Azhanti High Lightning Builders

[Garnfellow]

CT Supplement 5 and Adventure 1 each have an interesting table of all ships in the Azhanti High Lightning and Kinunir classes. One field is for "Builder":

Builder	No. of AHLs Built	No. of Kinunirs Built
AHG, AG	4	-
Arshani, Etran	5	-
Clan Severn	5	4
Commonal	5	-
Delvani	5	-
Gashidda No. 1	4	-
Gashidda No. 2	6	-
Gashidda No. 3	5	-
General	-	4
GSB, AG	-	3
Highlans	5	-
Ling Standard	5	2
Mars	-	2
Tukera, et al	4	-
Vlandian No. 1	4	-
Vlandian No. 2	1	-
Vlandian No. 3	3	-
Yard 11 No. 1	5	-
Yard 16 No. 1	6	-
Yard 16 No. 3	5	-
Yard 16 No. 4	1	-
Yard 17	5	9
Yard 22 No. 1	5	-
Yard 22 No. 2	1	-

In this context, what does "Builder" mean? Some entries appear to be specific locations, others appear to be manufacturers.

 

[aramis]

CT Supplement 5 has an interesting table of all ships of this class. One field is for "Builder":

Builder	No. of AHLs Built
AHG, AG	4
Arshani, Etran	5
Clan Severn	5
Commonal	5
Delvani	5
Gashidda No. 1	4
Gashidda No. 2	6
Gashidda No. 3	5
Highlans	5
Ling Standard	5
Tukera, et al	4
Vlandian No. 1	4
Vlandian No. 2	1
Vlandian No. 3	3
Yard 11 No. 1	5
Yard 16 No. 1	6
Yard 16 No. 3	5
Yard 16 No. 4	1
Yard 17	5
Yard 22 No. 1	5
Yard 22 No. 2	1

In this context, what does "Builder" mean? Some entries appear to be specific locations, others appear to be manufacturers.

Specifically, it's which yard in which those hulls were constructed. The unspecified yards are probably safe to presume IN owned yards.

 

[Garnfellow]

What's the difference between the yards with multiple entries -- like Yard 6 No. 1 and Yard 6 No. 3? Are these one yard with multiple slips, or different yards in the same sector?

 

[Garnfellow]

Has anyone ever been able to explain how the Gashidda yards built all those Azhanti High Lightning-class ships for the Imperium when Gashidda was nearly 50 parsecs inside the Solomani Confederation border?

 

[kilemall]

Has anyone ever been able to explain how the Gashidda yards built all those Azhanti High Lightning-class ships for the Imperium when Gashidda was nearly 50 parsecs inside the Solomani Confederation border?

Hmm, looks like not only an Imperial captured world on the drive to Earth, but a primary occupation force logistical center, with an Imperial Naval Base.

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Gashidda_(world)

So they would be churning out those AHL CruDivs to go to work right on the border.

 

[Garnfellow]

Hmm, looks like not only an Imperial captured world on the drive to Earth, but a primary occupation force logistical center, with an Imperial Naval Base.

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Gashidda_(world)

So they would be churning out those AHL CruDivs to go to work right on the border.

Very unlikely -- that's 1105 data, over 100 years after the end of the Rim War. Although there's no detailed timeline of the War, we know some broad contours, like the starting border was somewhere in Diaspora sector. The first phase was marked by Solomani advances across the Sphere, though they bogged down in Old Expanses. By 993 the borders stabilized until 998 when the Imperium begins a steady march toward Terra. The Vegan District (some 8 parsecs coreward from Gashidda) isn't captured until 1001, and the Battle of Dingir (5 parsecs coreward) isn't until 1002.

While it's certainly possible that the Confederation was riddled with "islands" of Imperial systems throughout the War -- and there are some canonical accounts of Imperial forces trapped behind the lines -- it seems like a stretch that the Confederation would allow a major Imperial producer of cutting edge ships to churn our CruDivs for 10 years only 7 parsecs away from Terra.

Further, Rim of Fire states that "Gashidda strongly supported the Confederation during the Solomani Rim War, and was only captured by the Imperium after a long siege" (103). This echos CT Supplement 10, which has "The Dingir subsector [was] . . . conquered early by Terra, its population is heavily Solomani in sympathy, especially on the old worlds of lilike (Tau Ceti), Shulimik (Epsilon Eridani), and Gashidda" (28), and CT Supplement 11, "In the Dingir subsector pro-Solomani violence continues on Herakles, Fornalhaut, Gashidda, and Sirius" (45).

So while "Fortress Gashidda" is the best explanation I've seen, it's not very compelling.

 

[Silverhawk]

Another (though unsupported) possibility is a corporation named Gashidda with yards located towards the Rim but within Imperial lines. The mention of a scandal involving the AHL cruisers is the only support to this theory.

 

[savage]

Another (though unsupported) possibility is a corporation named Gashidda with yards located towards the Rim but within Imperial lines. The mention of a scandal involving the AHL cruisers is the only support to this theory.

Good point. A corp could have started on Gashidda and splintered between 3I and SC.

 

[Garnfellow]

Good point. A corp could have started on Gashidda and splintered between 3I and SC.

I like it, and I think it can work with canon. Both GURPS Traveller: Rim of Fire and Mongoose Traveller: Solomani Rim have nice, compatible descriptions of Gashidda. Here are some key passages:

• "After a period of cultural and economic malaise as a minor member of the Dingir League, came the ‘new awakening’ under messianic Solomani Movement philosopher Vanthara Noy. The Gashidda Solomani Party promoted planetary industrialisation and also a near-mystical reverence for Terra and Solomani manifest destiny" (MGT Solomani Rim 85).
• "The [Solomani] Movement became very popular among the ordinary citizens, and was linked to an upsurge in Gashiddan nationalism. The result was an electoral 'coup' which deposed the traditional ruling class and put the Solomani Movement in charge. The new government enacted many political and social reforms, and did much to get the sluggish Gashiddan economy going. New shipyard facilities were built and the planet became a major producer of both merchant and combat vessels. By the time the Solomani Confederation was established, Gashidda was a busy and prosperous world, one of the fore-most members of the new interstellar state" (GT:RoF 103).
• "The large starport at the Gashidda island-capital of New Mondulkiri hosts one of the subsector’s largest Imperial Navy bases and an associated Ling-Standard Products shipyard" (MGT Solomani Rim 85).

Although neither source nails down the Gashidda timeline, we can infer some things from a few milestones:

• 582 - The Dingir League joins the Imperium
• 680 - The original Solomani Party comes to elected power on Terra
• 685 - The first all-Solomani Party congress is held on Terra
• 704 - Margaret I signs charter for the Solomani Autonomous Region
• 871 - Solomani Confederation formed
• 940 - Margaret II dissolves the Autonomous Region
• 990 - Start of the Solomani Rim War
• 991 - The very first Azhanti High Lightning is laid down by Gashidda No. 1

Based on this, I would assume that Vanthara Noy probably rose to power in the early 700s, and the Gashidda awakening occurred between 750 and 850. Our theoretical Gashidda Shipyards was probably formed in this period and quickly rises to become an important corporation, enjoying brisk trade both within the Autonomous Region as well as with Imperial worlds in Diaspora and Massilia sectors, where new shipyards are purchased/built. During 850-950 rising Gashiddan nationalism begins to hurt the corporation's business model, forcing the firm to relocate its headquarters to an Imperial system in Diaspora -- maybe Libert or Narquel. In response the Solomani government seizes and nationalizes the shipyards on Gashidda. These facilities are returned to Gashidda Shipyards following the War, but the procurement scandal ruins the firm and they are acquired by Ling-Standard between 1002 and 1050.

 

[mike wightman]

What does Gashidda mean in Vilani?

Could there be Gashidda shipyards on many worlds in much the same way that General Yards has shipbuilding facilities on many named worlds and that at some point the world Gashidda was settled and named by the Vilani?

 

[Garnfellow]

What does Gashidda mean in Vilani?

Could there be Gashidda shipyards on many worlds in much the same way that General Yards has shipbuilding facilities on many named worlds and that at some point the world Gashidda was settled and named by the Vilani?

That's not a bad way to go either, and the only thing going against it is my reading of the "minor procurement scandal" passage in Azhanti High Lightning makes it sound like yard in question was actually located in the Gashidda system, but it's ambiguous at best.

 

[Major B]

Yard locations

I am sure someone, somewhere has worked on locating these yards. Can anyone point me toward any material (published or not, canon or not) that can help me make a similar table for a current project?

If not, which locations can we infer from available published source material?

A couple of thoughts:

1. Since the Kinunir was only fielded in the Marches can we assume that the producing shipyards are all in that sector?

2. I don't have Adventure 1 with me but IIRC the adventure to capture images of the black globe mounting brackets was set on the world where one of the last hulls was scrapped. Can we assume that was where the producing shipyard was located.

3. I also remember a bunch of TAS news clips about General's shipyards and production facilities being attacked by Ine Givar in the leadup to the 5FW. I think one was on Efate but maybe not. Can any of those provide a clue to where General produces ships?

I will see if I can do some searching tonight but thought I would post this in case someone has the source materials more readily available.

 

[mike wightman]

Regina, the Kinunir class derelict is in the General Shipyards on Regina.

Now since the Kinunir class is TL15 that means the General Shipyards are TL15, despite being on a TL10 (retconned to 12) world. Four Kinunir class vessels were assembled at the General Shipyards on Regina, although the fourth, the Addar Dubsar was scrapped prior to completion and is the ship the adventure to gather black globe data is set on.
Two were built by Ling Standard
Two were built by Mars shipyard (another example of a company taking the name of a world?)
Three were built by GSB AG
Four were built by Clan Severn
Yard 17 built the most, six in total.

The TAS news items are likely to be the in universe report of the actions of the PC team hired to do the adventure - the patron may well have hired more than one team until he got the data required.

 

[Major B]

Regina, the Kinunir class derelict is in the General Shipyards on Regina.

That's it. Thanks for backing up my faulty memory.

The TAS news items are likely to be the in universe report of the actions of the PC team hired to do the adventure - the patron may well have hired more than one team until he got the data required.

No, the ones I remember may be from 5th Frontier War or maybe Spinward Marches Campaign and had to do with drop tanks. And I think there were some related ones in JTAS from the buildup to war time period.

I'll see what I can find when I get home.

 

[mike wightman]

This is the one I thought you meant:

REGINA/REGINA (0310 - A788899 - A) Date:224-1105
General Shipyards has reported 276 confirmed break-ins of its scrapyard
at Regina during the last six months and is considering instituting a "take a
number" system.

The drop tanks ones are a brilliant adventure seed that never made it to a printed adventure (I based my last proto-Traveller mini-series on it). JTAS 2-6
Basically General Shipyards is going to construct drop tanks for Tukera ships in the SM so they can enjoy the same performance parameters of the ships used in the core sectors for the past few decades (there's a bit of canon that was totally missed by future authors - routine use of drop tanks by civilian shipping in the Imperial core sectors including a jump 6 drop tank x-boat system).
The manufacturing centre sufferes sabotage by 'Ine Givar'. IMHO either the Ine Givar are linked to Oberlindes in some way or the Ine Givar had nothing to do with it and it was Oberlindes agents).
I think this ties in with the destruction of the merchantship Bloodwell (something she survived IMTU thanks to some clever PC trickery and the sacrifice of a shuttle).
Unfortunately one of the Tukera ships using drop tanks in the SM suffers an accident (or if you prefer outright sabotage by Oberlindes agents) and puts a halt to the drop tank program - a year or so later the FFW kicks off and the plotline is moot.

 

[Whipsnade]

That's not a bad way to go either, and the only thing going against it is my reading of the "minor procurement scandal" passage in Azhanti High Lightning makes it sound like yard in question was actually located in the Gashidda system, but it's ambiguous at best.

The scandal is specifically said to occur postwar when components from scrapped ships were used for ship completed after the war. That weak weaselly dodge, however, would only account for Cause Rampant which was laid down on 360-1002 at Gashidda #2 and (a big maybe) Sylean Observer laid down on 087-1002 at Gashidda #1.

In a bit of further weak weaseling, the scandal involved procurement and not construction. Five damaged AHLs were scrapped and the scandal involved components from those ships. Could the vessels have been scrapped postwar at Gashidda? And the components in question procured, rather than used, there?

As for all the other Gashidda yards listed, none of Bethlehem Steel's many shipyards were in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Of course, all of those are in-game excuses and pretty poor ones too. I suspect the real reason the AHL booklet lists all those Gashidda yards is that it was published in 1980 and the Solomani Rim supplement didn't come out until 1982.

When they wrote that AHL list, they most likely didn't know exactly where Gashidda was...

 

[Barrel]

"Two were built by Mars shipyard (another example of a company taking the name of a world?)"

Or the company is named after an obscure Solomani mythological being.

 

[mike wightman]

Yup, no different to Ares Industries and the like. Nike is called Nike for a reason.

Companies have all sorts of reasons for brand identification - naming a shipyard that specialises in warships after an obscure Solomani god of war would fit.

 

[robject]

I don't know what gashidda means. Hmmm. What could it mean, in the context of a corporate shipyard?

 

[aramis]

I don't know what gashidda means. Hmmm. What could it mean, in the context of a corporate shipyard?

Possibly "welders' shop"