Calculating Maintenance Costs or "Your big end's gone, mate!"

[aramis]

Virus itself snaps my disbelief suspenders well past breaking. And, unless one is mixing and matching, TNE had no provisions for a virus-less set of encounter tables. There are those who buy into the possibilities, and those who don't; this isn't really the place for discussing the validity (or lack thereof) of the Virus concept, nor its place in Traveller; this thread is about maintenance, and by extension, what that maintenance is going to cost... in various rulests.

It had really good maintenance rules. The technical architecture is arguably the most realistic, and one of the hardest to use.

 

[savage]

I'm a fan of various items from all of the systems. I am all for 10% annual maintenance and lower ship prices...I implement both of those.
Also to make things more affordable (in my TNE era campaign) I've re-energized vessels with 40 year full refits/modernizations, and jumpgates (reduces onboard engine stress).

 

[shadowdragon]

T20 routine maintenance costs are .01% (new) cost anually, and monthy at .0025% (new) cost, which allows a 5% reduction per month to annual maintenance up to 50% reduction annualy.
additional cost are listed for replenishing stores and such.

 

[Plankowner]

OK, here is how a RW airline maintains a RW airplane (multi-million dollar vessel in the 100-400 ton range)

EVERY FLIGHT: The pilot goes through a checklist of items including verifying that the critical systems (like NAV and Engines) work.

EVERY 2-3 DAYS: An "A" check is done. This is a walk the plane, check the tires, make sure the lights work and call it a day kind of check. In Traveller, this would be the maintenance that the crew could do in space.

Every 4-6 WEEKS: A "B" check is done. This is an overnight check (6-8 hours) involving a crew of a dozen or so. They fix any of the non-critical things that broke in the last month (cracked plastic, worn knob, etc). They also perform operational checks of major systems. In Traveller, this could probably be done by the ships crew during any port visit.

EVERY 12-18 MONTHS: A "C" check is done. This is a 3-4 day check that goes into more detailed look at ships systems and fixes them. Worn cushions are replaced here as well as checks behind panels etc.

EVERY 4 "C" CHECKS: A "D" check is done. This is a full-blown, strip the plane to the walls kind of check that takes about a month. Major components are removed and overhauled. Hydraulic systems are drained, cleaned and repaired. This is a BIG check that is usually done at an Overhaul Base (Class A-B Starport?).

Some Air Carriers phase their C and D checks into a continuous sequence where they do parts of the D on each of the C checks and have the planes in for a week or so.

For Traveller, I figure they use an A, B, C check as described above. The C check must be done at an A or B starport and is a combination of the airline C and D Checks.

Aging aircraft are a factor, but as you can see, until the second D check (8-12 years down the road) there are not a lot of costs. The first D check is pretty mild compared to the later checks. Each D check gets more an more costly because more and more things are damaged, corroded, etc. BUT, for gaming terms perhaps averaging everything out like LBB2 did is a good first approximation.

I don't have any of the other versions of Traveller so I cannot comment on their accuracy.

If anyone is interested in MORE detail about these checks, PM me and I will be happy to talk your ear off.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
I'd also like to see a bit more parity between maintenance and purchase costs. One could argue for an ultra-reliable black box universe, where things are expensive, but almost never break down and are impossible to fix when they do (RW cars are going that way).

However, I personally prefer the Firefly/Das Boot/Millennium Falcon kind of situation, where things break down on a regular basis but can be fixed with skill and ingenuity.

I believe others have raised the matter of over-priced ships in the OTU elsewhere, so I won't go into that again.

"10,000 credits?! We could almost buy our own ship for that!"

So your players end up with the captain stating: "For 3 Million Credits missiles in the tubes but we are stuck here for lack of wire for one credit" while the Chief Engineer has a nervous breakdown and the TAS reporter wonders wether they will die?

Or more along the XO quiting everybody down with "Silence, a destroyer is coming!"?


But I partially agree, PC ships should be maintained using a mix between "McGyver" style improvisation, "Moltke" style pre-planning and "Carter" still salvage skills.

Some parts must be there, calling for a planned purchase, some can be improvised and some can be adapted from other ships.

Yes, there is no such thing as a "universal" part. Two FreeTrades of the same type could be quite different. Example:


While the MTU style M-1 drive of the ship build on Terra will fit in the bay for the LSP style drive for the Mora build craft, the internal parts will be quite different. IMTU ship plans end at the "component" level, stating "here goes a drive with this thrust, that dimensions and that power input" but not how the drive works internally. Sure, there is another set of blueprints (That cost extra) for the LSP drive. But why use it when a local substitute exists.

Does not matter for the big players like Tuki, they swap whole drive units and have a deal with LSP for exchange/maintenance. But adds another "tramp" element for the free trader and another difference to the ship.

Well, guess I watched one techie too much trying to fit a german part in a US build M48...

 

[Plankowner]

Michael, in many ways what you are suggesting is done today by the big Airline Manufacturers. Most interior components are built around an interface document that defines how big, how heavy, where the plumbing and electrical hookups go and where to attach it are all located. The exact layout of the module are up the manufacturer and the operator. Often several manufacturer's will be able to fit into the same space. On an MD80 aircraft, I know of about half-a-dozen different companies that make Galley modules, all built to the same Interface Document, but looking nothing alike on the inside.

Engines are built similarly. The new wave of planes are all being certified with more than one engine type (competition don't ya know ). Attach your engine here, here and here; this much stress allowed at each attach point and these minimum performance requirements.

I could see Starships being built the same way. Almost takes you back to the LBB2 idea of an "engineering space" that cannot be changed, but the modules within it can be.

Tramp elements are good rollplaying. Some of the sub-components MIGHT be interchangeable. After all every Jump Drive needs a Multi-Phasic Phlux Capacitor, but which one of the 14 sizes available, from what TL, fits your ship? Using some chewing gum and spit, a good engineer might be able to make a TL C, Mk XI unit fit where a TL E, Mk III is supposed to go, but it might not work perfectly, or for very long.

 

[mbrinkhues]

That leads to "10 Thinks you don't want to hear from a technician"

10) That part is actually from the follow-up model but it will fit with minor effort[10] and should work just fine

9) Ja, that unit pulls more juice than the old one. But the generator has extra capacity(true) and the cabling should be able to handle it[9]

8) I can't understand why the control unit always get's flattened. I even placed it in the hole the shield company left.[8]

7) No need to replace the cables just because the numbers are unreadable. The CAN'T be inserted the wrong way[7]

6) We don't need to remove the manual starter just because we have installed a computer control system. We'll just tell every train electrician not to use it[6]

5) There is no need for a secondary fuel gauge that tracks the fuel used by the secondary heating system[5]

4) That can't happen. We have four independend security systems that the driver must de-activate before the vehicle moves[4]

3) No fear, that construction is far sturdier than it looks. It can easily support the 22 tons we put on it. We use that all the time to change tires[3]

2) Sure it says "Use a timer" in the manual. But that is complicated. I just count CPU cycles and be done. What can probably happen[2]

1) I am a highly trained engineer with a PhD in Mechanics. You are just a 50 year old "stuck in traditions" grease monkey. We do it MY way for that's the modern way[1]


[1] The modern way consisted of running up the drive engines (okay) to rip the cutter out of the coal shoal, trusting the engine governer to prevent the chain ripping. Saddly the engines belonged to the next bigger unit and the governor was not changed. Riiiiiiip goes the pull chain

[2] The unit might break down. And the supplier, lacking a "same" replacement mit generously deliver a faster unit. That in turn processes faster and ... Well, it took them three days to get the resulting mess cleaned.

[3] Change tires, yes. Run the landing gear in and out every five minutes and perform other shows, no. Well, F4's are build for carrier duty, they can take a beating

[4] Yup! And a driver who has to do that 15-20 times a day. Now if at least one of the systems would have been temper proofed...

[5] Actually right. MechInfantry is fit and walking 15km to the next phone at night, in a SnowStorm to call for a fuel truck is good training

[6] Along came a helpful guy from production who was NOT informed. He decided to help out and put the lever to "charge". 480KWh Accumulator went "Booom"

[7] They can if the guy doing it is a semi-professional body builder in a hurry

[8] That hole in the mining shield was the receptangle for a 4ton airjack to assist in moving the shield

[9] Nope, it overheats and catches fire. Start pulling the turret.

[10] End result: The attached it the wrong way round, put an M48 tank in advanced when the believed it was in reverse and rammed it into the S4 sergeants office gun barrel first

 

[Fritz_Brown]

re: #7
They put these little rings on one end of the lithium batteries for the GPS units - so that you can't insert them the wrong way (they blow up and stuff). Of course, you can insert them the wrong way if a grunt gets frustrated trying to insert the thing and whips out his Gerber and whittles off the little ring.........

 

[mbrinkhues]

Some more Sabots to throw into your players cogs:

Sure that's compatible So they where forced to buy a never part for their 40+ year old ship. The seller assured them it would work and it sure seems to fit in nicely. It even works most of the time. But some differences in the interface of the new black box cause the occasional and unexpected malfunction

Borrowed ship, Colonel's style The characters have borrowed their current ship without asking the recently deceased owner. Half the systems are an enigma and the other half is a riddle. Remember: You can't just slap an Imperial Sunburst on it and call it yours!

Does anyone year read Vagr The situation is worse enough when swapping parts in the Empire. Sadly your characters are stuck in in Vagr Extends. Sure you can understand Vagr. I can understand english but I still don't know how many PSI are one Bar/Atü or how many kilograms to a stone

Imperial Army Knive That PA near-miss fried your computers, you are stranded on "Way outta there" with a hold full of droid brains and the friendly locals are gathering to prepare Trade-KeBab and "Local Fried Trader". Time to improvise a computer

That is from err the previous owner Sometimes a ship offered is too good to be true. And your players are a bit too trustworthy. Until the next imperial customs check asks some pointed questions about the sensor shielded cargo compartments

Cooter's Garage Barely reaching "We made it" and forced to do some major repairs all the characters get is closer to a car shop than a starship repair booth. Add in slightly crazy locals racing around in brightly painted G-rafts and a major that tries to cheat them out of their ship.