CT Only: Attribute increases.

[mike wightman]

During character generation your stats can be increased.

Is this increase due to training, bio/mechanical augmentation, genetic re-engineering?

Are the above a requirement to have stats above 12?

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this are.

 

[GM Joe]

I always figured the increases were based on training and/or a general side-effect of doing the job.

As for 13-15, I never thought about the in-game implications of that to be honest. But going back to the generic sci-fi origins of Traveller, it is interesting to think of it being some sort of super-science benefit. Still, given that, for example, Barbarians can get to that range during character generation, I'd assume it's just the top end of human capability.

 

[Murphy]

Better say, it's whatever the referee decides. Since CT rules have no hard say in what exactly represents your attribute increases, and CT in general encourages coming up with stuff instead of it being set in stone.

 

[mike wightman]

I always figured the increases were based on training and/or a general side-effect of doing the job.

That's pretty much what i thought for a long long time, but recently I've been thinking (always dangerous) about how we put the science fiction back into Traveller, especially at TL12+

As for 13-15, I never thought about the in-game implications of that to be honest. But going back to the generic sci-fi origins of Traveller, it is interesting to think of it being some sort of super-science benefit. Still, given that, for example, Barbarians can get to that range during character generation, I'd assume it's just the top end of human capability.

I can accept one or two points increases as being linked to training but a third increase just seems way above what natural training could do to improve on your stats.

 

[mike wightman]

Better say, it's whatever the referee decides. Since CT rules have no hard say in what exactly represents your attribute increases, and CT in general encourages coming up with stuff instead of it being set in stone.

I agree, this is the old last note to the experience rules - there are high tech options, you can make them up to fit your game.

 

[Supplement Four]

At least some of it has to do with your character's age. The original stats that you roll are the stats the character has at age 18. Then, he joins a career or is drafted, and his stats can go up or even down (due to aging effects).

After chargen is done, and the character is put into play, some stats can still be altered using the Experience system as the character progresses through life.

 

[Timerover51]

Unfortunately, Traveller does not really have clear provision for increasing skill levels in the game without devoting large amounts of time to study, when in theory, the player character is not going on adventures. There is some provision in Space: 1889, sort of a Victorian equivalent of Traveller for that. D&D has clear requirements for increased skill levels, but those are pretty much what I think of as "ticket punching".

I view it as if a skill is used successfully during an adventure, where some die-rolling is required to determine success, then a chance exists for skill advancement. Weapons and navigation skills, along with computer skills have the best chance of increase, while skills like Medical have a lower chance. However, if successful use of the Medical Skill is combined with some money and time devoted to study, then that skill level can be increased.

Again, that is just my thoughts, and what the chances are would depend fairly heavily on the skill used.

 

[aramis]

The attribute increases outside CGen represent physical training. It is reasonable to extrapolate that the ones in CGen represent the same, since the rates of gain are similar. (Note, they are not the same... CGen can, in rare cases, generate up to 5 points of gain in 4 years under CT, and 8 points under MT... the maximum number of skill rolls in a first term.)

 

[Supplement Four]

I believe the only score that cannot be altered once out of Chargen is INT. And, EDU increases are limited, outside of Chargen, to the INT score (meaning, if your EDU is higher than INT out of Chargen, you cannot increase EDU).

SOC changes are left in the Ref's hands (Knighthoods gained through roleplaying and such).

Which leaves the physical stats, which can be changed through a physical exercise program per the Experience rules.

 

[mike wightman]

The experience section mentions high TL RNA Int and Edu enhancement - but details are up to the referee (as are the other esoteric methods i mentioned in the OP I suppose)...

 

[mike wightman]

The attribute increases outside CGen represent physical training. It is reasonable to extrapolate that the ones in CGen represent the same, since the rates of gain are similar. (Note, they are not the same... CGen can, in rare cases, generate up to 5 points of gain in 4 years under CT, and 8 points under MT... the maximum number of skill rolls in a first term.)

So not the same at all then, which means that esoteric means may be involved in character generation stat increase. I'm not saying they are, mind you, just that it is a possibility for a referee and/or player to explain their attribute increase during character generation as being due to some sort of esoteric enhancement.

 

[mike wightman]

At least some of it has to do with your character's age. The original stats that you roll are the stats the character has at age 18. Then, he joins a career or is drafted, and his stats can go up or even down (due to aging effects).

After chargen is done, and the character is put into play, some stats can still be altered using the Experience system as the character progresses through life.

And by various esoteric means that the referee can devise.

I've never understood why Traveller has anagathics but no high TL rejuvenation treatment such as exists in many science fiction novels. By TL 15 you would think medical technology could reset the ageing genes to early twenties and start the ageing cycle all over again.

You may require a bit of training to return to the fitness you had at twenty (I know I certainly would lol).

 

[mike wightman]

Unfortunately, Traveller does not really have clear provision for increasing skill levels in the game without devoting large amounts of time to study, when in theory, the player character is not going on adventures. There is some provision in Space: 1889, sort of a Victorian equivalent of Traveller for that. D&D has clear requirements for increased skill levels, but those are pretty much what I think of as "ticket punching".

I view it as if a skill is used successfully during an adventure, where some die-rolling is required to determine success, then a chance exists for skill advancement. Weapons and navigation skills, along with computer skills have the best chance of increase, while skills like Medical have a lower chance. However, if successful use of the Medical Skill is combined with some money and time devoted to study, then that skill level can be increased.

Again, that is just my thoughts, and what the chances are would depend fairly heavily on the skill used.

There is the ridiculously unbalanced instruction skill
I do understand your point though. The problem is that character generation represents training and experience - often in military service. This is the ideal time to learn stuff from experience.

By the time you have left your career you are older and learning new stuff is harder. If you are not careful with in game experience you get what i like to call White Wolf syndrome - a few sessions of experience and your stats increase to almost best in the world status.

I don't mind characters picking up new level 0 skills doing new stuff during the game, but increasing all their commonly used skills too frequently would very quickly unbalance the game.

I like your idea of some skills being easier to gain experience in by doing, and others requiring doing and money.

Something else that should happen is losing skill levels due to lack of use - perhaps skill levels could be made more dynamic some how.

You build up a pool of skills - constant use during an adventure could grant a temporary constant use bonus or make the dedication roll easier, while lack of use could lead to a temporary reduction until you invest some study or refamiliayrisation.

You've given me stuff to think about...

 

[aramis]

So not the same at all then, which means that esoteric means may be involved in character generation stat increase. I'm not saying they are, mind you, just that it is a possibility for a referee and/or player to explain their attribute increase during character generation as being due to some sort of esoteric enhancement.

On a close reread of the CT personal training, it's NOT a permanent gain, either. Unlike the skills, at the end of the training, you lose the benefits; you can start the training again following, to retain them, but 4 years later, it ends again.

 

[mike wightman]

I see what you mean.

Has there ever been anything in print about the esoteric stat/skill increase methods or has it always been left to referees to come up with their own?

 

[McPerth]

In fact, the possibility to raise stats (as you can with skills) is something I always missed in he Instruction skill.

Personaly, I allowed similar rules (just longer time required) to also raise stats as skills with an instructor. The limits then were up to 5+2 x level of instruction skill. For INT and EDU, the maximum an instructor could rais a stat to another character (within this skill level limit imposed) was up to his own. SOC could not be raised this way.

 

[BwapTED]

During character generation your stats can be increased.

Is this increase due to training, bio/mechanical augmentation, genetic re-engineering?

Are the above a requirement to have stats above 12?

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this are.

If I were running, the stat boosts might be from any of those things. ''Mundane'' training would be the default, but I wouldn't turn down a player's idea if it were something like "'the space marines gave my dude psycho-chem treatment and a biomod in his first term" to explain high stats on the UPP. So long as it made sense in the context of the setting and the rolls actually made on the tables, and it wasn't an attempt to get new powers as freebies, why not?


YMMV


RE Instruction:

Book 4 Mercenary, page 13

Hmmmm...

One could interpret the full effectiveness of the skill as representing high tech teaching tools and advanced psychology/cognitive science.

 

[ian54]

Traveller does not really have clear provision for increasing skill levels in the game without devoting large amounts of time to study, when in theory, the player character is not going on adventures.

The time spent in jump space soon accumulates, in an Adventure like Safari Ship it covers a few months, during this time you can conclude training is taking place, over a campaign I could see a character increasing ability scores or skills, this is the real alternative to levelling in other RPGs, and is also limited by ageing.

 

[christopher.boote]

My bigest gripe with CT Chargen is that Marines, Merchants and Other can't increase their Edu scores at all while in-career
I've often thought that the first skills table should be just +1 in an attribute (except for the Other Soc) and there should be a '1a-th' table of things like gun cbt and brawling

 

[Supplement Four]

I've often thought that the first skills table should be just +1 in an attribute (except for the Other Soc) and there should be a '1a-th' table of things like gun cbt and brawling

The vibe I get from CT is that it is a general set of rules--a rule of thumb. Something to get you started. Ref's are almost expected to tweak them. (Unlike, say, 3.5 d20 games that have more of a feel of, "Do it this way and stick by the rules--don't house rule unless absolutely necessary, and even then, keep changes to a minimum.)

Why not add an extra Table for Marines et. al.?

This table can be used for the first term only...

Marine Table

1. +1 STR
2. +1 DEX
3. +1 END
4. +1 END
5. +1 INT
6. +1 EDU