Canon K'kree ship designs?
- Thread starter TheDark
- Start date
Not official, but Robert Pearce has deckplans and images on his blog of a 1,000ton Courier
http://travellerrpgblog.blogspot.com/2016/09/k-is-for-kkree.html
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
CT Alien Module 2: K'kree:
Xeekr'kir! (Merchant): Using a 6,000-ton hull,
Kahk'rik'kreng (Courier): Using a 6,000-ton hull,
Rr'xighik'ker (Frigate): Built on a 5,000 ton hull,
Xeekr'kir! (Merchant): Using a 6,000-ton hull,
Kahk'rik'kreng (Courier): Using a 6,000-ton hull,
Rr'xighik'ker (Frigate): Built on a 5,000 ton hull,
I actually have a printed copy of the deckplan for that one, which was given out at one of the Travellercon/USA events a few years ago. I know there are also about fourteen or so ships in 101 Starships, but I'm trying to look at published designs before fanon designs to get a better idea of design philosophy.
Somehow I skipped right over those, even though I was looking at CT 2 to remind myself what the necessary tonnage per K'kree was. Those three are all also in GT Alien Races 2, but it might be helpful to see how the designs were reinterpreted in GT, since that's the system 101 Starships uses.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Not very similar:
| Kahk'rik'kreng (Courier) | CT | GT |
|---|---|---|
| Size | 6 000 Dt | 10 000 Dt |
| Jump | 3 | 3 |
| Accel | 1 G | 2 G |
| Crew | 11 | 99 |
| Accommodations | 60 | 150 |
| Turrets | 15 | 60 + 40 empty |
Garnfellow
SOC-13
Aliens of Charted Space: Volume 1 has Mongoose Traveller stats for the some smallcraft and one smallish merchant:
- Bearer-of-Cargoes shuttle
- Bearer-of-Families orbital shuttle
- Trader of the Outer Steppes merchant (1.2kton)
- Quickening Thunder Robotic Fighter
- Faithful Shield Robotic Escort Fighter
coliver988
SOC-14 1K
Mongoose's JTAS 7 has the Krungha Processing Ark: a vast cylinder 2 kilometers in length and diameter. 465,000,000 tons
A cylinder configuration just seems "wrong" for My Ponies. They were 1.5 deck flattened disks. Gotta reread that the new MgT2e Alien book.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A K'kree ship deckplan should maximise the amount of open plan area - so a single deck for crew, bridge, passengers,
Cargo, fuel, and engines can be on other decks.
Cargo, fuel, and engines can be on other decks.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
So given that we apparently see flying saucer form factors, are the Kkree already here?
Having gone through CT recently to re-find the reference to K'kree accommodations, I was wondering how a smallcraft would work for K'kree that need 48 tons of space each and refuse to go alone (and can only reduce the volume demand to 24 tons with the Enclosure skill). Apparently the answer is by massively reducing the space they need and making it uncomfortable/unpleasant for them. Mongoose's K'kree only need "three to four" times as much space as a human rather than CT's twelve times as much. Three times the space was possible in Striker, but with an automatic -6 to morale regardless of Enclosure skill.
I'm a bit torn on how I feel about that change. 48 tons per K'kree was quite a lot, but it also helped emphasize their alienness that not only are they larger than a human, not only are they extremely herd-dependent, but they're also extremely claustrophobic, all of which forces them into having ships with huge living spaces to compensate for those physical and psychological quirks.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Which should have knock on effects in terms of their economy or at least mobility.
I’m guess low berthing is unknown to them or at least only for very low SOC.
Krikkitone
SOC-12
I would make it something like 240 tons starting + 24 per Kkree to keep the open space (so for a crew of 10, 480…but for a crew of 100, 2640…. the extra pop balances out the limited space per pop)
I like the idea of the required space being caste-based, with lower castes having learned to tolerate somewhat tighter quarters because their lack of wealth and status means they're usually not able to have as much space anyway. My first-look gut feeling is that all the MgT 2E numbers should be roughly double what they are so that low-caste horses aren't being crammed into spaces sized for humans. Even with the 50% common space added in, 6 servant-caste K'kree in minimal quarters need the same volume as 6 humans in single staterooms.
If the numbers are doubled, barely tolerable for a servant-caste K'kree would become 8 tons of space plus 4 tons per herd member, plus another 50% for common areas, so effectively 12 tons per herd + 6 tons per K'kree. High Nobles (including common areas) would need a minimum of 60 tons per herd plus 30 per herd member. It's still smaller than the 48 tons per K'kree of CT, but it's significantly more than the smaller, less claustrophobic species. It also keeps small craft as a possibility for smaller herds of lower caste and crew, while large herds or nobles will still need their large ship to land.
If the numbers are doubled, barely tolerable for a servant-caste K'kree would become 8 tons of space plus 4 tons per herd member, plus another 50% for common areas, so effectively 12 tons per herd + 6 tons per K'kree. High Nobles (including common areas) would need a minimum of 60 tons per herd plus 30 per herd member. It's still smaller than the 48 tons per K'kree of CT, but it's significantly more than the smaller, less claustrophobic species. It also keeps small craft as a possibility for smaller herds of lower caste and crew, while large herds or nobles will still need their large ship to land.
No, @TheDark . CT was very specific on what is needed. The insane (to human gamers LOL) requirements are due the psychological trickery required not to panic the herd and ensure comfortable journeys, for them.
CT describes accomodations requirements. Their spaceships built with no staterooms. The Stateroom equivelent is 48 tons per person at MCr1 per person. ONLY military vessels have "double occupancy", because females are not on military vessels and no need to train them on Enclosure skill. With regards to deck plans, K'kree require 6 meter tall decks. I suspect the low cost is due to the simplicity of such accomodations. They don't do low berths either.
CT describes accomodations requirements. Their spaceships built with no staterooms. The Stateroom equivelent is 48 tons per person at MCr1 per person. ONLY military vessels have "double occupancy", because females are not on military vessels and no need to train them on Enclosure skill. With regards to deck plans, K'kree require 6 meter tall decks. I suspect the low cost is due to the simplicity of such accomodations. They don't do low berths either.
Yes, you are correct that it is very clear. To quote CT "if all personnel on board have Enclosure skill (possible only on military ships, where females are not carried), "double occupancy" of this space is allowed..." (emphasis added).
Edit: I guess my issue is I don't see where we're disagreeing. You're saying no and then repeating what I said earlier in the thread and then giving detail that's nice but irrelevant.
My disagreement is what you imply that ship design of the accommodation space can be based on a specific number of each caste.
High Nobles require 60 tons and lower castes are forced to deal with less tonnage. That sort of allocation is based on human hierarchical systems where lower castes are not "family". That is not how K'kree think.
A patriarch is the "chief" or "parent" of his herd even if he does not sire all the individuals contained within. It is his ultimate responsibility to make sure his ship has enough room for everyone or his status may diminish amongst the other patriarchs. May have to buy a bigger ship. Responsible even if he personally does not involve himself in the purchase.
Because the design is one open deck, there are no formal demarcations of: this is Luxury Stateroom 1, these are Standard staterooms A-L, these are double occupancy staterooms a1-k24, etc.. Privacy not really a K'kree thing. The space is the space. Allocations are going to be impromptu affairs based on the caste, status in caste, rank and so on. and varying number herd members with births, deaths, deaths, etc.
My "implication" was taken directly from Aliens of Charted Space Volume 1, pages 154-155, where the rules for K'kree accommodations in Mongoose Traveller 2e are provided. Those rules provide differing tonnages based on whether the K'kree herd is servant-caste, crew, merchant-caste, noble-caste, or high noble-caste, with the herd's caste being defined by the rules on page 125 of the same book (in brief, based on the patriarch's SOC score, which replaces CT's Caste score). It may not have been clear that I was referring to those rules, since I only made reference to Mongoose reducing the requirements but didn't state in the same post that they were now caste-based. If that is the case, I apologize.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Per a couple broad hints in CT K'kree, my impression is that the big military ships frequently stretch into lozenges and can go multi-deck, but at huge wasted volume costs.
The best adapted to military life are the so-called Crazies. While they are called that by the rest of the K'kree, the reality is that they are just more adaptable than most K'kree believe is possible. The Hiver account of the end of their war thousands of years ago strongly suggests that K'kree are far more capable of adaption than they know, or WANT to know.
The best adapted to military life are the so-called Crazies. While they are called that by the rest of the K'kree, the reality is that they are just more adaptable than most K'kree believe is possible. The Hiver account of the end of their war thousands of years ago strongly suggests that K'kree are far more capable of adaption than they know, or WANT to know.
