Beowulf size?

[Trent]

I keep hearing a lot of stuff about what size a beowulf should be and how most blueprints get them too big.

Um, has anyone ever calculated the size of a beowulf? I tried to make a few guesses based on the data in GT and got some results like this:

A beowulf is 200 dtons. A dton is just about 500 cf, so 200 dtons of volume is 100,000cf.

A cube encompassing this volume would be about 47 feet and change on a side.

A rectangular form of this volume would be like 80x50x25 feet.

So, given that a bey isn't a regular shape, I could easily see one being over 100 feet long and still being "only" 200 dtons. (BTW, I know that some of you out there are howling in agony every time I use non metric measurements. It actually gives me some sadistic glee, considering how intolerant the metric types have been to other types of measurements...:rofl

 

[leo knight]

(BTW, I know that some of you out there are howling in agony every time I use non metric measurements. It actually gives me some sadistic glee, considering how intolerant the metric types have been to other types of measurements...

)

As a fellow Luddite, I heartily aprove. Carry on sir!

 

[Mithras]

Hey, feet are for shoes ... not for measuring

 

[Gadrin]

It's fairly big, assuming this is accurate you can see by the size
of the figure underneath it's scale...

In GURPS Traveller a turret can hold 6 tons IIRC, this thing's a
flying hotel, as it holds 68 tons of cargo + 10 staterooms.

GURPS has it at Size Mod +8, which puts it at ~45 yards long

.

>

 

[Trent]

Hey, feet are for shoes ... not for measuring

Meters are for determining your electricity bill.

 

[Beech]

I can work out the o/a volume from the model I built of the Achilleus (below) as my modelling program gives the volumetric properties, for instance if it was 45 yards/40 metres long it would be approx 244050 cf (488 dtons on Trent's reckoning) which seems way too large.
It really does not add up, the shape just has so many unusable areas it really increases the volume out of proportion.
Dan's (far trader's) deck plans are by far the best and most well thought out for one of these so I would use his sizes if in doubt.

 

[szurkey]

----------

 

[far-trader]

I think even with my much reduced size Beowulf* there's still far too much unused awkward space to be taken up by fuel. It's still oversized but going any smaller just doesn't allow the accepted interior volume and external look to be done close to the way it's been imagined.

* about the size Beech has modeled, and so about twice the displacement it should be, that's a lot of extra volume to "explain"

And I also used the advantage of knocking off a few dtons of less than useful space by using the old mini for inspiration. In that the area at the aft, lower hull half is largely open behind the scoop "wings" except for the center drive section. I'm not sure if Beech's model does that or not.

It might be close (for Book 2 fuel volumes) if the scoop "wings" were considered partly empty. For later rules with far less fuel you just can't find space to put all the extra tonnage unless you consider it liquid cargo and/or fuel purifiers*

* which I usually put in, low tech bulky ones

All imo and based largely on off the cuff eyeball estimates for volumes beyond that mapped out.

 

[Trent]

I think even with my much reduced size Beowulf* there's still far too much unused awkward space to be taken up by fuel. It's still oversized but going any smaller just doesn't allow the accepted interior volume and external look to be done close to the way it's been imagined.

* about the size Beech has modeled, and so about twice the displacement it should be, that's a lot of extra volume to "explain"

And I also used the advantage of knocking off a few dtons of less than useful space by using the old mini for inspiration. In that the area at the aft, lower hull half is largely open behind the scoop "wings" except for the center drive section. I'm not sure if Beech's model does that or not.

It might be close (for Book 2 fuel volumes) if the scoop "wings" were considered partly empty. For later rules with far less fuel you just can't find space to put all the extra tonnage unless you consider it liquid cargo and/or fuel purifiers*

* which I usually put in, low tech bulky ones

All imo and based largely on off the cuff eyeball estimates for volumes beyond that mapped out.

"Unusable" space beyond that needed for fuel could be used by machinery that was designed and built to occupy it.

"But you couldn't get to the machinery to maintain or repair it!" I hear some people bellowing. Yo, guls, that's what external access panels are for...

 

[Trent]

As for "the shape just has so many unusable areas," clearly ignores the most applicable use of those spaces, FUEL! I guess if a deckplan was to be done correctly, you would add up all those "unusable" spaces for fuel first, and then see how much additional space you need for fuel.

Doesn't a beowulf only have to use 10% of it's volume for fuel for a jump 1?

 

[Swiftbrook]

I keep hearing a lot of stuff about what size a beowulf should be and how most blueprints get them too big.

Um, has anyone ever calculated the size of a beowulf?

Using the blueprints from MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual Vol. 1 (there never was a Vol. 2 ... too bad) and being very pesimistic (low) on my calculation I find the following:

Deck 1: 128 square = 64 dtons
Deck 2: 406 square = 203 dtons
Deck 3: 242 square = 121 dtons

Grand total 388 dtons. So the plans are about 94% too big.

The plans in this thread
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=18309
are much smaller and a better plan.

-Swiftbrook

 

[rancke]

Using the blueprints from MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual Vol. 1 (there never was a Vol. 2 ... too bad) and being very pesimistic (low) on my calculation I find the following:

Deck 1: 128 square = 64 dtons
Deck 2: 406 square = 203 dtons
Deck 3: 242 square = 121 dtons

Grand total 388 dtons. So the plans are about 94% too big.

Sounds like those deckplans should be renamed and used for a 400T ship. Maybe it even actually uses ~40 squares for the bridge.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Sounds like those deckplans should be renamed and used for a 400T ship. Maybe it even actually uses ~40 squares for the bridge.

About 20 depending how you count them, but the control couches are about 1.5m square. That "giant" standing on the hull of the crashed Beowulf in another thread is about the right size for them and the 3m (10 foot for you stubborn folk ) long beds :smirk:

It's really a square scale issue as much as anything (apparently). The simple "fix" is ignore the 1.5m scale and treat the squares as 1.0m for much more reasonably useful plans closer to 200tons. There's still problems of course... keeping the deck heights results in a stubby bloated Beowulf... the cargo hold is grossly undersized... and I forget what else.

 

[leo knight]

Hey, feet are for shoes ... not for measuring

If they were good enough for ancient Rome, they're good enough for me!
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_weights_and_measures
Now I'll have to start using one passus squares...

 

[rancke]

About 20 depending how you count them, but the control couches are about 1.5m square. That "giant" standing on the hull of the crashed Beowulf in another thread is about the right size for them and the 3m long beds.

That giant would be within the acceptable limit for human growth, right? Especially if an Ancient tinkered with them to make them bigger? So mayby it's a hitherto nondescript minor human race? They got hold of the blueprints for a Beowulf and built one in their own size.

(And just to ensure maximum confusion, they named their ship the Beowulf too.)

Hey, it could happen...



Hans

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Mine is ~11m x 20m x 37m.

http://www.traveller3d.com/pics/beo-top-side.png

 

[BlackBat242]

That giant would be within the acceptable limit for human growth, right? Especially if an Ancient tinkered with them to make them bigger? So mayby it's a hitherto nondescript minor human race? They got hold of the blueprints for a Beowulf and built one in their own size.

(And just to ensure maximum confusion, they named their ship the Beowulf too.)

Hey, it could happen...



Hans

Heavyworlders... a-la Anne McCaffrey.

Genetically modded humans for high-G worlds.


I have a set of rules for building ships for them, as they run* 7' - 8'6" (2.1m - 2.6m) & 280lb - 380 lb (128kg - 173kg) for males (females slightly smaller), the standard ship won't work too well for them.
*norms, unusual individuals may be larger/smaller



The standard 3m high deck includes both actual room/passage height and inter-deck space for floor/ceiling plating, structural members, and plumbing/wiring/ducting.

I assume about .5m (19.7") for the inter-deck space and 2.5m (8' 2.4") for the actual room/passage height. Alternately, .4m (16") and 2.6m (8'6") could be used.



Thus, heavyworlders need more headroom, and this is achieved by having 1.75 grid squares (of 1.5m x 1.5m) equal 1 ton (14m3). This means that the deck is 3.5m (2.667 squares), with .5m (19.7") inter-deck space and 3m (9' 10") room/passage height.

The inter-deck space cannot be reduced like in a standard design, because the normal gravity setting on a heavy-worlder ship is between 1.5G & 2G, thus more powerful (and larger) grav plates are needed.

 

[rancke]

Heavyworlders... a-la Anne McCaffrey.

Genetically modded humans for high-G worlds.

I favor the view that heavy-worlders would be short and squat, not larger with the same proportions as ordinary humans.


Hans

 

[aramis]

I favor the view that heavy-worlders would be short and squat, not larger with the same proportions as ordinary humans.


Hans

McCaffrey's are taller and proportionally broader and thicker. Think Size of Andre the Giant, with the proportional bulk of John Rhys Davies, and the musculature of Arnold Schwartzenegger as Conan.

 

[rancke]

McCaffrey's are taller and proportionally broader and thicker. Think Size of Andre the Giant, with the proportional bulk of John Rhys Davies, and the musculature of Arnold Schwartzenegger as Conan.

It was my impression that the oversized figure in the drawing Dan was talking about was proportionate to a normal human being, just ~3m tall (Since he is, as I understand it, a mis-scaled normal human being).


Hans