Battledress varients

[lightsenshi]

I'd like to go ahead and toss out the link for where I designed the battledress used by the Velde Protectorate. I don't know if it's the same as anything posed previously (I hadn't looked).
Battledress as the first

 

[veltyen]

G'day Lightsenshi,

A couple of suggestions for your battledress. It might be worth listing the hours available at maximum boost (ie fusion + fully charged battery at Ag5) as well as battery life on maximum boost, and battery life on drudge(Ag0). You might also think of attaching a sheild (heavy ballistic or tower ballistic) for that final 35+ AC, or a permanent cover save from anything that cannot ignore your armor anyway. Lastly the rules for sensor systems are a little bit of a dogs breakfast. The rules in the book don't seem to make a lot of sense, a bit more straightforward is just to multiply the differences through, which is what was used for TA3/TA6. Choose to flavor.

Noone has posted any other designs as yet. IMTU it counts as a "medium TL15 superman suit" and a pretty good design on its own merits.

 

[lightsenshi]

There actually isn't a power plant at all. The suit as designed has a sixty hour (two and a half day) combat duration.

There is, however, plenty of room for a small power plant (most likely fusion). Which can easily be added, of course.

 

[veltyen]

I should have looked closer, I would have sworn it had a small fusion plant

my bad.

Having a closer look it is remarkably similar to what I tend to design. The design spec is pretty much the same. Differences of note:

++ I tend not to include computer gear (autopilot/targetting computer) as part of the suit. Personal taste, but I've never been completely sure how I would handle a pc using a targetting computer, so I've never bothered to add one to my designs.
++ I tend to use tjonselo's base for visual gear, so it is much larger and power hungry, hence it tends to be shorter ranged to compensate.
++ Arms tend to be max dex rather then adequate dex.
++ Drive systems tend to be matched in power requirements, and agility is based off only using one or the other, especially for a superman suit it will also be airframe (which also adds to legs speed).
++ Depending on purpose it may have a fusion powerplant, this tends to be a size to recharge the batteries rather then solo usage.
++ Neural activity scanners tend to be dropped for cost, command suits, incursion suits but not general suits.
++ Radio tends to be long range (5000km+) as it is cheap in both size, power and money.
++ At TL15 the "general" battledress tends to be 250 rather then 300. This also adds to AC, as well as making the suit better in human sized enclosed spaces. Difficult to do at TL13 and also hit all the requirements.
++ I might include a sheild, mainly because I like the imagry. It also goes with the maximising survivability/armor specification.

The spec:
Max armor
Decent but not fantastic speed
Str 20+ arms with adequate+ dex
Enhanced feedback
Chameleon
Sophont space sized (200-400 VL)
Large battery loadout
Human equivalent or better senses (visual, olfactory, auditory)
LI+IR spectrum choices for visual imaging
Usable range of days at minimum

 

[jappel]

Actually Laser coms works well on a battlefield. If you don't have line of sight, unusual within an Infantry Platoon or smaller unit, you can point the laser at a comms satelite or a battlefield orbiting drone and it can do your broadcasting or relay the laser signals to the rest of the unit. (Probably Company level or higher.)

With all due respect, Bhoins, this does not match operational reality in many instances. Think in terms of close terrain - jungles, urban areas, etc. It also won't work for units which operate with any kind of meaningful dispersal, unless you're going to have relay stations all over the place.

I'll admit I was a scout, not an infantryman, but I can tell you that LOS-dependent comms won't work for recon folks, nor realistically for highly mobile forces (think grav armor).

Orbiting drones will only work if the other side lacks adequate air defense capability, and satellites are going to be a problem in so many circumstances (let's start with overhead cover) that they aren't a realistic alternative either. Note I'm talking about LOS-dependent comms here.

With that, I'll stop hijacking the thread, though I'll be happy to continue the discussion in separately from the main topic (battle dress).

Speaking of which, I was just inspired to dig up a copy of the Famille Spofulam Winter '97 catalog (you can find it in the archives section of the BITS website. On page 60 of the PDF you'll find BD-WIMPS, or BattleDress-Weapon, Integrated Multi-Purpose System. It's a complete weapons package designed to be integrated into battledress a la Starship Troopers. Quoting from the catalog, it includes "a high-powered 12mm full-auto chemical slugthrower, a 33.3mm HE/SEFOP grenade launcher, a backpack napalm dispenser, a chemical weapon dispensing system capable of handling anything from Blur to advanced neurotoxins... and a 0.1 kiloton rocket-propelled fission warhead." Yowsers! (Stats are in T4 terms as it was designed using FF&S2, but shouldn't be too hard to convert.) IMHO, integrated weapons (even modular ones) are something often overlooked in BD design. This covers that gap, and then some.

John

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
Actually, I'd recommend using batteries if you're designing battledress. They're very small in size (even smaller than fusion) but cost more.

OK I went back and revisited batteries. At TL-14 they are a good choice. Now if I had a nice clean format I would post it here.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by jappel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Actually Laser coms works well on a battlefield. If you don't have line of sight, unusual within an Infantry Platoon or smaller unit, you can point the laser at a comms satelite or a battlefield orbiting drone and it can do your broadcasting or relay the laser signals to the rest of the unit. (Probably Company level or higher.)

With all due respect, Bhoins, this does not match operational reality in many instances. Think in terms of close terrain - jungles, urban areas, etc. It also won't work for units which operate with any kind of meaningful dispersal, unless you're going to have relay stations all over the place.

I'll admit I was a scout, not an infantryman, but I can tell you that LOS-dependent comms won't work for recon folks, nor realistically for highly mobile forces (think grav armor).

Orbiting drones will only work if the other side lacks adequate air defense capability, and satellites are going to be a problem in so many circumstances (let's start with overhead cover) that they aren't a realistic alternative either. Note I'm talking about LOS-dependent comms here.

With that, I'll stop hijacking the thread, though I'll be happy to continue the discussion in separately from the main topic (battle dress).

Speaking of which, I was just inspired to dig up a copy of the Famille Spofulam Winter '97 catalog (you can find it in the archives section of the BITS website. On page 60 of the PDF you'll find BD-WIMPS, or BattleDress-Weapon, Integrated Multi-Purpose System. It's a complete weapons package designed to be integrated into battledress a la Starship Troopers. Quoting from the catalog, it includes "a high-powered 12mm full-auto chemical slugthrower, a 33.3mm HE/SEFOP grenade launcher, a backpack napalm dispenser, a chemical weapon dispensing system capable of handling anything from Blur to advanced neurotoxins... and a 0.1 kiloton rocket-propelled fission warhead." Yowsers! (Stats are in T4 terms as it was designed using FF&S2, but shouldn't be too hard to convert.) IMHO, integrated weapons (even modular ones) are something often overlooked in BD design. This covers that gap, and then some.

John </font>[/QUOTE]Actually in most cases, you are in LOS with people of your team and a member of your team will be in LOS with a member of the other team. One member of the Squad will probably be in LOS with the other squads. Now there are rare cases and obscure circumstances when this won't be the case but in most cases you are in LOS of someone else. It is the nature of infantry maneuvering to maintain LOS with your unit.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Roughneck Battledress Variant
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Class: Augmented Armor EP Output: 12 (4.895 excess)
Cost: Cr111,815.2 Agility: 4 (4.8EP)
Tech Level 13 Initiative: +4
Size: Large (300vl) AC:24 (+10 Armor, +4 Agility, +1 Camo, -1 Size)
Streamlining: Standard AR:10
Pressurized: Yes SI:25
Climate Control: Yes Visual: Holovideo (1KM), IR (1KM), LI (1KM)
Drive Train 1: Legged (2)
Drive Train 2: Grav Sensors: Auditory (50m), Tactile
Crew: 1
Passengers: 0 Comm: 2 Way Radio: 5KM
Cargo Space: 6.46vl
Fuel: 21.6vl
Range: 36 Hours

Speed (Legs)
Acceleration: 1KPH
Off Road: 7.5kph Very Slow: 1KPH Slow: 2.5KPH
Cruising Speed: 5KPH Fast: 7.5KPH Max: 10KPH

Speed (Grav)
Acceleration: 32KPH Very Slow: 32KPH Slow: 80KPH
Cruising: 160KPH Fast: 240KPH Max: 320KPH

Other Equipment: 2x Appendages (Str 20/+5, Dex 10/+0)</pre>[/QUOTE]This is a modification of the "Standard Battledress" from the THB. Adding Grav and cutting endurance. (And adding Camo)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Marine BattleDress
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Class: Augmented Armor EP Output: 12.469 EP/hour
Cost: Cr170,704.36 Agility: 4 (3.984EP/HR)
Tech Level: 14 Initiative: +4
Size: Medium (249vl) AC:30 (+14 Armor, +4 Agility, +2 Camo)
Streamlining: Standard AR:14
Pressurized: Yes SI:25
Climate Control: Yes Visual: Holovideo (1KM), IR (1KM), LI (1KM)
Drive Train 1: Legged (2)
Drive Train 2: Grav Sensors: Auditory (50m), Enhanced Tactile
Crew: 1 Neutrino (5KM)
Passengers: 0 Comm: 2 Way Radio: 5KM, Laser Com: 5KM
Cargo Space: 12.9936vl
Battery: 598.512EP
Range: 48 Hours

Speed (Legs)
Acceleration: 2KPH
Off Road: 15kph Very Slow: 2KPH Slow: 5KPH
Cruising Speed: 10KPH Fast: 15KPH Max: 20KPH

Speed (Grav)
Acceleration: 32KPH Very Slow: 32KPH Slow: 80KPH
Cruising: 160KPH Fast: 240KPH Max: 320KPH

Other Equipment: 2x Appendages (Str 20/+5, Dex 14/+2)</pre>[/QUOTE]This is my current Marine Battledress. I was thinking about adding weapons, but I like flexibility. The EP output is sufficeint to run both drive trains at once for the full 48 hours. (So you can go from grav to ground mode without having to worry about switching power routing.)

 

[Straybow]

I think that designing BD as a vehicle is not an effective model. Engineering a walker-type vehicle is very different from engineering a powered exoskeleton that fits and moves conformably to the limbs and joints of the occupant. It isn't just a single "drive train" but multiple independent drive trains and controls requiring cutting-edge miniaturization and workmanship.

Quoting myself in part from Marines Without Battledress post#85:

[Unpowered] exoskeletal framing for knees and elbows can easily be incorporated into various grades of hard armor. Protecting those joints from hyperextension and lateral buckling can be as important as armor itself in hand-to-hand combat.

Simple framing for hips and shoulders restricts motion. Full-movement, load-bearing framing for hips and shoulders gets expensive and somewhat bulky.

The next step is adding a power plant and joint motors. What little I've seen of vehicle-type rules don't cut it. Making a mecha with legs is not the same as making power assist that fits around limbs and allows easy entry/exit. We can imagine clever technologies such as memory metal wire "tendons" and phase-change pistons that simplify implementation, allow redundancy, etc.

Again, this can be limited to the knees and elbows for a low-cost solution. Adding one-degree-of-freedom power stabilization to shoulders and hips makes an intermediate stage. Multiple-DoF shoulder and hip power gets expensive. Full implementation on an exoskeletal frame including fingers gets prohibitively expensive.

I would model this by levying a fixed cost for each joint-DoF, treating fingers as singly jointed and single-DoF assuming memory metal tendons or similar implementation. Single-DoF stabilization-only for hip or shoulder could be done at half cost, but rotational DoF for hip or shoulder costs double.

Some savings can be found by coupling the three non-trigger fingers to a single motor, locking out ankle rotation, and coupling foot-toe-flexure to ankle-flexure or locking it entirely.

Then we come to controls. Generic controls that respond to limb movement are the low-end solution. Personal controls that respond to sensors applied to muscle groups to allow fine motor control are the high-end solution. A mixed solution allowing fine control for arms only is a compromise.

At present, I can see that the knee + elbow ± stabilization type power will add to the physical strength of the individual. Without hip/shoulder stabilization I'd limit it to +2 points for CT or T20. With stabilization I'd limit it to +3 for CT and +4 for T20.

Elbow power alone does not enhance endurance. Knee power removes endurance costs for walking and running entirely and doubles combat endurance.

Fully powered movement will assume all loading and greatly exceed muscle power of the individual. I'd treat as STR 20+ CT or STR 25+ T20.