Aspects of the Rebellion Era that snap people's disbelief suspenders

[Antony]

The Twilight 200 background always peeved me in Western Australia. How many people know for instance that Western Australia passed a referendum to secede way back in the early 20th century only to have it ignored.

Our constitution has in its preamble a nice note about an indisoluble union. (Which may be perhaps why New Zealand never joined?)

Having Queensland become part of New Guinea and Tasmania as an independent country was a bit much, but hey that's a different game

 

[Antony]

The Twilight 200 background always peeved me in Western Australia. How many people know for instance that Western Australia passed a referendum to secede way back in the early 20th century only to have it ignored.

Our constitution has in its preamble a nice note about an indisoluble union. (Which may be perhaps why New Zealand never joined?)

Having Queensland become part of New Guinea and Tasmania as an independent country was a bit much, but hey that's a different game

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Antony:
Having Queensland become part of New Guinea and Tasmania as an independent country was a bit much, but hey that's a different game

Actually, only _part_ of Queensland joined with PNG in the 2300 setting. In the real world, this area has next to no population and economy. It was very obviously selected by drawing an arbitrary line on a map, without looking at what actually existed on the ground.

In short, it was an interesting idea that made no sense.

Very much like the Aslan invasions...

As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.

As far as the plausibility of an anti-Norris revolt goes:
1. Norris had enemies.
2. Norris' assumption of authority was spurious.
3. Almost all other areas of the Imperium were, at least initially, divided in their allegiances. Why should Deneb be an exception?

It would make sense for the rebels to ally to the ihatei - the latter did, after all, have significant military forces. They may not have been strong enough to overrun Tobia etc in their own right, but they were strong enough to be useful allies.

And they were an obvious target for pro-Norris propaganda... It's reasonable enough that the common view of the situation would be an "Aslan invasion", rather than an anti-Norris revolt.

Well, it makes about as much sense as the canonical case, anyway...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Antony:
Having Queensland become part of New Guinea and Tasmania as an independent country was a bit much, but hey that's a different game

Actually, only _part_ of Queensland joined with PNG in the 2300 setting. In the real world, this area has next to no population and economy. It was very obviously selected by drawing an arbitrary line on a map, without looking at what actually existed on the ground.

In short, it was an interesting idea that made no sense.

Very much like the Aslan invasions...

As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.

As far as the plausibility of an anti-Norris revolt goes:
1. Norris had enemies.
2. Norris' assumption of authority was spurious.
3. Almost all other areas of the Imperium were, at least initially, divided in their allegiances. Why should Deneb be an exception?

It would make sense for the rebels to ally to the ihatei - the latter did, after all, have significant military forces. They may not have been strong enough to overrun Tobia etc in their own right, but they were strong enough to be useful allies.

And they were an obvious target for pro-Norris propaganda... It's reasonable enough that the common view of the situation would be an "Aslan invasion", rather than an anti-Norris revolt.

Well, it makes about as much sense as the canonical case, anyway...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Antony:
Having Queensland become part of New Guinea and Tasmania as an independent country was a bit much, but hey that's a different game

Actually, only _part_ of Queensland joined with PNG in the 2300 setting. In the real world, this area has next to no population and economy. It was very obviously selected by drawing an arbitrary line on a map, without looking at what actually existed on the ground.

In short, it was an interesting idea that made no sense.

Very much like the Aslan invasions...

As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.

As far as the plausibility of an anti-Norris revolt goes:
1. Norris had enemies.
2. Norris' assumption of authority was spurious.
3. Almost all other areas of the Imperium were, at least initially, divided in their allegiances. Why should Deneb be an exception?

It would make sense for the rebels to ally to the ihatei - the latter did, after all, have significant military forces. They may not have been strong enough to overrun Tobia etc in their own right, but they were strong enough to be useful allies.

And they were an obvious target for pro-Norris propaganda... It's reasonable enough that the common view of the situation would be an "Aslan invasion", rather than an anti-Norris revolt.

Well, it makes about as much sense as the canonical case, anyway...

 

[Falkayn]

With regard sto why would Aslan come over the rift, I suspect that it has something to do with their desire to conquer somebody, rather than just squat on some useless land.

IMTU, I lean more towards the idea that the ihatei were more of an excuse for the invasion than the real heart of it.

They were an essential component, mainly because they represent long-term garrison troops and new government structures, but the actual forces that rolled up* the Imperials were normal clan military and not ihatei colonists.

* As unlikely as this seems, and with T20's bias towards smaller capital ships it does not seem so strange.

 

[Falkayn]

With regard sto why would Aslan come over the rift, I suspect that it has something to do with their desire to conquer somebody, rather than just squat on some useless land.

IMTU, I lean more towards the idea that the ihatei were more of an excuse for the invasion than the real heart of it.

They were an essential component, mainly because they represent long-term garrison troops and new government structures, but the actual forces that rolled up* the Imperials were normal clan military and not ihatei colonists.

* As unlikely as this seems, and with T20's bias towards smaller capital ships it does not seem so strange.

 

[Falkayn]

With regard sto why would Aslan come over the rift, I suspect that it has something to do with their desire to conquer somebody, rather than just squat on some useless land.

IMTU, I lean more towards the idea that the ihatei were more of an excuse for the invasion than the real heart of it.

They were an essential component, mainly because they represent long-term garrison troops and new government structures, but the actual forces that rolled up* the Imperials were normal clan military and not ihatei colonists.

* As unlikely as this seems, and with T20's bias towards smaller capital ships it does not seem so strange.

 

[Elliot]

Posted by Alanb
-------
As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.
---------

That is how I played almost to a letter. My Trojan Reaches were based on the original write up in Third Imperium magazine and the Digest which contained all manner of organised crime, slaving and power politics. As the true final frontier of the Imperium the nobility were a cross between mafia and Shakespearean robber barons from the history plays. That and the Aslan were fairly populous in Tobia and Gazulin.

They saw the opportunity to take personal land when Norris was weak and seized the day with a little help from Aslan allies who had moved to contain (i.e crush) the Glorious Empire and take extra land in the middle neutral subsectors.

Its a hand wave, sure, but it makes a degree of sense. And it stops this nobles would never act against the interests of the Imperium fiction that is perpetrated by people who have never glanced at the history of courtly politics.

As to Duke Quinn of Tobia - the Digest says that he committed suicide when Tobia fell. Well if he had been shafted by his closest advisors as to the readiness of the Tobia fleet he might well do so, and Norris, through TAS might well report it as an Ihatei invasion rather than an internal rebellion. You know disinformation, keep mum etc.

 

[Elliot]

Posted by Alanb
-------
As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.
---------

That is how I played almost to a letter. My Trojan Reaches were based on the original write up in Third Imperium magazine and the Digest which contained all manner of organised crime, slaving and power politics. As the true final frontier of the Imperium the nobility were a cross between mafia and Shakespearean robber barons from the history plays. That and the Aslan were fairly populous in Tobia and Gazulin.

They saw the opportunity to take personal land when Norris was weak and seized the day with a little help from Aslan allies who had moved to contain (i.e crush) the Glorious Empire and take extra land in the middle neutral subsectors.

Its a hand wave, sure, but it makes a degree of sense. And it stops this nobles would never act against the interests of the Imperium fiction that is perpetrated by people who have never glanced at the history of courtly politics.

As to Duke Quinn of Tobia - the Digest says that he committed suicide when Tobia fell. Well if he had been shafted by his closest advisors as to the readiness of the Tobia fleet he might well do so, and Norris, through TAS might well report it as an Ihatei invasion rather than an internal rebellion. You know disinformation, keep mum etc.

 

[Elliot]

Posted by Alanb
-------
As for the Aslan: my take on things is that Tobia and all that rebelled against Norris. Norris couldn't send his fleets against "the Aslan", because most of the "Aslan" fleets were actually the local Imperial forces. That is, instead of a scattering of elderly TL13 cruisers, the Deneb fleet would have been facing equally capable ex-Imperial battle squadrons.

Glisten became involved in this rebellion at some point, possibly only briefly.

The Aslan were present during all of this, but they were like the "foreign fighters" in Iraq - more an excuse than a reality.

Of course all of this contradicts canon. But at least it's not too much canon. I don't have the DGP source that mentions the Duke of Tobia, anyway. He might have got maneuvered out by his subordinates, rather than actually being an incompetent.
---------

That is how I played almost to a letter. My Trojan Reaches were based on the original write up in Third Imperium magazine and the Digest which contained all manner of organised crime, slaving and power politics. As the true final frontier of the Imperium the nobility were a cross between mafia and Shakespearean robber barons from the history plays. That and the Aslan were fairly populous in Tobia and Gazulin.

They saw the opportunity to take personal land when Norris was weak and seized the day with a little help from Aslan allies who had moved to contain (i.e crush) the Glorious Empire and take extra land in the middle neutral subsectors.

Its a hand wave, sure, but it makes a degree of sense. And it stops this nobles would never act against the interests of the Imperium fiction that is perpetrated by people who have never glanced at the history of courtly politics.

As to Duke Quinn of Tobia - the Digest says that he committed suicide when Tobia fell. Well if he had been shafted by his closest advisors as to the readiness of the Tobia fleet he might well do so, and Norris, through TAS might well report it as an Ihatei invasion rather than an internal rebellion. You know disinformation, keep mum etc.