance and fly it out requires the other ~2 dtons.

 

[justacaveman]

I thought that would be the case. It's been a long time since I looked at CT or Highguard ship construction rules, how much extra volume must be set aside per dton of carried vehicles or small craft?

 

[cmdrx]

Thanks all for the response to my question re: vl. I had a feeling it was a 'vehicle space' not unlike they used for the GURPS grav vehicle system in Ground Forces.

Another thing, T20 Lite explains how sensors work, giving examples of various tasks, but how do the ranges work. It never explains this. I am assuming they are like the range bands used in MT. This has actualy came up in our T20 Lite game, the ship was trying to scan and I wasn't sure just how far out they could detect an object in km or hexes.

again, thanks in advance.

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by cmdrx:
but how do the ranges work. It never explains this.

Correct. T20lite does not explain the starship sensor ranges (Hunter may want to fix this). Part of the reason is the full T20 advanced combat system uses a two level tactical system, which is very difficult to shoehorn into this space. Assuming the CODE tags work, here are the starship sensor/comm ranges.
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Range Distance (in Kilometers)
Visual up to 50
Close up to 15,000
Short up to 45,000
Medium up to 75,000
Long up to 120,000
Very Long up to 240,000
Extreme 1 up to 300,000
Extreme 2 up to 360,000
Extreme 3 up to 420,000
Extreme 4 up to 480,000
Far up to 4,800,000
System-wide beyond 4,800,000</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by LordRhys:
I thought that would be the case. It's been a long time since I looked at CT or Highguard ship construction rules, how much extra volume must be set aside per dton of carried vehicles or small craft?

T20 (and HG) says 110% of large (over 100 Dton) ships must be allocated for hangers, or 100% for small craft in a small (under 1000dtons) ship or 130% in a large (over 1000 dtons) ship.

For vehicles it says 100% of the vehicle for storage. Though if you want more than just stowage space (like work space), I'd recommend 200%. (Think garage for your car, but that's not canon).

Part of the issue here is CT simply declared the Air/Raft to be 4 Dtons, whereas in T20 we have a vehicle design system which more exactly specifies how big the vehicle is for the capabilities. And the T20 designed vehicle does not match the CT decided value.

 

[cmdrx]

Thanks for the range table. It looks like a combat hex would be about 15,000km then, which incidently is the optimal range of the Seeker's laser. Do ship weapon ranges work the same as personal weapons? -2 to hit with -1d of damage for each increment beyond the first. Lasers seem rather short ranged then. Or is that range just for a mining laser? I imagine plasma/fusion guns would have even lower ranges. Try to use them at anything beyond 0 hexes and you got major penalties.

 

[tjoneslo]

Yes, starship weapons use the same D20 system of -2 per range increment. For the guns we removed the -1d per range increment (or can you point out the reference in T20lite?).
Approx Ranges for turret weapons:
Missiles: 90Kkm
Mining laser: 15Kkm
Beam Laser: 30Kkm
Pulse Laser: 45Kkm
Fusion/Plasma: 4.5Kkm
PA: 30Kkm

Bay weapons are longer ranged, and PA Spines are 115K and Meson Spines are 75Kkm.

 

[Shadow Bear]

The version of the play test rul I have states you can group squadron together for combat but does limit the size fo the vessels grouped. If the final rules do not put some limits here we may need tables to tell us what the factor of a squadron of spinal mount vessels will be, Or bay weapons for that matter.

Also the matter of small craft being allowed to use a full triple turret could end up with a five ton fighter having the same sting as a 100 ton star ship.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Shadow Bear:

Also the matter of small craft being allowed to use a full triple turret could end up with a five ton fighter having the same sting as a 100 ton star ship.

That's always been the case, though. In High Guard, the limitations on fighters came from electronics more than armament. IIRC, you need about 40 tons to build a 6-g fighter that can still carry a top-of-the-line computer, bridge, and the power plant to run it. Without the bridge and computer, small craft were at a disadvantage.

Don't know if that changed for T20, though.

 

[cmdrx]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:
Yes, starship weapons use the same D20 system of -2 per range increment. For the guns we removed the -1d per range increment (or can you point out the reference in T20lite?).
Approx Ranges for turret weapons:
Missiles: 90Kkm
Mining laser: 15Kkm
Beam Laser: 30Kkm
Pulse Laser: 45Kkm
Fusion/Plasma: 4.5Kkm
PA: 30Kkm

Bay weapons are longer ranged, and PA Spines are 115K and Meson Spines are 75Kkm.

The T20 Lite(v2.0) page reference is p.35 under 'Range'

From what I am gathering here, it seems that Ship combat is very much like personal combat. The ship has an AC based on its agility and AR with a base of 10. AR decreases damage dice just like personal armour. You use your ranks in gunnery + the USP# of the weapon as your attack bonus, and range reduces this. I am guessing that defensive systems (Sandcaseters, Meson Screens, Lasers in PD role v. Missiles) add to the AR v. the weapon in question. Forex: A triple sandcaster turret (USP3) would add AR of 3 v. lasers. Each weapon does its USP# in damage dice to the SI. For lasers its d6, do other weapons have other dice (are Meson guns d20?). I am also guessing that critical hits do double damage and ignore AR.

From what I have figured so far, Ship combat is going to be fun, fast, and deadly.

What I realy like is the fact that everything is based on HG! I don't need to learn yet-another-Traveller-ship-design-system. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to convert old HG designs over, it doesn't take much to do so.


Thanks again on the info.

 

[cmdrx]

Originally posted by Tom Schoene:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Shadow Bear:

Also the matter of small craft being allowed to use a full triple turret could end up with a five ton fighter having the same sting as a 100 ton star ship.

That's always been the case, though. In High Guard, the limitations on fighters came from electronics more than armament. IIRC, you need about 40 tons to build a 6-g fighter that can still carry a top-of-the-line computer, bridge, and the power plant to run it. Without the bridge and computer, small craft were at a disadvantage.

Don't know if that changed for T20, though.</font>[/QUOTE]I've actualy tried to make a 5dt fighter in HG. The result was somthing relatively slow(3-4g) with no agility (unless you used missiles) and a low end computer. Good for an aerospace fighter, but not anything close to a fully armed and armoured 100dt ship. And this was as TL15!