Blade-1

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

OK, agreed that blade weapons a) cause fewer law-level problems and b) are safe[r] to use onboard spacecraft.

But again, I'm not convinced - in a universe where people have discovered how to exploit "jump space", surely they can come up with better weapons to be used aboard spacecraft than clubs and knives. (Uh, remember the gunfight scene in Hunt for Red October?)

I just watched Dune last night and am reminded of the knife fight between Paul Atreides and Feyd Rautha: clearly they've learned knife fighting as part of their aristocratic education, and the knife fight itself has everything to do with honor, challenge and cultural milieu.

-FCS

 

[Mår Ekkertsen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>FlightCommanderSolitude:...not convinced - in a universe where people have discovered...clearly they've learned knife fighting as part of their aristocratic education, and the knife fight itself has everything to do with honor, challenge and cultural milieu.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So we have nobles sorting things out with ritual violence. Long history here of ritual violence as a means of culturally controlling agression and power.

We have the great cinema of Imperial Marines hacking and slashing during boarding. Can't we all imagine the visual effect and how that would affect those who might otherwise resist.

 

[Gallowglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FlightCommanderSolitude:
OK, agreed that blade weapons a) cause fewer law-level problems and b) are safe[r] to use onboard spacecraft.

But again, I'm not convinced - in a universe where people have discovered how to exploit "jump space", surely they can come up with better weapons to be used aboard spacecraft than clubs and knives. (Uh, remember the gunfight scene in Hunt for Red October?)

I just watched Dune last night and am reminded of the knife fight between Paul Atreides and Feyd Rautha: clearly they've learned knife fighting as part of their aristocratic education, and the knife fight itself has everything to do with honor, challenge and cultural milieu.

-FCS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Dune there is also the fact that outsid eof certain velocity parameters, a physical projectile / blow will NOT penetrate the personal shields (and a Lasgun will fuse and kill both the firer AND the target and most bystanders in a small thermonuclear explosion...).

I don't let PC's take any archaic melee weapons unless they have VERY good justifications, but I do think daggers and blades are likely to be a VERY common combat option, for reasons already aired here.

 

[Clay Bush]

Police officers are trained that a knifeman within 20 ft can kill them before they make up their mind to shoot.)

This is true. Training often involves a "red gun" (TM), a plastic replica which is weighted just right for the model simulated. The armed officer starts with his weapon holstered. The assailant can usually start seated and still reach the armed officer before the weapon is drawn, armed, and aimed.

I did it, and I'm not very fit.

I think knives are fairly common planetside. I think swords only make sense in boarding actions and ceremonial settings. Even for ceremonial use, however, the GURPS books specify that Imperial nobility use magnum revolvers for ceremonial weapons.

 

[Mår Ekkertsen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>by Clay Bush:the GURPS books specify that Imperial nobility use magnum revolvers for ceremonial weapons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does? Where? Man.
Is it only IMTU where the rapier is the weapon of the nobility? Time to pull out all the LBB stuff. This ancient one is starting to loose what came o' the and what came out o' the skulls o' the folks he played/plays with.

 

[DrSkull]

In T4, both dueling swords and magnum revolvers were Noble weapons. In Emperor's Arsenal it talks about the Magnum revolver as a Noble ceremonial weapon, and Dulinor prooved that it still was one in 1116. But, I think in the Mileu 0 sourcebook there's mention of nobles having a sword-dueling tradition. So, it is both (an one could easily carry both too).

------------------
Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[Tsarith DeGaalth]

Originally posted by hunter:
[*] They don't puncture hulls or domes
[*] They don't ricochet
[*] They don't possibly destroy the computer/jump controls/etc if you miss your intended target...

These are the big LOGICAL reasons but the real reasons is Genre:
-Kimball Kinneson and his space marines used blades
-Flandry got in at least one sword fight
-Kirk and Spock got it on with polearms, plus they fought klingons with swords once (remember Scotty finding the Claymore? or Sulu going postal with the epee?)
-Star Wars - Obi Wan vs Vader

Science Fiction, especially the stuff from the fifties and sixties was replete with blades.

Besides, what kind of pirate does fence

 

[Secrect Cow Level]

Swords work in the OTU because it can be assumed that the Villani have maintained a dueling tradition over the centuries. Combined with the fact that broadswords don't puncture the hull you have a justifiable reason to include their use in play.
Has anyone ever tried to incorporate powered melee weapons in their games? I haven't yet but I am considering it. It seems logical that a society that uses swords and foils would also develop powered versions of these weapons to make them more effective.

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Has anyone ever tried to incorporate powered melee weapons in their games? I haven't yet but I am considering it. It seems logical that a society that uses swords and foils would also develop powered versions of these weapons to make them more effective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I don't think I have ever seen anything in Traveller on powered melee weapons as such.

Me personally I like the idea of monofilament blades. Cut through armor like a hot knife through butter (hulls too though...). Ok granted, it's not powered but still...

Hunter


[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 04 July 2001).]

 

[GypsyComet]

A *really* old article in Space Gamer (issue #18, IIRC) had rules for Niven's Variable Sword, while a similarly old issue of White Dwarf (#11) had the Plasma Blade...

 

[Artikid]

I used powered melee weapons:
Stats:

Vibro/powered melee weapons
TL10, +2 dm to hit +1d of damage, same required str but an additional required dex of 6 to avoid a -2dm. Cost +500 cr to base cost of weapon +50 cr battery good for 50 cbt rounds. This can be applied to blades, clubs and fist (powered glove)
For powered clubs the idea is that of stun-clubs (temporary only dmg).

Monofilar weapon (blades only) TL 8, +1 dm, +200 cr cost, can be cumulated with Powered weapon.

I also came up with something on neural weapons (melee and ranged) for CT...

I like the idea of melee weapons as "weapons of honor" besides the (all too true)Tech/Law-lvl and starship-boarding problems.

 

[MJD]

Blades are useful at close quarters, allowed in places that guns are not, make decent tools and don't jam. (Refrains from quoting Ripper Jack Scratchard). That makes Blades and Daggers make sense. As to swords and such, well. I'm a fencing instructor so I'm biased but as late as 1943 General Belov's cossaks brought horses can sabres to a gunfight and kicked some butt. In close, someone going postal with a blade has certain psychological and actual advantages. Lots of reasons to have blades, then. And I like them. But most of the time I'd be reaching for the twin gauss pistols. Or the ACR.....

 

[FIIKLFO]

Geez, guys! ENOUGH already!

How about THIS!

"Why would anyone WANT to use a pointed stick in Traveller?"

"Pointed STICK? But what if he's holding a BANANA--or a POMEGRANATE?

"I tried kiwi fruit in my campaign once. It was not pretty. They were easy to camoflage, but I could never could get them to match with Marine uniforms...And as they say:'An apple a day keeps the Solomani away.'

The reason to have blades is: THEY WORK!

The reason to have large blades is: THEY WORK! (They may simply be more difficult to hide.

As long as creatures have claws, humans will have blades.

(You in the BACK! Yes,YOU! Wake up!)

 

[Shadow Bear]

Blades are silent.
They do not run out of ammunition/power.
They can be hidden more easily then guns.
They can be made more easily then guns.
They can be used for other things than combat.
They can be stuck on the end of guns.

 

[StrikerFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow Bear:
Blades are silent.
They do not run out of ammunition/power.
They can be hidden more easily then guns.
They can be made more easily then guns.
They can be used for other things than combat.
They can be stuck on the end of guns.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And in some cases (Striker broadswords and battleaxes), they have more penetration than any readily available guns. I once had a character chase an NPC through a ship with his battleaxe, because both characters were in combat armor and the weapons they had had less penetration than the axe did.

StrikerFan

 

[jawillroy]

IMpTU, There's blades and blades, and a lot of it is traditional.

My navvies and Marines love their cutlasses.
My troopers love their daggers and bayonets.
My scouts stick to daggers, but whatever they learn to use in the field that works is fine by them.
My merchants have a traditional penchant for the classic Blade, even if they're too fat and old to actually ever think of drawing the thing.

I don't have just one monolithic empire, so there's more noble traditions: some like their swords, some like their ancient heirloom revolvers, some like poison, and they all hire proxies.

 

[Plankowner]

In the original Star Wars hehday, I created an "Energy Sword" that did Laser Carbine damage and required the Blade Weapon skill. At TL 15 it was a Laser Rifle damage.

Monofilament and Vibro weapons would also be in use at mid tech levels.

As an interested side note.

Where in the rules does it specifically address hull penetration with small arms? What about door/wall penetration? If the rules don't mention guns penetrating walls, then why a blade? Richochets are fine, but again, that must be houseruled.

Striker or AHL or Snapshot may have addressed these issues, but I am pretty sure the CT never did directly.

 

[far-trader]

...Striker or AHL or Snapshot may have addressed these issues, but I am pretty sure the CT never did directly.

I think it was covered in an LBB Adventure or Supplement...

...yep, Supplement 7

Interior walls: 100 points of damage with an energy weapon or explosive, 1000 points of damage from a slug thrower, to make a manhole through it.

So it seems they will penetrate, emergy weapons and explosives with more retained lethality than slug throwers.

Bulkheads: 1000 points of damage with an energy weapon or explosive to make a manhole through it, slug throwers are ineffective.

And here slugs won't penetrate (richochet maybe) but energy and explosives may.

Hull: No rules, but seems implied that personal weapons and small explosives are ineffective.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I'd put blade weapons in the slug thrower category but they may tend to break or dull before getting through, unless it was an energy blade in which case it'd go as an energy weapon and won't break or dull.

 

[Plankowner]

So 1000 points of damage to make a hole about 2 square meters in size, that means each point of damage should create a hole about 20 square centimeters...

Call it a hole 2.5 cm in radius, or about 2 inches in diameter...

Seems like an awfully big hole for 1 point of damage though.

BUT, I can see what it is relative and what I am trying to do isn't really actual physical damage. Say 1 point of damage can cause system failure in an area 2 inches in diameter. Seems like wimpy walls, but maybe if you gave them armor???

 

[Colin]

Blade-1, eh? Would that make him a Blade-oner? <ducks>

What can I say, it's Punday...