Bad Wolf class Vargr Corsair...

[far-trader]

I say Navigator, you say Astrogator, let's call the whole thing...

...off

Which Corsair ship has a boat? None of the ones that have been detailed. How big a percentage of all Corsair ships they constitute is a question.

Which Corsair ship ought to have a boat? All of them.

True enough. And I would have put a boat aboard the Bad Wolf but for the budget. Note the 20 ton cargo space could accommodate a nice little gig Or one might carry some external craft and/or booty in place of the drop tanks (up to 100dtons).

Of course then we get into the whole discussion of how piracy works, if small craft are combat viable, etc., etc., etc.

But back to the skill discussion...

Astrogator. Corsair ships (and every other jump-capable ship) need astrogators. Just why every Traveller incarnation has insisted on confusing astrogation with navigation is a complete mystery to me.

Also true, but for the point already addressed that some rules do differentiate. Naturally this being for CT I stuck with the term there, that's the only reason in this case. FWIW the way I think of "Navigation" in Traveller is as "Astrogation" with the ability to apply it to terrestrial stellar navigation, once you've localized yourself.

Because Astrogation was not a commonly used word in 1977... it was around, having been used in a 1957 movie and novel... the C-57D has an astrogator unit.

It became popular in the mid 1980's, IIRC.

A perfectly sound explanation I think Thanks.

...Certainly I'd never allow someone with surface navigation skill to plot a starship course.

Just curious, what of the other way around, the way I've long seen it in CT as noted above? That is someone with (starship) Navigation being able to apply that to terrestrial stellar navigation? It's been a standard in a sci-fi for some ages that those who navigate between the stars are not entirely lost on the surface of a world as long as they can see the stars. Not that it shouldn't be without limits but it has always seemed reasonable to me within certain bounds.

 

[far-trader]

Meet the Pack

Pilot "Lone Wolf" - UPP 6A6A86 - Male - 4 Terms - 33 years old

2 terms Loner, 1 term Corsair, 1 term adventuring

Lone Wolf, as he goes by for raiding human space, was an outcast, by choice. He always preferred solitude and started his life as a solo prospector in a salvaged Seeker he kept flying by luck and hope.

That luck and hope ran out after a few years and he found himself rescued by "Bad Wolf" and adopted into his Corsair pack, as their own luck charm. And it has been lucky, for himself and the pack. And he's not so much a lone wolf anymore except in name having found a pack he feels part of and liking it.

Skills - Pilot - 3, Jack-O-Trades - 1, VaccSuit - 1, Navigation - 2, SMG - 2, Revolver - 1

Gear - Cr20,000, SMG Special, Revolver Special

Created (not rolled except initial stats) with CT Vargr rules.*

* except for changing the Rank skill for Corsair Lieutenant from Ship's Boat (which Corsair ship has a boat - none) to Navigation (which Corsair needs a navigator - all - and the skill isn't on the Corsair lists )

 

[far-trader]

Really Bad Wolf

Just a first quick rough form of the ship. Somehow it doesn't quite look like 300dtons beside my Cutter so I'm gonna have to recount the squares :nonono:

And I'm not too sure about the way it's going either

When I started laying it out I may have had a Canidmorphic(?) meme in mind. I've done other "creature" ships, some good some not. If I ever find the Shark multiKton destroyer in my scribbles I might post that, it was cool.

Along the way in SketchUp I kept making it more and more so in this rough draft, and it kept feeling wronger and wronger. So I stopped. I think I've already gone too far, and that's just the work on the head. A mouth and teeth? what was I thinking? o:

So I'm kind of curious, what say you all? Is there any redeeming quality in it? Should I pursue the wolf look further? Or go back to the merely hinted at wolf shape? Explaining it (as a big bad wolf) is easy enough, but I'm not sure it's good in any esthetic sense.

 

[rancke]

Also true, but for the point already addressed that some rules do differentiate. Naturally this being for CT I stuck with the term there, that's the only reason in this case.

Oh sure. My remark was just a gratuious dig at a very minor bit of Traveller lore that has always annoyed me, nothing more. And pure matter of opinion to boot.

Just curious, what of the other way around, the way I've long seen it in CT as noted above? That is someone with (starship) Navigation being able to apply that to terrestrial stellar navigation? It's been a standard in a sci-fi for some ages that those who navigate between the stars are not entirely lost on the surface of a world as long as they can see the stars. Not that it shouldn't be without limits but it has always seemed reasonable to me within certain bounds.

Oh, that I'd allow. As you say, it's perfectly reasonable. I just don't like sailors learning to astrogate while scuttling around on their planetary surfaces.

In my own house rules (somewhat reminiscent of GURPS), Astrogation would cost more points to learn than Navigation, but default to Navigation at 5/6th (i.e. if you had Astrogation-18, you'd effectively have Navigation-15 too) whereas Navigation wouldn't default to Astrogation at all (No help with jumpspace calculations).


Hans

 

[coliver988]

...So I'm kind of curious, what say you all? Is there any redeeming quality in it? Should I pursue the wolf look further? Or go back to the merely hinted at wolf shape? Explaining it (as a big bad wolf) is easy enough, but I'm not sure it's good in any esthetic sense.

I like it as a basic form - once you add some rounding and widgets. I'd probably drop the teeth, and the odd thought came up if you re-arrange the internals, you could make the mouth a loading ramp so the mouth actually opens into a cargo bay, complete with the loading ramp tongue. Then keep the teeth as lights or anti-hijacking lasers.

And who is to say the aesthetic values of Vargr? Seeing a 300dT wolf charging at me may make me hesitate a bit. Or just add those fangy wings they like so much as well (perhaps the tail!)

 

[far-trader]

Thanks coliver, helpful comments

...the odd thought came up if you re-arrange the internals, you could make the mouth a loading ramp so the mouth actually opens into a cargo bay, complete with the loading ramp tongue.

I'd actually started with that idea but the internals laid out differently. Then when doing the 3D it started looking like maybe I could put the ramp in, but from the airlock, through the "throat", where the ramp runs up to the computer. Just have an option to swing it down. That'd be handy too I think, and will work without rearranging things. I'll probably work that in.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

I agree with coliver...

It would look fine with more rounding and sloping of the edges.

As for Navigator, the skill may be Astrogation, but in MTU the Title is still Navigator.

 

[rancke]

And who is to say the aesthetic values of Vargr? Seeing a 300dT wolf charging at me may make me hesitate a bit. Or just add those fangy wings they like so much as well (perhaps the tail!)

ISTR that AM3 and AR2 both had something to say about the aesthetic values of Vargr. Something about lots of fins and spiky bits and garish color schemes.

What puzzled me more was why a Vargr would name his ships in Anglic. Unles that's his native language, and even then I would think that he'd consider the effect on his brother corsairs. So I would have expected the ship to be named something like Ash Gnash (or whatever 'Bad Wolf' translates into in Gvegh).


Hans

 

[rancke]

As for Navigator, the skill may be Astrogation, but in MTU the Title is still Navigator.

And in the OTU too. From one end of Charted Space to the other. But IMTU the Imperial Navy uses 'Astrogator' (And astrogators are more important in the chain of command than pilots ). Much more fitting and suitable, IMO.



Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Well of course.

And in the OTU too. From one end of Charted Space to the other. But IMTU the Imperial Navy uses 'Astrogator' (And astrogators are more important in the chain of command than pilots ). Much more fitting and suitable, IMO.

Hans

Of course the Navigator is far more important to the well being of the ship than a Pilot, so I too would put them higher in the chain of command. Just don't tell the Pilots, they think they are just the best thing since self-slicing bread.

 

[far-trader]

ISTR that AM3 and AR2 both had something to say about the aesthetic values of Vargr. Something about lots of fins and spiky bits and garish color schemes.

Yep, and I'd hoped to apply that to this ship (might still ) but I started the way I usually do, with a simple bubble layout of the functions and gross sizes and then boxed it in to arrive where I did. It early on started looking like a "doggy!" (Freefall comic reference) and I could hardly help myself

What puzzled me more was why a Vargr would name his ships in Anglic. Unles that's his native language, and even then I would think that he'd consider the effect on his brother corsairs. So I would have expected the ship to be named something like Ash Gnash (or whatever 'Bad Wolf' translates into in Gvegh).

In this case the in game reason is "to shake the confidence and sow fear in our prey" (they aren't likely to fluent in Gvegh ).

The meta game reason is I didn't feel like finding the Gvegh translation (but I thank you muchly for it ) or Vargr randomizing the crew names. So a story of "Anglic" handles was inserted.

 

[far-trader]

And in the OTU too. From one end of Charted Space to the other. But IMTU the Imperial Navy uses 'Astrogator' (And astrogators are more important in the chain of command than pilots ). Much more fitting and suitable, IMO.



Hans

Of course the Navigator is far more important to the well being of the ship than a Pilot, so I too would put them higher in the chain of command. Just don't tell the Pilots, they think they are just the best thing since self-slicing bread.

Thirded, and carried

Aboard starships Astrogators (my favorite tag for them as well since it was introduced) are much more vital and should be higher ranked than any other bridge position save Command. Pilots are almost as big a waste of a control couch as Gunners

On a side note why Pilots get the big salary I don't know. Same for why Stewards get a bigger paycheck than the Medics. I know who I'd want to pay better, between making my bed and a meal or stopping the bleeding. Yes, Stewards may be much more than a galley maid, but still.

 

[samuelvss]

So I'm kind of curious, what say you all? Is there any redeeming quality in it?

Sorry, but it screams "Transformers meet snapping turtle" to me.

The head is not bad, with or without teeth, but the body suggests a body...the wrong one, badly.

Maybe the head motif on a really abstract, spikey body?

I like the large head/loading ramp idea.

 

[rancke]

In this case the in game reason is "to shake the confidence and sow fear in our prey" (they aren't likely to fluent in Gvegh ).

And you think "Bad Wolf" is likely to sow fear and shake confidences? The first thing that leapt into my mind when I saw that name was "No biscuit!".

The meta game reason is I didn't feel like finding the Gvegh translation (but I thank you muchly for it ) or Vargr randomizing the crew names. So a story of "Anglic" handles was inserted.

You did get that I made up that name (well... not exactly made up... )?


Hans

 

[rancke]

Sorry, but it screams "Transformers meet snapping turtle" to me.

The head is not bad, with or without teeth, but the body suggests a body...the wrong one, badly.

As if the name should be Lame Duck? (With that big bite taken out of its left wing, it has to be lame .

(No offense intended, Dan).


Hans

 

[rancke]

Aboard starships Astrogators (my favorite tag for them as well since it was introduced) are much more vital and should be higher ranked than any other bridge position save Command.

In my Imperial Navy there's hardly any difference. All Command officers must know astrogation. I do have an equivalent of Age of Sail warrant officers (called courtesy officers), and an equivalent of the ship's Master called (of course) the Astrogator, but he's pretty high up in the chain of command too. Subordinate to all Command officers regardless of rank, of course, and to non-command officers of lieutenant commander's rank, but higher than all lieutenants of the non-command departments.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Sorry, but it screams "Transformers meet snapping turtle" to me.

The head is not bad, with or without teeth, but the body suggests a body...the wrong one, badly.

Yeah, same vibe here. Heh, teenage mutant wolf turtles. I tried a few things with the rest of the body, not much and nothing really worked. I do kind of like the head though...

Maybe the head motif on a really abstract, spikey body?

Maybe...

And you think "Bad Wolf" is likely to sow fear and shake confidences? The first thing that leapt into my mind when I saw that name was "No biscuit!".

:rofl:

Well, a Vargr who caught Dr. Who (obviously where I borrowed it) might...

You did get that I made up that name (well... not exactly made up... )?

Yep (but it saved me doing it, for the moment at least... )

As if the name should be Lame Duck? (With that big bite taken out of its left wing, it has to be lame .

(No offense intended, Dan).

None taken Hans (insert smiley and curse the limit). I thought the pic was obvious (and maybe it is and you're just having sport with it), the missing bite is where one drop tank is absent, the other side is to show it filled in. It would never fly in that configuration of course. Well, not usually...

 

[coliver988]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuelvss
Sorry, but it screams "Transformers meet snapping turtle" to me.

The head is not bad, with or without teeth, but the body suggests a body...the wrong one, badly.

Yeah, same vibe here. Heh, teenage mutant wolf turtles. I tried a few things with the rest of the body, not much and nothing really worked. I do kind of like the head though...

Now that you mention it, more like Power Rangers in one of their 45 or so incarnations.
[/FONT]

 

[far-trader]

Take two...

...keep the comments coming

Just a quick and dirty more "vargr" treatment of the Bad Wolf. Mostly just changing the fuel tankage, engineering gets a split level treatment. The drop tank I'm thinking would be ventrally mounted in the center between the fuel scoops and perhaps shaped as third "claw" possibly made for ramming and dropping (ramming just sounds so fun and Corsair desperate)

Dorsal view:

Ventral view:

Still not sure the tonnage is right, been too lazy to work it out yet

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Now that is a Vargr Corsair!

Much better Far-Trader, much, it really looks like a Vargr Corsair now, and I'd go with a third fin, more fins, more Vargr fun.