Aspects of the Rebellion Era that snap people's disbelief suspenders

[jfugatesr]

Well, like my father-in-law used to say, "what a bunch of mumbo jumbo" when I used to tell him about Traveller.

I finally left the business because I started to agree with him. And I saw SF in general moving away from space opera into a more gritty realism mixed with horror.

Nope, sorry, not for me.

And for every concept and idea, there's a counter idea that makes perfect sense. And then there's a counter idea that pulls it back the other way.

Since it's all thought game mumbo jumbo anyway, back to the real world where things really matter.

That's the real reason why I got rid of DGP in the first place and I'm even more certain than ever these days that I made the right decision!

If the Rebellion irks you, then go back to Classic Traveller. In my heart of hearts, that's my favorite version of Traveller as well. The rebellion was a ploy to try and increase the possiblity of adventure ...

History is full of things that shouldn't have happened yet they did. You can take any genre, Star Wars or Star Trek, and pick it apart from any direction you chose and you will be right. You can take any genre and justify it till the cows come home and you will be right.

(Psst: Here's a hint. None of it really exists.)

Such are the ways of us humans trying to invent things that don't really exist. It will have holes. Welcome to the reality of being a fallible human!

In short, you are right. But were I to think about it long enough, I could probably come up with reasons to counter many of your arugments. But hey, I'm not in gaming any more and life's too short.

Don't take this all too seriously. I'm grinning as I write it ... brings back the days of the debates we'd have at game conventions with gamers. Nothing's perfect, including us.

 

[jfugatesr]

Well, like my father-in-law used to say, "what a bunch of mumbo jumbo" when I used to tell him about Traveller.

I finally left the business because I started to agree with him. And I saw SF in general moving away from space opera into a more gritty realism mixed with horror.

Nope, sorry, not for me.

And for every concept and idea, there's a counter idea that makes perfect sense. And then there's a counter idea that pulls it back the other way.

Since it's all thought game mumbo jumbo anyway, back to the real world where things really matter.

That's the real reason why I got rid of DGP in the first place and I'm even more certain than ever these days that I made the right decision!

If the Rebellion irks you, then go back to Classic Traveller. In my heart of hearts, that's my favorite version of Traveller as well. The rebellion was a ploy to try and increase the possiblity of adventure ...

History is full of things that shouldn't have happened yet they did. You can take any genre, Star Wars or Star Trek, and pick it apart from any direction you chose and you will be right. You can take any genre and justify it till the cows come home and you will be right.

(Psst: Here's a hint. None of it really exists.)

Such are the ways of us humans trying to invent things that don't really exist. It will have holes. Welcome to the reality of being a fallible human!

In short, you are right. But were I to think about it long enough, I could probably come up with reasons to counter many of your arugments. But hey, I'm not in gaming any more and life's too short.

Don't take this all too seriously. I'm grinning as I write it ... brings back the days of the debates we'd have at game conventions with gamers. Nothing's perfect, including us.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:

Some few particular things must be accepted in order for it all to work. Every single thing that is possessed of this status works against the overall believeability of the OTU. Therefore, we must allow as few of them as possible to exist.

Some things you can say are just axioms of the setting (like the fact that psi powers or jump travel or thruster plates exist, or piracy is viable in the OTU). Just accept them - and if you can't accept them, change them or play something else.

2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.

This, I feel, is a somewhat large snapper of believability. It's a restriction caused by (a) the complexity of a 3D map and (b) the medium in which the map is presented in. Plus, it's only ever going to be accurate to a certain degree (even today, we're still finding new stars within 6 pc of Sol).

Nowadays of course, we can easily represent a 3D universe with specific computer programs like Galactic, or Astrosynthesis or even Celestia.

Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble".

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:

Some few particular things must be accepted in order for it all to work. Every single thing that is possessed of this status works against the overall believeability of the OTU. Therefore, we must allow as few of them as possible to exist.

Some things you can say are just axioms of the setting (like the fact that psi powers or jump travel or thruster plates exist, or piracy is viable in the OTU). Just accept them - and if you can't accept them, change them or play something else.

2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.

This, I feel, is a somewhat large snapper of believability. It's a restriction caused by (a) the complexity of a 3D map and (b) the medium in which the map is presented in. Plus, it's only ever going to be accurate to a certain degree (even today, we're still finding new stars within 6 pc of Sol).

Nowadays of course, we can easily represent a 3D universe with specific computer programs like Galactic, or Astrosynthesis or even Celestia.

Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble".

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:

Some few particular things must be accepted in order for it all to work. Every single thing that is possessed of this status works against the overall believeability of the OTU. Therefore, we must allow as few of them as possible to exist.

Some things you can say are just axioms of the setting (like the fact that psi powers or jump travel or thruster plates exist, or piracy is viable in the OTU). Just accept them - and if you can't accept them, change them or play something else.

2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.

This, I feel, is a somewhat large snapper of believability. It's a restriction caused by (a) the complexity of a 3D map and (b) the medium in which the map is presented in. Plus, it's only ever going to be accurate to a certain degree (even today, we're still finding new stars within 6 pc of Sol).

Nowadays of course, we can easily represent a 3D universe with specific computer programs like Galactic, or Astrosynthesis or even Celestia.

Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble".

 

[Hyphen]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
Well, like my father-in-law used to say, "what a bunch of mumbo jumbo" when I used to tell him about Traveller.
[snip]
(Psst: Here's a hint. None of it really exists.)

Beautifully put! This is something I have believed for a long time, that the decisions that were made about the story arc were simply made to make things more FUN!

(Y'all remember "fun", don't you?)

Don't take this all too seriously. I'm grinning as I write it ... brings back the days of the debates we'd have at game conventions with gamers. Nothing's perfect, including us.

Thank goodness - I was hoping you're not taking all this "chewing the fat" and "I don't like xxx..." hot air too seriously. Not good for the blood pressure, y'know.

(One of my more minor q's would be: Did you find that Trav fans were more vehement/passionate/one-eyed/obstinate/nit-picky than fans of other game systems?

)

 

[Hyphen]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
Well, like my father-in-law used to say, "what a bunch of mumbo jumbo" when I used to tell him about Traveller.
[snip]
(Psst: Here's a hint. None of it really exists.)

Beautifully put! This is something I have believed for a long time, that the decisions that were made about the story arc were simply made to make things more FUN!

(Y'all remember "fun", don't you?)

Don't take this all too seriously. I'm grinning as I write it ... brings back the days of the debates we'd have at game conventions with gamers. Nothing's perfect, including us.

Thank goodness - I was hoping you're not taking all this "chewing the fat" and "I don't like xxx..." hot air too seriously. Not good for the blood pressure, y'know.

(One of my more minor q's would be: Did you find that Trav fans were more vehement/passionate/one-eyed/obstinate/nit-picky than fans of other game systems?

)

 

[Hyphen]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
Well, like my father-in-law used to say, "what a bunch of mumbo jumbo" when I used to tell him about Traveller.
[snip]
(Psst: Here's a hint. None of it really exists.)

Beautifully put! This is something I have believed for a long time, that the decisions that were made about the story arc were simply made to make things more FUN!

(Y'all remember "fun", don't you?)

Don't take this all too seriously. I'm grinning as I write it ... brings back the days of the debates we'd have at game conventions with gamers. Nothing's perfect, including us.

Thank goodness - I was hoping you're not taking all this "chewing the fat" and "I don't like xxx..." hot air too seriously. Not good for the blood pressure, y'know.

(One of my more minor q's would be: Did you find that Trav fans were more vehement/passionate/one-eyed/obstinate/nit-picky than fans of other game systems?

)

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble". </font>[/QUOTE]Jump Masking, in those systems where it occurs, shatters the economics of the tramp freighter system (which is not to say that I consider that system perfect, of course, but it is sort of embedded in the game). The extra hours spent travelling to and from jump point put a drag on earnings by reducing the total number of jumps that can be made per year.

Over on StuffOnline: Jump Drives and Jump Limit, there&#146s a big discussion of the Tidal Model of gravity&#146s effects on Jump. It reduces the jump limit. That reduction yanks the jump mask of a great many stars back, freeing worlds for more direct access.

EDIT----------
But Jump Masking can&#146t simply be ignored. If a planet has a 100D limit, then so must a star.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble". </font>[/QUOTE]Jump Masking, in those systems where it occurs, shatters the economics of the tramp freighter system (which is not to say that I consider that system perfect, of course, but it is sort of embedded in the game). The extra hours spent travelling to and from jump point put a drag on earnings by reducing the total number of jumps that can be made per year.

Over on StuffOnline: Jump Drives and Jump Limit, there&#146s a big discussion of the Tidal Model of gravity&#146s effects on Jump. It reduces the jump limit. That reduction yanks the jump mask of a great many stars back, freeing worlds for more direct access.

EDIT----------
But Jump Masking can&#146t simply be ignored. If a planet has a 100D limit, then so must a star.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
Jump Masking. Whoops. There's a whomping big load of trouble.

Jump masking itself is somewhat odd. It's based on radius, which in itself is an strange thing to base it on. Personally, I think the only way for it to work is to be based on local density of material. Even a the rarefied atmosphere of a distended supergiant is denser than a nebula or interplanetary space, which is why all stars have 100D limits and nebulae don't.

Other than that though, I can't see how this is necessarily a "whomping big load of trouble". </font>[/QUOTE]Jump Masking, in those systems where it occurs, shatters the economics of the tramp freighter system (which is not to say that I consider that system perfect, of course, but it is sort of embedded in the game). The extra hours spent travelling to and from jump point put a drag on earnings by reducing the total number of jumps that can be made per year.

Over on StuffOnline: Jump Drives and Jump Limit, there&#146s a big discussion of the Tidal Model of gravity&#146s effects on Jump. It reduces the jump limit. That reduction yanks the jump mask of a great many stars back, freeing worlds for more direct access.

EDIT----------
But Jump Masking can&#146t simply be ignored. If a planet has a 100D limit, then so must a star.

 

[Malenfant]

Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

 

[Malenfant]

Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

 

[Malenfant]

Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

Well, I guess that&#146s ok. I myself, admittedly, have tended to dismiss what I don't personally like among the rules, etc. But I usually replace them with something else.

What do you do when a player tries to invest their hard-won cash by working the starship purchasing and freight trading systems? Or the &#147Trading Without a Starship&#148 rules?

How easy do you find it to deal with players who become multi-billionaires?

Originally posted by Malenfant:
IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

You wouldn&#146t, by any chance, happen to have that written out in a referenceable table, would you?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

Well, I guess that&#146s ok. I myself, admittedly, have tended to dismiss what I don't personally like among the rules, etc. But I usually replace them with something else.

What do you do when a player tries to invest their hard-won cash by working the starship purchasing and freight trading systems? Or the &#147Trading Without a Starship&#148 rules?

How easy do you find it to deal with players who become multi-billionaires?

Originally posted by Malenfant:
IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

You wouldn&#146t, by any chance, happen to have that written out in a referenceable table, would you?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Oh. Economics? Pfffffft. I could care less about that . That's another thing I class as an axiom of the setting - the economics works because the setting says it does. I got better things to do with my time* than figure out how much taxes my PC has to pay or how much mortgage I have to pay off or what I have to pay to be profitable in an RPG. I'm happy to leave that stuff as armwaved away in the background.

Well, I guess that&#146s ok. I myself, admittedly, have tended to dismiss what I don't personally like among the rules, etc. But I usually replace them with something else.

What do you do when a player tries to invest their hard-won cash by working the starship purchasing and freight trading systems? Or the &#147Trading Without a Starship&#148 rules?

How easy do you find it to deal with players who become multi-billionaires?

Originally posted by Malenfant:
IMTU, "Jump masking" is based on the mass of the object (well, actually on its gravitational field strength), not the radius. You can't jump from within a g-field of 0.01 m/s2.

(*: like get in pointless arguments on internet boards, or make fictional planets

)

You wouldn&#146t, by any chance, happen to have that written out in a referenceable table, would you?

 

[aramis]

Pointless arguments about Economics, Yes?

 

[aramis]

Pointless arguments about Economics, Yes?

 

[aramis]

Pointless arguments about Economics, Yes?