ATV Cutter Module

[Omnivore]

Skipping vehicles and small craft, this design carries an entire company of mercenaries (120 combat + 10 support). Instead of using small craft to deploy troops, it has 40 drop capsule launchers. The streamlined design allows the ship to land for pickup once a landing zone is secured.

Class: Valhalla
Type: Mercenary Cruiser
Architect: Omnivore
Tech Level: 11

USP
C-8622224-050000-00004-0 MCr 393.854 800 Tons
Bat Bear 2 1 Crew: 140
Bat 2 1 TL: 11

Cargo: 31 Fuel: 176 EP: 16 Agility: 2 Marines: 120 Drop Capsules: 40 (plus 120 Ready 120 Stored)
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.939 Cost in Quantity: MCr 315.083


Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)

HULL
800.000 tons standard, 11,200.000 cubic meters, Flattened Sphere Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 4 Engineers, Medic, 3 Gunners, 120 Marines, 10 Other Crew

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 2G Manuever, Power plant-2, 16.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer

HARDPOINTS
8 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-4)

DEFENCES
4 Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 2 Batteries (Factor-5)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
176 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
71 Staterooms, 40 Drop Capsule Launchers with 120 Ready Capsules and 120 Stored Capsules, 31 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 397.793 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.939), MCr 315.083 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
112 Weeks Singly, 90 Weeks in Quantity

 

[travlar]

Perhaps squeezing in 50 low berths to up the troop capacity, you could have a more useful punch.

Actually, I think bunks and fast drug are more effective for shipping troops than low berths. Just cram them in, give them the drug, and go. You might have to give them the antidote when you arrive, but it guarantees no casualties, IIRC, and I think it might be cheaper, too. Heck, you could probably cram them in tighter, too; with fast drug the week goes by really fast.

 

[madmike]

Makes no sense to me to use stasis at all. Troops need to train to keep in peak efficiency. Physical training, weapons drill plus good old fashioned camaraderie builds and strengthens a cohesive fighting units discipline and moral. Putting troops in cold sleep reminds me of Aliens or STL ships.

I cannot find any of my HG Naval ship designs but I know I had several light assault carrier designs plus a couple of smaller converted freighters that provided a good ship for a Merc unit.

I use landing boats (100dT) for orbital assaults and any grav armour could come down from low orbit as required. Wheeled vehicles could come down in landing boats as well as they are modular.

I still have deckplans for my landing boat design and could reverse engineer HG data from those. However a friend who resides now in Ireland is coming back to Australia shortly and has indicated he can scan my ship datasheets (he has copies in storage)

That Valhalla class is a good design, but I would have upped it to 1000dT and added a landing boat and a pinnace, but that is just me

 

[Zutroi]

Madmike - Travlar's fast-drug allows for Jump to pass in 168 'minutes' of troops' subjective time. I think that the troops could easily spend the '3 hour' trip running through mission briefing documents and simulations (run at 1 frame every second!); they should arrive at the drop-point in at least as good shape as a modern paratrooper.

 

[madmike]

Sorry.

You are not going to convince me. not too ken on the idea of troops on drugs

Re-created an old design I did over 25 years ago.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=393758#post393758

 

[Omnivore]

When it comes to AFV's for a mercenary transport, why bother with separate vehicles and small craft to transport them? If the ratings for grav vehicles would result in too long for orbit to surface times, design a small craft with the desired features instead.

Messing around with High Guard and Striker, I get a 8DT AFV-Small Craft Hybrid with 5G rating carrying a crew of 2 and a 4 man fireteam for a price (in quantity) of MCr6.5. Of course I'm playing a bit fast and loose by putting Striker weapons and systems on a HG small craft design but I'm sure I could do something similar with FF&S or MT design systems.

Taking a couple tips from the FFW boardgame, for the same size unit, an armor unit has double the combat rating and elite units have a further doubling of combat rating. Following along these lines, a mercenary outfit's armored units would use highly trained crews to get elite status since the vehicles add so much to the unit cost.

Using the hybrid craft above, a platoon would consist of a headquarters section and three sections of two craft each. The headquarters section would have two craft as well but one would be modified as a command vehicle and the other would be modified as an indirect fire support vehicle. The unit totals would be 8 craft (64DT) and 44 personnel (plus support). Assuming highly trained personnel, it would have about the same combat power as an infantry company.

This platoon TOE is modeled after the German Army's Nov 1, 1943 Armored Reconnaissance Rifle Company organization. Very similar to some modern day US Army organizations. Such a platoon could probably be shoehorned into a modified Broadsword class Mercenary cruiser.

 

[Whipsnade]

Interesting thread... Various and sundry comments...

LBB:2 vs. HG2 - The complaints regarding the Broadsword design have so far overlooked the fact that the ship is a Book 2 design. In the LBB:2 OTU, the ship is pretty damn tough. In the post HG2 OTU, the ship quite frankly sucks. Broadsword is another Kinunir; it only makes sense when you remember when it was designed.

Troop Capacity & Capabilities - The complaints about the small number of troops aboard and their lack of true armor remind me of McPerth's complaints about Traveller ship combat being "wrong" because battles can't occur during high velocity intercepts. McPerth failed to comprehend that the fleeting nature of high velocity intercepts had everything to do with vector movement and not Traveller ship combat which is simply modeling vector movement. Complaints that the troops aboard a Broadsword cannot perform certain missions have everything to do with people attempting to employ them in ill-suited missions and not the number of those troops and their capabilities.

McPerth thinks Traveller ship combat is wrong because he cannot fight battles during fleeting high velocity intercepts and some here think the Broadsword complement is wrong because that platoon cannot fight light a company or battalion. The only thing actually wrong is the perception being employed.

To be sure, A:7 presents the Broadsword troop complement being employed in a manner which is as badly broken as the Broadsword deck plans it also presents, but that shouldn't stop us from thinking about how they can be used correctly just we think about how the deck plans ca be drawn correctly.

For example, look at the sample tickets in LBB:4. How many could a Broadsword fulfill? I only count two; Cadre and Security. Look at the battle system too. How many times does it generate platoon-sized skirmishes? (There's a JTAS adventure the merc cruiser seems very suited for; raiding a facility on Dinomn for zucchai crystals.)

Booadswords conduct raids, they do not fight battles. Broadswords fight in trade wars, they do not fight in planetary wars. Broadswords are paramilitary, they are not purely military. There are larger ships with larger weapons which carry larger units with larger weapons, but they're used in larger roles while Broadswords are used in Broadsword roles.

This is a case of "Horses For Courses". You don't make a hunter pull a plow and you don't use a Broadsword's light infantry platoon like an assault lander's armored grav cavalry company.

 

[rancke]

LBB:2 vs. HG2 - The complaints regarding the Broadsword design have so far overlooked the fact that the ship is a Book 2 design. In the LBB:2 OTU, the ship is pretty damn tough. In the post HG2 OTU, the ship quite frankly sucks. Broadsword is another Kinunir; it only makes sense when you remember when it was designed.

No, it only made sense before the rules changed. It doesn't really matter if it used to make sense. It really doesn't matter that a design makes sense in (say) a Small Ship Universe if you're playing in a Big Ship Universe. The maneuver-drive-less X-boat makes enough sense to be going on with if it's the only way to make a 100T jump-4 ship. It does not make sense if it isn't. The problem is always, "does it makes sense NOW?" If the answer is 'yes' then that's splendid. But if the answer is 'no', you either have to refrain from using the ship (in which case it's useless) or you must deliberately overlook the flaws (which is a strain on the old belief suspenders) or the design must be retconned.


Hans

 

[Dragoner]

BTW, Broadswords make more sense when used as squadrons, rather than individually, which makes sense in not putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

[MCEvans]

Wit the A-7 Broadsword I feel that people are forgetting that the cutters are modular and customizable.

I use one IMTU for a commando Plt and have modules that carry Lopec G-carriers, another that carries 8 pass and 4 Dynchia Survu Recon Vehicles and a Combat Extraction Module (which does the opposite of Assault Boat module).

Would I use a wheeled ATV? Maybe, deciding factors, mission parameters and cost. In a combat situation you are more likely to find parts for a TL9 ATV as opposed to TL15 G-carrier on a TL 8-10 planet.

I know that this was to figure out why one ATV per module, so it is called a cradle, this tells me that the ATV is braced inside to prevent shifting. The doors for release are bottom mounted so that the cutter can come in 'drop' the ATV and make a vertical lift off. ATV on ground ready and cutter is out of harms way.

Just thoughts.

 

[drkem99]

While the troops on Omnivore's design may come to the battle by drop capsule, they can't leave the same way. In the absence of small craft, the ship has to go down and act as the retrieval boat; with that in mind, there is no guarantee that the LZ will be peaceful or that the battle will have gone well.

I would reconfigure the armament on Omnivore's design to include at least one massdriver turret; a starship-sized massdriver can provide superb fire support to troops well beyond direct line-of-sight while the ship is on the ground at a higher volume of fire and at less expense than using missiles.

I would also add two laser turrets for ortillery fire (although both the missile turrets and massdriver have a role there as well) and for point defense against missiles (especially point defense for the ship on the ground where I am not sure how effective a sandcaster would be.) If available to the unit, a plasma or fusion gun turret would be even better than a laser turret.

If your Traveller universe permits mounting smaller weapons (VRF gauss guns, etc.) on the starship as antipersonnel and light antivehicle weapons, I would do that as well.

 

[Omnivore]

While the troops on Omnivore's design may come to the battle by drop capsule, they can't leave the same way. In the absence of small craft, the ship has to go down and act as the retrieval boat; with that in mind, there is no guarantee that the LZ will be peaceful or that the battle will have gone well.

Yeah its a design for followers of Sun Tzu's advice: "Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory."

 

[drkem99]

I see. "On deadly ground, fight."

Remind me not to sign on in your merc unit... :rofl:

 

[Whipsnade]

No, it only made sense before the rules changed.

That's what I wrote. As far as ship combat is concerned the design is badass in a LBB;2/Mayday setting and pathetic in a HG2 one. Things changed so the cruiser can no longer be used as a straight warship, but that doesn't mean the cruiser is worthless.

As for the troop compliment and again as I wrote, the design makes sense IF you use it for specific missions. What missions work in a LBB:2 setting and what missions work in a HG2 setting are different. It's a matter of horses for courses.

Look at LBB:4, a book which predates HG2 naturally. Only two of the six presented merc tickets can be tackled by a Broadsword-based unit and the Abstract Mission Resolution system handles platoon-sized or smaller battles less than a third of the time. It's fairly obvious that GDW didn't intend for the Broadsword and her compliment to be the last or only word in merc transport or merc units even before they "expanded" the setting so complaining that one Broadsword size doesn't fit all makes no sense.

The problem is always, "does it makes sense NOW?"

No. The actual question is "Does the Broadsword make sense in this particular military situation?" and the answer to that question has always depended on the situation in question. One size does not fit all and even before HG2, GDW had outlined more merc tickets in which the Broadsword and her compliment did not make sense than tickets in which the ship did make sense. The use of the Broadsword and her compliment has always been situational. All HG2 did was shift the boundaries of those situations.

IMHO, the suspender snapping situation presented in A:7 has much to blame for this "over application" of the Broadsword and her troop compliment. The idea that a platoon of troops could make an impact during an insurgency on a world of 475 millions was asinine in 1982, is asinine now, and remains asinine no matter what LBB:2 or HG2 is being used.

 

[Whipsnade]

Yeah its a design for followers of Sun Tzu's advice: "Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory."

All your military experience comes from paintball and First Person Shooter games, right?

 

[Dragoner]

While the troops on Omnivore's design may come to the battle by drop capsule, they can't leave the same way. In the absence of small craft, the ship has to go down and act as the retrieval boat; with that in mind, there is no guarantee that the LZ will be peaceful or that the battle will have gone well.

I would reconfigure the armament on Omnivore's design to include at least one massdriver turret; a starship-sized massdriver can provide superb fire support to troops well beyond direct line-of-sight while the ship is on the ground at a higher volume of fire and at less expense than using missiles.

I would also add two laser turrets for ortillery fire (although both the missile turrets and massdriver have a role there as well) and for point defense against missiles (especially point defense for the ship on the ground where I am not sure how effective a sandcaster would be.) If available to the unit, a plasma or fusion gun turret would be even better than a laser turret.

If your Traveller universe permits mounting smaller weapons (VRF gauss guns, etc.) on the starship as antipersonnel and light antivehicle weapons, I would do that as well.

Infantry holds ground, it is primarily a defensive weapon; the primary arm of the Broadsword imo is as a fire support platform, the 8 turrets if divided into half triple lasers for accurate fire and half triple missile for various warhead types. Thus much of your platoon are security for FO's, artillery and artilley from where no counter battery fire can touch it, is one hell of a force multiplier.

 

[Major B]

Infantry holds ground, it is primarily a defensive weapon; the primary arm of the Broadsword imo is as a fire support platform, the 8 turrets if divided into half triple lasers for accurate fire and half triple missile for various warhead types. Thus much of your platoon are security for FO's, artillery and artilley from where no counter battery fire can touch it, is one hell of a force multiplier.

Spoken like an artilleryman. Light Infantry is ideal for attacking in terrain or in situations that don't allow vehicles.

 

[Dragoner]

Spoken like an artilleryman. Light Infantry is ideal for attacking in terrain or in situations that don't allow vehicles.

If you are will to accept higher than normal casualties, otherwise there are few situations that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosive. Ultimately battles are just math and physics, solve the quadratic function for your parabola and put your energy in the grid square. Not that infantry isn't vital, it is still the queen of battle; it is that people often overlook the combined arms effect of the Broadsword combo.

 

[aramis]

Madmike - Travlar's fast-drug allows for Jump to pass in 168 'minutes' of troops' subjective time. I think that the troops could easily spend the '3 hour' trip running through mission briefing documents and simulations (run at 1 frame every second!); they should arrive at the drop-point in at least as good shape as a modern paratrooper.

It also means, tho', that you can't hit them with another dose should they become casualties, can't use Combat Drug on them upon arrival, and can't use medical slow on them, either.

 

[Major B]

If you are will to accept higher than normal casualties, otherwise there are few situations that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosive. Ultimately battles are just math and physics, solve the quadratic function for your parabola and put your energy in the grid square.

This is just a little funny for me because you're still speaking like an artilleryman. It is all of the science without any of the art. But then again I am thinking of real life and not how it is mimiced in the game.

Not that infantry isn't vital, it is still the queen of battle; it is that people often overlook the combined arms effect of the Broadsword combo.

I did not disagree with your second point just the first. This is very true.