Pink is going to be hard to read.
You need a blow-dryer and electronic lemon-juice . . .
Canon vs. Fanon & The Wiki...
- Thread starter maksimsmelchak
- Start date
You need a blow-dryer and electronic lemon-juice . . .
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I am looking at the Wiki entry for Vilis, a planet that I am using in a novel I am working on. The entry says Milieu 1116, so I am assuming that means post-Civil War and post-Virus. The UWP does not agree with my copy of the Spinward Marches, which looks to be the 9th printing of the original Supplement 3.
The source list for the information cited regarding the planet is as follows.
There is no indication as to which of these sources any of the information is from. The only one that I have is Adventure 7, in hard copy, somewhere in my basement. It would be very nice to know where everything came from, so as to know how much validity to award it. By the way, it does not really help to determine what Vilis would be like circa 1105.
If you look only at the UWP of the planet, there are three different apparently canonical possibilities. The original one in Supplement 3, the Milieu 1116, and The New Era one in 1119. I have no idea as to what either GURPS or Mongoose does with it.
The source list for the information cited regarding the planet is as follows.
There is no indication as to which of these sources any of the information is from. The only one that I have is Adventure 7, in hard copy, somewhere in my basement. It would be very nice to know where everything came from, so as to know how much validity to award it. By the way, it does not really help to determine what Vilis would be like circa 1105.
If you look only at the UWP of the planet, there are three different apparently canonical possibilities. The original one in Supplement 3, the Milieu 1116, and The New Era one in 1119. I have no idea as to what either GURPS or Mongoose does with it.
There are actually four. The "T5 Second Survey worlds" category at the bottom of the page indicates the UWP data for Milieu 1105 data is from the second survey published on the Traveller Map site.
In fact all of the data the infobox (right side) down to the New Era side is for the 1105 data from Traveller Map or generated by the Trade Map generator.
The data in the infobox in the New Era section is from The Regency Sourcebook, the New Era source for data.
The initial text at the top of the page is also automatically generated from the T5 Second Survey data as well. So it is era 1105.
The second labeled "IISS Astrographic Survey" is the data from Behind the Claw.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
If I could, I'd add all sorts of details to systems in the Glimmerdrift along with other Traveller generated, and following the rules stuff to that area to the Wiki...
But, I feel like I should have authorization and at least some sort of official nod to do that. And, yes, if it would be better put in blue to make it clear it isn't canon, that's fine too.
But, I feel like I should have authorization and at least some sort of official nod to do that. And, yes, if it would be better put in blue to make it clear it isn't canon, that's fine too.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The UWP for Vilis that appears in my copy of Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches, is A593933. That does not match any in the Wiki entry.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I only ever use S:3 Spinward Marches for 1105 data.
To save you digging out your copy the UPP for Vils in A:7 is A-593933-A
To save you digging out your copy the UPP for Vils in A:7 is A-593933-A
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The published version of the errata corrected version?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Thank you, but I did get it out. It was easier to locate than I anticipated. I guess cleaning does have some merits to it.
And this is the exact debate about what is canon: According to the T5 Second Survey Vilis' UWP is A593943-A, the government change due to T5 UWP generation rules not allowing a pop 9 world to have a gov code of 3 (only 4 or higher). Because the T5 Second Survey is the official canon, the UWPs from Supplement 3, Adventure 7, The Spinward Marches Campaign, the 1116 data from The Regency Sourcebook, and any number of other sources, are now out of date.
As the Canon Page says: The categorization of an article as canon or not is usually irrelevant to gamers. Which articles are important to your game should be your decision. Canon is important to authors writing for a publisher to ensure they are within the boundaries set by previous authors.
I would love to have you do that. Despite the rantings and ravings of this thread, content is always welcome. There is a Manual of Style, and feel free to ask questions either here or on my talk page.
T5SS corrected a lot of that data. I just go with what is on the Traveller Map which is vetted by Marc on occasion and Don used to enact edits upon it. RIP.
Many worlds have had their UWP's changed a dozen or so times since the late 70's when Traveller was first published. It can be a nightmare trying to get them all in let alone reconciling all of the differences and/or changes. It's an awkward art.
And meanwhile many people are complaining why it isn't perfect yet, doesn't have full citations, why they think the wiki is crap, etc. I just plug away and do the best I can. This is an unpaid hobby for me. And, oddly enough, a joy... Can you say glutton for punishment?
Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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Enoki, please do. Thomas has given you his imprimatur and you have mine for what it is worth. I will give you my text number if you want help. PM here or elsewhere and I will help you however you may like.
I wouldn't bother with the blue at this time. Still no consensus how to indicate canonicity. I just make a new heading with the title "Other Data" and type non-canon before it.
Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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No, 1116 was the pivot point and is supposed to represent pre-virus, pre-civil war, pre-Lorenverse, etc.
It was related to me although I know many consider the pivot point to be 1115.
UWP's have been changed by canon sources and may not agree with the most current canon publication source.
It's a mix of everything, carefully pieced together to try and preserve as much of everything as possible.
Go to the original sources to see the recipe ingredients.
Sorry that not all page numbers are cited yet. Want to help? Tell us which pages have what?
With tens of thousands of worlds, I can't do it on my own and neither can Thomas. We need help.
1105 data may or may not be available. It's sort of a random crap shoot.
For instance, Rancke loved the Marches and input much of his IMTU data into the mix. Being that some of his data later turned into canon, and much of the rest of his data filled in holes where canon never existed, it is as valid as anything can be.
And now you get an idea why Trav-wiki editing can be so darn fun! </sarcasm>
Thanks for your post!
Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
The data timeframes are:
1) Supplement 3 - ca 1105
2) Milieu 1116 - ca 1116, just prior to the major split point between OTU and LTU
3) New Era - ca 1200 (not 1119) - after the Rebellion/Collapse/Recovery and Virus (non-LTU)
2) Milieu 1116 - ca 1116, just prior to the major split point between OTU and LTU
3) New Era - ca 1200 (not 1119) - after the Rebellion/Collapse/Recovery and Virus (non-LTU)
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Given the number of different editions and versions of the game, I have grave doubts if any form of canon is possible, as there are too many contradictions and changes. As for saying that T5 is now canon, that is immaterial to someone who does not have it, and given the amount of errata and the fact that T5 is still not a finished product, saying that it is canon may be changed by the next version.
As for T5 and Second Survey, I do not have and probably will not get Second Survey. As for T5, I have the latest version in digital, but view it many as a possible source of ideas, not something that I would actually play. I have gone back to the 1977 rules for Starship construction as they work best for the Piper Sector that I am developing, and for which I am using Classic as the basis.
What is needed in the Wiki is resource citing, stating where any information if from, what edition the information is based on, and in the case of GURPS and Mongoose, is this to be viewed as valid for everyone. If a post is made, the source of it needs to be cited as well.
That is interesting. Rhylanor is Pop 9, and still has a Type 3 government (self-perpetuating oligarchy).
The T5 Second survey has been published and is available for free on the Traveller Map site. All of the maps available on the site use the T5 Second Survey data as far as it has been developed.
Which is very interesting because the older style of generating Government value (2D - 7 + population) or the T5 method (Flux + population) , both don't allow the combination.
I know in the T5 Second Survey review these things were changed unless there was some overriding reason not to change it. I have not gone through the review of all publications to figure out why one was changed and the other not.
Isn't 2D-7 the same as FLUX (unless you are ignoring values below zero in the calculation process in the first instance)?