Book of Vile Darkness, pt 2
- Thread starter kafka47
- Start date
I agree Marc's code for regular Traveller adventures.
But, there is more to the Dark than what is indicated in the code. There ought to be a set of adventures that indulge in the understanding of the Dark to better illuminate the light.
Anyway, let us presuppose the Book of Vile Darkness is a runaway success. Do you not think it is time to revise the code to allow for a more darker Traveller to emerge?
But, there is more to the Dark than what is indicated in the code. There ought to be a set of adventures that indulge in the understanding of the Dark to better illuminate the light.
Anyway, let us presuppose the Book of Vile Darkness is a runaway success. Do you not think it is time to revise the code to allow for a more darker Traveller to emerge?
You can always run a "darker" campaign on your own, that's a given. I personally think a "darker" Traveller that doesn't rely on sex, vulgarity, and excessive violence would be tough - not impossible, but tough. Of course, I am not much of one for the dark side. Personally, I think that this "dark" fad is just that, a fad, and it will go the way of techno-punk (if that's the proper term). And no offense to the TNE folks, but wasn't that whole Emperor assassination, Imperium plunged into chaos, the Virus destroys computers stuff kinda a "proto-dabble" into a "darker" Traveller? Maybe I missed the point there. The foundations of Traveller have withstood the test of time, likely beyond that of what the games' creators postulated, my vote would be to stick with those foundations. Of course, I guess you would expect that from an old Classic Traveller guy like myself.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
i have to agree with far scout 275 - Traveller has been "clean" for over 25 years- it hasent "fallen" to fads - its pages have always been white and clean - go dark and all of a sudden the pages are getting "dingy" could that be a sign of decay??......
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
Traveller won't ever go dark as far as that type of things go. Marc would never allow it, and I agree with him there. Nudity, sexually provocative images, gratuitous violence or gore, and vulgar language are not what make something 'dark' (IMO). Dark is a state of mind, a sense of fear, a presence of 'evil' that does not necessarily have to be vividly on display to create the proper mood.
Dark topics such as drug use, exploitation and other subjects may be touched upon in official Traveller products but will done in such as way as to place the players in the position of stopping, preventing or otherwise interfering with such activities rather than as the ones perpetrating the deeds. Looking at the human condition is one of the concepts behind what Traveller is about, and sometimes that condition is pretty bleak and frankly disgusting. Reasoned treatment on how that is portrayed and handled so that something good comes out of thing is the goal.
Hunter
justacaveman
SOC-12
IMTU the only darker aspect is that the Imperium is quite expansionist and will use covert means to bring nonaligned systems and others into the Imperium. It rarely resorts to outright invasion, as such means would cause it's enemies to band against it.
While the Imperium wants everbody to be under it's rule, it is a rather loose rule designed to promote trade between worlds and prevent wars that would affect trade.
There is a greater emphasis on cybernetics and bioengineering as tools of the ruling nobility, otherwise it is a canon universe.
That's dark enough for me.
While the Imperium wants everbody to be under it's rule, it is a rather loose rule designed to promote trade between worlds and prevent wars that would affect trade.
There is a greater emphasis on cybernetics and bioengineering as tools of the ruling nobility, otherwise it is a canon universe.
That's dark enough for me.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Dark topics such as drug use, exploitation and other subjects may be touched upon in official Traveller products but will done in such as way as to place the players in the position of stopping, preventing or otherwise interfering with such activities rather than as the ones perpetrating the deeds. Looking at the human condition is one of the concepts behind what Traveller is about, and sometimes that condition is pretty bleak and frankly disgusting. Reasoned treatment on how that is portrayed and handled so that something good comes out of thing is the goal.
Hunter
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And the GM who Gives in to the "dark side" (Gee sounds like a Jedi lecture --somebody hit me!)isn't presenting anything positive to his/her players. You want dark? Watch the news. Plenty of dark out there, enough to make a sane man nauseous, why proliferate dark as something worthy to be played?
For me, it Boils down to belief in absolutes at times. Good and Evil. Opposing the one over the other, making the difference in a World(or in Traveller) where man's inhumanity to man (or another species) goes by every day, so that one becomes inured to it.
Those who stand up, and stand for something will be remembered far longer than the latest serial killer/ exploiter of women (or aliens, as the case maybe)/ etc.
To take to task the TNE folks (of which I am proudly one of btw) for the "Dark" with Virus, etc, is a cop out lad. The Final war wasn't pretty. Hard Times by Charles Ganmnnon showed that there were consequences to the High and mighty's duking it out--the people of the Imperium were (to quote Duke Craig of Daibei) what mattered.
And there were penalties for playing the bad guys--karma rules. Who wanted to be a ripper? None of my peers and players did. They wanted to render some poetic justice to the scum (or to quote Pulp Fiction-"Get medieval on that @ss!").
The misery of the collapse in TNE, I used to show the players THEY and their efforts could make a difference, not be swept aside by the deus ex-machina of Virus. Sure, they were out to make a credit. But they saved people's lives, out in the Dark.
Now the "5-year dark" is nearing a close, and MJD, HUnter and company are paving the way.
Let's Roll, and make something of it, shall we?
Hunter
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And the GM who Gives in to the "dark side" (Gee sounds like a Jedi lecture --somebody hit me!)isn't presenting anything positive to his/her players. You want dark? Watch the news. Plenty of dark out there, enough to make a sane man nauseous, why proliferate dark as something worthy to be played?
For me, it Boils down to belief in absolutes at times. Good and Evil. Opposing the one over the other, making the difference in a World(or in Traveller) where man's inhumanity to man (or another species) goes by every day, so that one becomes inured to it.
Those who stand up, and stand for something will be remembered far longer than the latest serial killer/ exploiter of women (or aliens, as the case maybe)/ etc.
To take to task the TNE folks (of which I am proudly one of btw) for the "Dark" with Virus, etc, is a cop out lad. The Final war wasn't pretty. Hard Times by Charles Ganmnnon showed that there were consequences to the High and mighty's duking it out--the people of the Imperium were (to quote Duke Craig of Daibei) what mattered.
And there were penalties for playing the bad guys--karma rules. Who wanted to be a ripper? None of my peers and players did. They wanted to render some poetic justice to the scum (or to quote Pulp Fiction-"Get medieval on that @ss!").
The misery of the collapse in TNE, I used to show the players THEY and their efforts could make a difference, not be swept aside by the deus ex-machina of Virus. Sure, they were out to make a credit. But they saved people's lives, out in the Dark.
Now the "5-year dark" is nearing a close, and MJD, HUnter and company are paving the way.
Let's Roll, and make something of it, shall we?
At any rate, there are plenty of other systems if "The Dark" is what you are looking for. Call of Cthulhu certainly covers madness and pure evil, while Cyberpunk 2020 has all the urban decay a GM could ever need. Traveller does not have to cover every single gaming flavor or mood.
I have a personal reason for wanting Traveller to stay "clean." When my parents decided that D&D was evil (back in the early '80s), I was able to continue playing Traveller by demonstrating the lack of magic in the system. Traveller is the only reason that I could remain a gamer, and I would hate for it to degenerate in any fashion.
I have a personal reason for wanting Traveller to stay "clean." When my parents decided that D&D was evil (back in the early '80s), I was able to continue playing Traveller by demonstrating the lack of magic in the system. Traveller is the only reason that I could remain a gamer, and I would hate for it to degenerate in any fashion.
The dark side of the human psyche fascinates me, but as has been said, flirting with the darkness within should lead one to the light. I did an adventure based on 8mm once (snuff movies), who needs cthulhu esque being when you have the true horror of what lurks in human hearts. Darkness might be seductive but its ultimately destructive and unsatisfying. Sometimes players need a little wake up call.
Sometimes the world needs a wake up call!!
Sometimes the world needs a wake up call!!
There is nothing in MWM mandate (in my view well ordered)that stops Traveller publications looking at the issues that Kafka mentions.
As I remember:
Eco and Corporate terror was a favourite theme of the Keith's (Look at Nomads of the World Ocean)
Slavery was dealt with in the TD dealing with the Trojan Reaches.
The damaging evil of narcotics have been raised at least once by the TAS news service.
Even blackmail from ⌧ography was (sort of)dealt with in Marooned/Marooned Alone.
None of these adventures were ever gratuitous - just presented real life human fallibility in a matter of fact sort of way.
Kafkaesque 'Dark' (pun intended)is perfectly apt for Traveller and makes most campaigns interesting. The players don't have to be caped crusaders - just (nearly) ordinary John/Jane Does in the thick of things.
As I remember:
Eco and Corporate terror was a favourite theme of the Keith's (Look at Nomads of the World Ocean)
Slavery was dealt with in the TD dealing with the Trojan Reaches.
The damaging evil of narcotics have been raised at least once by the TAS news service.
Even blackmail from ⌧ography was (sort of)dealt with in Marooned/Marooned Alone.
None of these adventures were ever gratuitous - just presented real life human fallibility in a matter of fact sort of way.
Kafkaesque 'Dark' (pun intended)is perfectly apt for Traveller and makes most campaigns interesting. The players don't have to be caped crusaders - just (nearly) ordinary John/Jane Does in the thick of things.
Gallowglass
SOC-12
Traveller has successfully dealt with "Dark" themes in the past and no doubt will again, primarily because it has always eschewed the cheap sensationalism that seems the main raison d'etre of the Book of Vile Darkness.
Indeed, some (including me) feel that precsiely that sort of cheap sensationalism was underpinning the "Let's smash EVERYTHING!" attitude of Virus and The New Era... but that's a different can of (frankly uninteresting) worms
Shadowdancer
SOC-14 1K
I think the sparing use of some of the darker theme elements mentioned here (urban and eco decay, corp horrors, drugs, slavery, violence, ⌧ography, etc.) can be used to make a planet or culture unique, and memorable for the players. A good way to avoid the cookie-cutter starport syndrome.
But if it's being used all the time, it loses its impact quickly. The players become desensitized to it. It loses it's shock impact.
But if it's being used all the time, it loses its impact quickly. The players become desensitized to it. It loses it's shock impact.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
"I think the sparing use of some of the darker theme elements mentioned here (urban and eco decay, corp horrors, drugs, slavery, violence, ⌧ography, etc.) can be used to make a planet or culture unique, and memorable for the players. A good way to avoid the cookie-cutter starport syndrome.
But if it's being used all the time, it loses its impact quickly. The players become desensitized to it. It loses it's shock impact."-paraquat Johnson
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Agreed, it helps shape the universe, its out there, but there are some nice "clean" places too. Rubbing one's nose in it each session(gaming) desensitizes one to it. Wearing it like a shirt, like allowing PC's to be these type of folks is in Lisagb's post, alluring to the dark side of Human pysche, but quickly unsatisfying.
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Gallowglass wrote, "Traveller has successfully dealt with "Dark" themes in the past and no doubt will again, primarily because it has always eschewed the cheap sensationalism that seems the main raison d'etre of the Book of Vile Darkness.
Indeed, some (including me) feel that precsiely that sort of cheap sensationalism was underpinning the "Let's smash EVERYTHING!" attitude of Virus and The New Era... but that's a different can of (frankly uninteresting) worms "
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Agreed, the cheap sensationalism thingy is overdone in the rest of the world in real life, why go for the quick buck in Traveller on same principles?
And that can of worms was laid to rest in the board forum here "Dave Nilsen's Vision". The flowers on that grave are 5 years old and growing. Leave em be, lets move along to the future of Traveller. I'm with you on that.
But if it's being used all the time, it loses its impact quickly. The players become desensitized to it. It loses it's shock impact."-paraquat Johnson
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Agreed, it helps shape the universe, its out there, but there are some nice "clean" places too. Rubbing one's nose in it each session(gaming) desensitizes one to it. Wearing it like a shirt, like allowing PC's to be these type of folks is in Lisagb's post, alluring to the dark side of Human pysche, but quickly unsatisfying.
______________________________________________
Gallowglass wrote, "Traveller has successfully dealt with "Dark" themes in the past and no doubt will again, primarily because it has always eschewed the cheap sensationalism that seems the main raison d'etre of the Book of Vile Darkness.
Indeed, some (including me) feel that precsiely that sort of cheap sensationalism was underpinning the "Let's smash EVERYTHING!" attitude of Virus and The New Era... but that's a different can of (frankly uninteresting) worms "
_____________________________________________
Agreed, the cheap sensationalism thingy is overdone in the rest of the world in real life, why go for the quick buck in Traveller on same principles?
And that can of worms was laid to rest in the board forum here "Dave Nilsen's Vision". The flowers on that grave are 5 years old and growing. Leave em be, lets move along to the future of Traveller. I'm with you on that.
