Blue Heron Down

[rancke]

"Norris, with some slight evidence that his warrant was on Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the planet), led a secret expedition to that interdicted world to recover the document." [The Spinward Marches Campaign, p. 16]​

So how did that cruiser wind up on Algine and what happened next?

Imperial light cruiser Blue Heron [Name made up, not canon], carrying an Imperial Household courier bringing an Imperial warrant to Norris, jumps to Algine because it's a convenient place on its route to refuel. Arriving at gas giant P4, it refuels and continues on its way...

OK, so are we talking misjump? With slagged drives Blue Heron arrives at the solar jump limit of Algine's G9 V star and remains there while its crew is evacuated. Naturally the captain gives priority to his passenger and his precious charge, getting him away on the first available ship. Meanwhile, the Blue Heron drifts in deep space, far away from Algine...

Hm... With slagged drives the Blue Heron arrives at the solar jump limit of Algine's G9 V star. By the blackest of black luck it is aimed straight at Algine and no ship in range has the size to alter its vector in time. In the hours before she reaches Algine, as many as possible are evacuated. Naturally the captain gives priority to his passenger, getting him away on the first boat that leaves the ship...

The Blue Heron arrives at the solar jump limit. The captain desperately aims her for Algine and attempts to bring her down on the surface because reasons. Before that, he sends off the ship's boats carrying as many as possible, especially the courier...

Is there an epidemic aboard? Is that why no one is allowed to leave the ship? Is the courier dead?

Anyone have any ideas?


Hans

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

The Heron arrives in Algine system, and proceeds into orbit over the planet (because reasons. courtesy call to system command?). Imperial warrant is kept in secure vault, separate form the courier who is about the ship normally (dining with the officers, etc).

while about to enter orbit, catastrophic engine failure occurs. ship is still on a collision course with the planet, and everybody abandons ship in double quick time.

Imperial courier is bundled into an escape pod by ratings trying to save the stupid landlubber, and is unable to retrieve the warrant.

once the wreck crashes, political intrigue form the duchess or Mora and/or her supporters prevent either the courier or Norris being allowed down to the wreck to reclaim the warrant.

 

[mike wightman]

I always thought the story of Norris's warrant quest was a tie in to A1, in much the same way that A3 allows for the advanced warning of the Zhodani fleet. It's a shame that more PC actions can't have a far reaching effect on the setting like the Twilight's Peak early warning.

 

[rancke]

I always thought the story of Norris's warrant quest was a tie in to A1, in much the same way that A3 allows for the advanced warning of the Zhodani fleet.

Yes, a lot of people thought that, including the writers of The Regency Sourcebook. :nonono:

Loren says that he may have been the source of that mistake. Someone woke him up at a convention and asked him if the warrant on the Kinunir and Norris' warrant were one and the same, and Loren sleepily replied, "Sure, why not?" or words to that effect.

The thing is, apart from the evidence in SMC, there's the point that if it really had been the same warrant, all Norris would have had to do was to take the blank warrant¹ out of the drawer he had put it in, fill in the blanks, and take over on 188-1107.

¹ A blank Imperial warrant! How utterly ridiculous. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:​

Hans

 

[mike wightman]

That supposes that the events of the Kinunir adventure culminate in a group of PCs capturing the derelict ship.
A alternative outcome is the computer uses the PCs to refuel and then jumps - to Algine

This is where the final confrontation ends with the Kinunir down on Algine and the PCs stranded on an interdicted world.

The story of Norris petitioning the Emperor, a warrant being sent, being lost en-route and then evidence to its existence turning up is just as preposterous.

How long does it take for Norris to realise the battle strategy is flawed? Has he petitioned the Emperor pre-war? If not the time it take to get there and back is suspender snapping.

In SMC the timeline has Norris taken ill, is that supposed to be when he sets off on his warrant quest? I didn't thing FTL comms existed in the OTU, or prescience for that matter

The main reason the Kinunir story fails is the blank warrant on board such a garbage scow. But what if the OTU designation of battle cruiser allowed us to retcon the Kinunir to a large ship universe design rather than demote it to less than escort destroyer size?

A major Imperial warship may well occasionally carry a blank warrant so the ship captain can assume command of the civilian authority in times of need just as easily as it could allow the civilian authority to issue commands to the military.

Marc put the warrant in the Kinunir for a purpose, and at the time the class was capable of holding off an entire Zhodani fleet at the battle of the two suns - I want to keep that historical tidbit, not remove it because the Kinunir class couldn't possibly do such a thing.

 

[McPerth]

How long does it take for Norris to realise the battle strategy is flawed? Has he petitioned the Emperor pre-war? If not the time it take to get there and back is suspender snapping.

In the Early Adventures, the characters witness the arrival of Norris petition to the Emperor (though they cannot realice its importance). IIRC, date is 1105, so petition must be earlier than that date...

 

[Dulinor]

For those of you who can read french, there's an adventure on this very subject here.

 

[mike wightman]

It's not in Early Adventures, it's in Digest 11ish (the one that details Capital and the rebellion heralding the arrival of MT), thus it is a DGP plot not a GDW one.

When Traveller was taken back in house for TNE the story changes again. So which canon do you want to believe in?

Just for once I wish Marc would answer questions about the plots running through early CT adventures. Or better yet use T5 to give definitive answers.

I do like Hans' adventure, IMTU I would tie in the Kinunir, but I long ago accepted the OTU retconning of the Kinunir into obscurity rather than the battle cruiser it was intended to be.

If only they had reconned the AHL as the new Kinunir class when the switch was made to a large ship universe.

 

[rancke]

That supposes that the events of the Kinunir adventure culminate in a group of PCs capturing the derelict ship.
A alternative outcome is the computer uses the PCs to refuel and then jumps - to Algine

This is where the final confrontation ends with the Kinunir down on Algine and the PCs stranded on an interdicted world.

This overlooks the inherent problems with the two warrants being the same.

The story of Norris petitioning the Emperor, a warrant being sent, being lost en-route and then evidence to its existence turning up is just as preposterous.

How long does it take for Norris to realise the battle strategy is flawed? Has he petitioned the Emperor pre-war? If not the time it take to get there and back is suspender snapping.

He had, indeed, petitioned the Emperor pre-war. This is mentioned in SMC (p. 11). Also, in TD9 we see Strephon watching Norris' message. I can't find my copy ATM, but IIRC it's some time in 1104 or 05. This is, of course, also canon.

As for inconclusive evidence, there's no way a starship crashes on Algine without being observed by the Scout picket. If anyone gets out alive, they might tell of carrying an Imperial messenger although not what he was carrying. Thus Norris hears about an Imperial messenger and can guess that he must have been carrying his warrant, but he can't be sure.

There, did that mend you belief suspenders?

In SMC the timeline has Norris taken ill, is that supposed to be when he sets off on his warrant quest? I didn't thing FTL comms existed in the OTU, or prescience for that matter

Yes, it is, and none is needed.

The main reason the Kinunir story fails is the blank warrant on board such a garbage scow. But what if the OTU designation of battle cruiser allowed us to retcon the Kinunir to a large ship universe design rather than demote it to less than escort destroyer size?

Sure, why not?

A major Imperial warship may well occasionally carry a blank warrant so the ship captain can assume command of the civilian authority in times of need just as easily as it could allow the civilian authority to issue commands to the military.

Actually, that's what the Imperial high nobles are for. But assuming for purposes of argument that the captain of an IN starship was given a warrant, one, captains, for the use of, it wouldn't be a blank warrant -- it would be issued to to the named captain of the ship or (just conceivable) the unnamed OC of the ship. And it would not enable him to outrank the local high nobles.

Marc put the warrant in the Kinunir for a purpose, and at the time the class was capable of holding off an entire Zhodani fleet at the battle of the two suns - I want to keep that historical tidbit, not remove it because the Kinunir class couldn't possibly do such a thing.

That's not why I want to remove it. I want to remove it because it is a) contrary to canon and b) inherently inconsistent.

And on that note, I don't mind going a bit out along a tangent, but allow me to point out that my OP assumes that the information held in authorial voice in SMC is correct.


Hans

 

[AlanMN]

Back in the late 80's I used the basic info for an adventure. The Players were troubleshooters (ex-Scouts, ex-Imp Naval Intel) and were tasked with getting the Imperial Warrant to Duke Norris. First they had to find where the ship went down. They also had to contend with Vargr raiders and a Naval Intelligence team sent by an admiral who was a rival of the Duke.

They succeed and after the FF5 war was rewarded with Knighthoods.

 

[mike wightman]

Ok, tangent aside I will concentrate on the adventure as presented (which is a pretty good idea by the way).

Is there the possibility of a Delphine or Santanocheev mole amongst the crew of the courier cruiser? Could they play a part in attempting to delay the arrival of the warrant (Delphine is a sector duke, I can't believe she doesn't have agents at court).

Why do the forces manning the interdiction of Algine not lend assistance to a stricken IN cruiser, or do the interdiction forces play a part in bringing down the cruiser?

The Blue Heron jumps to Algine, the interdiction forces offer it every courtesy but the mole on board gets a message to the ONI officer, who then orchestrates a clandestine boarding of the Blue Heron.

The Blue Heron evacuates it's crew and passengers as suggested, but an awful lot of them have to use vacc suit re-entry kits since the small craft of the cruiser can not accommodate the entire crew.

The courier is hidden within this scattering of personel, with orders to lay low until an authorised contact turns up. In extremis they are under orders to destroy the warrant.
I'm going to assume here that Imperial couriers are the best of the best with regards to special forces training.

I'm an idiot.

The blank warrants are decoys, worthless unvalidated scrap paper, but no one knows which courier was sent with the real one.

Hence Norris finds out the warrant should have arrived when a courier gets through, but the missing real warrant is still out there somewhere. Hence the trek to Algine when rumours of the ONI assault on an IN cruiser surface.

Norris and his team have to find an Imperial courier who wants to remain hidden, while a cat an mouse game is played with ONI forces also searching for him/her.

 

[Carlobrand]

... when rumours of the ONI assault on an IN cruiser surface. ...

Wait, what???

The problem with the Algine scenario in general is the ship has no business being there. It's hard to imagine a route to Regina in which Algine's a good stopover. Why not use Yurst's gas giant? Why not grab fuel at Treece? Why not travel via the base at Inthe and then through Yori? For that matter, why bother going to the Algine mainworld at all when there's a GG for refueling?

The ONI angle makes me wonder. If these guys are so good that they know an Imperial Warrant is on the way AND have the resources to intercept and disable the ship that carries it, then why are they so bad in the war effort? It's hard to reconcile the difference without starting to spin conspiracy theories. Maybe they were deliberately bad during the war. Maybe they'd been infiltrated by Zho agents who were undermining them and doing what was necessary to make sure the infiltrated agency remained the main intelligence arm for the navy - including keeping an ear at the Imperial court and making trouble for the ship that carries the warrant.

In that case, Algine may be a good stopover for one reason: there's a known concentration of Imperial ships there. Of course, Paya and Inthe remain better choices for that, but if the captain of Blue Heron has become aware that there are Zho agents infiltrated into the Navy trying to stop him, he may be leery of the bases as they may harbor more Zho agents - including officers who may use rank to interfere with his mission or agents who may conduct sabotage while he's in port. Odds of Zho agents infiltrating a Scout Service protective interdict are lower - at least, it would seem they'd be less interested in infiltrating a Scout protective cordon than in infiltrating a naval base.

So, the Emperor issues the warrant. Blue Heron proceeds with the warrant. It's classified - they don't know what they have, just that they have to deliver something or someone to Duke Norris at Regina. At some point or points, with some person or persons at the visited starports/bases attempting sabotage and the courier dying mysteriously, the captain realizes there's an organized effort to derail his mission. He takes his ship "off the grid," hoping to evade the effort by avoiding bases and major ports, instead fueling at gas giants and E-port water worlds while ordering intensified security aboard the ship. Unfortunately, the war starts and, being off the grid, he's poorly positioned to learn of it. At Focaline, he's shocked to encounter and fight a Zho raider, a light cruiser. One lone (and thankfully not suicidal) unknown agent is still among the crew, and the captain dies suddenly in the middle of the battle, a victim of a psi assault. The ship nonetheless emerges victorious, though damaged. The XO's choices are to jump for the nearest naval base - and run the risk of Zho agents there - or jump for Algine and hope the Scouts' interdict force is still there and can give him some up-to-date intelligence, and maybe some help. His decision is made in part by the fact that there remains an unidentified agent on his ship: he does not trust the bases and gambles that the scouts have not been similarly infiltrated.

He arrives at Algine with jury-rigged repairs failing and the crew's morale low; someone among them is a Zho agent with skill to kill with his mind, and paranoia is rampant. As the ship heads for orbit, a hidden routine in the computer activates and the ship thunders toward Algine before the engineering team shuts down the maneuver drives, but attitude control is still locked out and there is little chance of bypassing the lockout before the ship hits atmosphere. The XO orders the ship abandoned. In the midst of the evacuation, the agent strikes again, trying to get the warrant from the safe (he'd taken the safe combination from the courier's mind before killing him). He is stopped and killed by an alert security team, but not before the XO is killed. With no one left alive who knows the safe codes, the remaining crew abandon the ship and are picked up by the Scout force while the ship with its secret document enters atmosphere and crashes into one of the world's oceans.

(Yes, Algine is 60% water-covered. Odds favor the ship crashing into a water body. Norris must not only make the surface, but must do so with equipment suited to searching out and boarding an undersea wreck.)

 

[rancke]

Is there the possibility of a Delphine or Santanocheev mole amongst the crew of the courier cruiser? Could they play a part in attempting to delay the arrival of the warrant (Delphine is a sector duke, I can't believe she doesn't have agents at court).

And with her own private couriers too :devil:.

It's possible, but I'd rather not go that way.

Why do the forces manning the interdiction of Algine not lend assistance to a stricken IN cruiser, or do the interdiction forces play a part in bringing down the cruiser?

The Scouts' top priority would be to protect the natives of Algine from outside interference. But I can't see why they wouldn't want to evacuate survivors. After all, Imperial Sapient's Burden ("We have to help them, they're fellow Imperials!") aside, people with ultra-tech knowledge rescued/captured by locals would be potentially very disrupting.

Once all the survivors are off planet again, the Scouts would almost certainly try to prevent any salvage operations, anything that involved putting boots on the ground.

The blank warrants are decoys, worthless unvalidated scrap paper, but no one knows which courier was sent with the real one.

An ingenious idea.

Hence Norris finds out the warrant should have arrived when a courier gets through, but the missing real warrant is still out there somewhere. Hence the trek to Algine when rumours of the ONI assault on an IN cruiser surface.

I find it a stretch that Delphine's spymaster on Capital should, on his own initiative, have ordered a covert operation to sabotage an IN ship. I flat out don't believe in an overt attack on an IN ship by ONI agents, especially under the eyes of a Scout squadron.


Hans

 

[salochin999]

I don't know the background to this very well so maybe not consistent but if Norris wants a warrant then maybe someone doesn't want him to get it?

Zhodani intelligence could probably have a lot of fun with an Imperial warrant and a Norris replicant.

 

[rancke]

I think I'm going to have to go with the misjump. I'd rather not, because I think misjumps are getting overused as plot elements, but if the Heron isn't misjumping, it would appear in the Algine system at the outer gas giant P4, adding many hours to the trip to Algine's surface. And at least it answers any questions about why it's jumping to Regina via Algine.

The other day I got an idea from an incident in Alistair McLean's Ice Station Zebra (I don't want to be accused of plagiarism ).

When the Heron jumps, a misjump causes an explosion in the jump drive, killing several people and starting a fire in the engine room, right next to the main life support system. The fire proves impossible to put out, and the smoke strains the remaining life support past the breaking point. When the Heron is precipitated out at the solar jump limit, the situation is desperate.

The Scout interdiction squadron is comprised of small ships in the 400-800T range. These ships can only accept a fraction of the Heron's crew without overburdening their own life support systems. The Navy picket can accept some more, but not all. The only place in the system where the rest can survive is on the surface of Algine, so the Heron sets a course for that world.

(One of the dead people is the Imperial Messenger. No evacuation for him.)

The plan, reluctantly agreed to by the Scout commander, is to land on an uninhabited island, disembark all but a skeleton crew, get the Heron back up in orbit, and evacuate the skeleton crew. The shipwrecked crewmembers down on the surface can then be picked up when sufficient assets has been summoned.

Unfortunately, the explosion caused some structural damage to the maneuver drive and going at full emergency power puts too much strain on it. Partway to the surface the drive fails.

The next question is where the Heron actually hits and how hard it hits. What happens to the hull? What happens to the crew? Ideally (in terms of plot possibilities), the ship hits hard enough to crack into pieces but soft enough for a few survivors. I don't quite see how that can happen, though. How much of an impact does it take to crack a TL15 armored hull? I suspect that I'm going to have to choose between smashed cruiser and survivors.


Hans

 

[Travellerspud]

or they land near one of the poles, such that the ice cushions the landing before breaking, then re-freezes to cover the crash-site scar so the locals will not see it. The crew evacuates to the surface and establishes an "Ice Station Zebra" (far from the prying eyes of the locals) to wait it out until a liner can arrive to take them all off.

So Norris then has to land, get through the ice, swim down to the sunken ship, recover the warrant, etc. Then make it back off planet.

(at least that is what first came to my mind when I read "Ice Station Zebra")

:devil:

 

[mike wightman]

Why does the interdiction team not do anything at all?

Mayday, this is INS Blue Heron, we have an Imperial courier on board, we are crash landing and require assistance.

This isn't Star Trek, there is no prime directive, but you do have a very important ship. I can not see the interdiction team standing by (how do we know it is a scout interdiction and not IN interdiction - don's say Behind the Claw).

Does the ship crash pre-FFW or after the declaration of hostilities?

 

[rancke]

(at least that is what first came to my mind when I read "Ice Station Zebra")

The incident I have in mind is the fire aboard the submarine.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Why does the interdiction team not do anything at all?

It does what it can; there's just not a lot it can do. What did you have in mind?

Mayday, this is INS Blue Heron, we have an Imperial courier on board, we are crash landing and require assistance.

Hence the need for the messenger to be killed prior to that.

This isn't Star Trek, there is no prime directive, but you do have a very important ship. I can not see the interdiction team standing by (how do we know it is a scout interdiction and not IN interdiction - don's say Behind the Claw).

It's an interdict to protect a primitive population. That's a Scout concern.

Does the ship crash pre-FFW or after the declaration of hostilities?

Timing requires it be before. Norris embarks on his expedition on 212-1107, only 25 days after the war breaks out.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

Algine - X766977 4

Algine/Regina (0803.X7669774). This world is interdicted. A naval task force
(perhaps a Kinunir class battlecruiser and several Gazelle class close escorts) will not
allow landing on Algine and are uncommunicative as to the reason for the interdiction.
They will allow refuelling by skimming the local gas giant. (A3 Twilight's Peak)

It's a naval interdiction.

What else do we know about Algine from canon?