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Canon vs. Fanon & The Wiki...

Milspec Traveller Wiki

I have been playing CT since around 1979 and I love it. I have been running a pbem game for years. I recently began trying to place information on the wiki and find I am not alone there. I am not as adept at organizing new entries and I am concerned I may do more harm than good.

I would like to learn more about how to format pages and entries. I also try to keep most of my entries if not technically canon at least fitting within the Traveller universe. I get a lot of good feedback from Maksim-Smelchak and I think he should be commended for his excellent work.

I try to keep my entries within what I think of as milspec for Traveller. I would make an entry describing a plant or animal for a particular world but I would not describe starships travelling J-10 or a telephone which could call a person or send a message in a way which would break the rules of FTL communication.
 
Khan Trav said:
I have been playing CT since around 1979 and I love it. I have been running a pbem game for years. I recently began trying to place information on the wiki and find I am not alone there. I am not as adept at organizing new entries and I am concerned I may do more harm than good.
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Welcome to the Traveller Wiki. The brilliance of a wiki is you shouldn't worry about doing harm.

I would like to learn more about how to format pages and entries. I also try to keep most of my entries if not technically canon at least fitting within the Traveller universe. I get a lot of good feedback from Maksim-Smelchak and I think he should be commended for his excellent work.
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I would suggest starting with the Manual of Style. There are several linked pages which give a suggested outline for the various types of articles. And if you have specific questions, I or Maksim will be more than happy to help and provide direction.
 
Been thinking about classifications and, really, I think color banners aren't right.

The classification codes are alright, if a tad understated.

There's another issue: sometimes, the subject material isn't important enough to matter whether or not such-and-such a ruleset mentioned it.

So this has two dimensions, but I would suggest it's a sparse matrix.
 
Hi Rob,

robject said:
Been thinking about classifications and, really, I think color banners aren't right.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable. When you can better put your finger on what you don't like about it, please share your concrete recommendations. Your input is always valued.

robject said:
The classification codes are alright, if a tad understated.
Click to expand...

*** Are you talking about the TC's or something else? UWPs? ***

robject said:
There's another issue: sometimes, the subject material isn't important enough to matter whether or not such-and-such a ruleset mentioned it.
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We're working on improving the citations, but it's slow, lengthy, and thankless work. Please thank Thomas Jones-Low, who has busted his hump to improve them, make better citation templates available, and generally improved the whole smackeroo. I use that word in the technical sense, of course.

robject said:
So this has two dimensions, but I would suggest it's a sparse matrix.
Click to expand...

*** Ok. Would you please cite the page that you are thinking of? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
 
Thanks, Khan!

Khan Trav said:
I have been playing CT since around 1979 and I love it. I have been running a pbem game for years. I recently began trying to place information on the wiki and find I am not alone there. I am not as adept at organizing new entries and I am concerned I may do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

I like your entries. The wiki is specifically cleared for fan-created entries regardless of canon by permission of Marc Miller of FFE. We correct the ones that try to overlay the OTU (canon Trav universe), but otherwise live and let live.

Marc, in his wisdom, sees the wiki as a resource for fans. It just happens to be useful to future authors as well, among others...

Khan Trav said:
I would like to learn more about how to format pages and entries. I also try to keep most of my entries if not technically canon at least fitting within the Traveller universe.
Click to expand...

Thomas gave you great advice. You can contact me anytime as well.

Khan Trav said:
I get a lot of good feedback from Maksim-Smelchak and I think he should be commended for his excellent work.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but it's a team effort and I couldn't do my part without the amazing support of Thomas, Adie Stewart, Ssteve, Wayne Whurlogan (sp?), and so many others. We sometimes disagree about matters, but in the end we're all contributing to a community effort. Thomas especially deserves praise for his many years of hard work and good leadership at the wiki.

Really appreciate the praise. Thanks!

Khan Trav said:
I try to keep my entries within what I think of as milspec for Traveller. I would make an entry describing a plant or animal for a particular world but I would not describe starships travelling J-10 or a telephone which could call a person or send a message in a way which would break the rules of FTL communication.
Click to expand...

With so many different editions and settings, it's hard to create stock templates, but we've been working on developing them the past few years. I takes time to create them and then fine tune them to the subject matter.

I appreciate your positive communication. Thanks.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
 
Aramis,

Thank you for your post.

aramis said:
The ones I've met? Yep.
I've seen three trends in the people I've seen talking about it online. Most seem to be either (A) using one of the few MGT sectors, or (B) generating a subsector or two, essentially "on a random border", but linking to what they see of canon in their MGT books, or (C) going whole hog old school, and ignoring canon altogether. A very small fraction are (D) Using T5 without other canon references, except maybe Travellermap.

(C) is the most vocal, but they also tend to be playing Original D&D (little brown or white books), Tunnels and Trolls, Far Trek or Where No Man Has Gone Before (a pair of OSR type games released under Paramount's old Fan Use permissions), &/or Starships & Spacemen (either edition).

(B) seems, from plays reported on RPGG, various Facebook and G+ boards, and AP threads on 4chan, 7chan, and The RPG Site, to be the most common, and usually using MGT rules.

(A) tends to be a little more odd - a lot of "I sold all my books, and saw the new edition, and dived in." Some, however, are new to the game, and want to use the setting because it saves them work.

From what I've seen, few would match up with what's in Agent, but those that would are usually buying older editions on CD, and making leaps.

A few newbs have started with T5. I recall one guy got T5 hoping for it to be his first RPG to run... he'd been a player a few times in D&D, I think... He did manage to grasp much of it. (More than me, actually. T5 makes my head spin at times.)

I'm not seeing many who are doing ATUs who aren't grogs, but there are a couple. I've never seen an AP for MGT Judge Dredd Traveller edition. (For my own part, I've managed to generate a few characters. The skill levels are insanely high. Insanely.)
Click to expand...

We're working on generating a first productive release of T5 products.

Don's Timeline has been massively worked upon and I hope to see it released in the near future as well. I'm currently checking its citations, a multi-month piece of work, covering several thousand entries. His family has cleared it for release when it's ready. RIP, Don.

I appreciate your hard work with the computer support end and at CotI.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
 
Rob's Summary of the FB discussion

Rob's Summary of the FB discussion

"Canon is the basis for all that follows." -- Ray A.K. Crawford.

Canon is...

(1) The "big picture": a common-ground starting point for understanding and discussion. Thus, the Traveller core principles plus the OTU timeline.
(2) A needed structure and guide for future published material to keep a consistent "look and feel" with the OTU.


Rob's Opinion of All This

The way I've seen people try to specify canon in the past doesn't work.

Therefore, I define it minimally as:

I. The Rules. Traveller5 for gathering in the essentials and resolving little inconsistencies (how things work).

II. The Setting.
- Library Data from MTIE. The BEST compiled source of OTU overview entries, period.
- plus Essays from MTRC and SMC. Supplemental but crucial.
- plus a bit of Library Data (18 entries in 13 pages) omitted from the above sources.
- toss in Traveller5-related stuff (Deckplans, AOTI).

Beyond that, you're going to have to go digging. TravellerMap helps.
 
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robject said:
Rob's Summary of the FB discussion

"Canon is the basis for all that follows." -- Ray A.K. Crawford.

Canon is...

(1) The "big picture": a common-ground starting point for understanding and discussion. Thus, the Traveller core principles plus the OTU timeline.
(2) A needed structure and guide for future published material to keep a consistent "look and feel" with the OTU.


Rob's Opinion of All This

The way I've seen people try to specify canon in the past doesn't work.

Therefore, I define it minimally as:

I. The Rules. Traveller5 for gathering in the essentials and resolving little inconsistencies (how things work).

II. The Setting.
- Library Data from MTIE. The BEST compiled source of OTU overview entries, period.
- plus Essays from MTRC and SMC. Supplemental but crucial.
- plus a bit of Library Data (18 entries in 13 pages) omitted from the above sources.
- toss in Traveller5-related stuff (Deckplans, AOTI).

Beyond that, you're going to have to go digging. TravellerMap helps.
Click to expand...

Am I correct that the abbreviation used stand for the following books?

MTIE: MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia
MTRC: MegaTraveller Referee Companion
SMC: Spinward Marches Campaign

I assume that the Imperial Encyclopedia is written for MegaTraveller, and not for Classic. As I do not use MegaTraveller, I consider it superfluous. The same for the Referee Companion. Note, I did buy the boxed MegaTraveller set when it came out. It is somewhere in my basement.

I never purchased the Spinward Marches Campaign game until the rules were included in one of the CDs that I have purchased. I have not looked at it at all.

So what do the people do who do not have these books, and do not really want to buy them?

I figure that each player runs his or hers canon based on the material that they have and want to use. If they do not have it, it is not part of their canon.

Sorting out what is and is not canon on the Traveller Map is not exactly easy.
 
You're correct.

The library data in MT's IE and RC are collected and, in many cases, errata-corrected copies of various library data found in Classic Traveller, including the Library Data A-M and N-Z LBBs, alien profiles from the alien modules, etc.

Folks who don't have MT simply use whatever they have from CT. It's good enough, and as I mentioned, there is a bit of useful material that is NOT in MT... typically stuff that was more important before the Rebellion, and some provincial stuff such as Oberlindes, InStarSpec, and so on. SMC explains the Fifth Frontier War, adequately and concisely.

The few sources I list easily cover what's needed for anyone to understand the setting. You certainly don't need 400 publications to understand the OTU. You could get by with five:


1. Traveller5 Core Rules
2. MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia (for library data)
3. MegaTraveller Referee's Companion (for alien profiles)
4. Spinward Marches Campaign
5. [A document containing 18 useful entries omitted from the MTIE]


But in a pinch, you can get by with only one: the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia.
 
As an example, here are the library data from MegaTraveller IE, RC, and Fighting Ships (and the material they replace is in parens):


Amber Zone. IE.
Ancients. IE. (AD02 p41. AD03. AD12. M01.)
Anglic. IE.
Antares. IE.
Ansing Expedition. IE.
Antebellum. IE.
Antiquity. IE.
Barracks Emperors. IE.
Battle Rider, Battleship, Battle Tender. FSOTSI.
Behind the Claw. IE.
Belt Mining. IE.
Belter. IE.
Bilstein Yards. IE.
Boat. IE.
Capital. IE.
Chirper (sophont). IE (AD02 p5 (profile).)
Church of the Chosen Ones. IE.
Ciencia Iphegienia. IE.
Civil War. IE.
Client State. IE.
Confederation. IE.
Coyns. IE p21, 49. (AD03.)
Crisis of '99. IE.
Cruiser. FSOTSI.
Currency, Imperial. IE.
Darmine. IE.
Darrian Confederation. IE.
Deneb. IE.
Digest Touring Award. IE.
Directions, Galactic. IE.
Domain. IE.
Emperors of the Flag. IE.
The Emperor's List. IE.
Empire. IE.
Express Boat (100t ship). IE. (AD02 p42. AD03.) T5 Deckplans 1.
False War. IE.
Federation. IE.
The First Frontier War. IE.
The First Imperium. IE.
The First Interstellar War. IE.
The Fourth Frontier War. IE.
Galanglic. IE.
Gas Giant. IE.
General Shipyards. IE.
Glea. IE.
Good War/Bad War. IE (AD07.)
Grand Prince. IE.
Great Rift. IE.
Guaran. IE.
History of the Spinward Marches. IE.
Hiver, Hive Federation. IE.
Holiday Year. IE.
Humaniti, Humans. IE.
Imperial Calendar. RC.
Imperial Edict 97. IE.
The Imperial Nobility. IE.
Imperial Research. IE.
Imperial Rules of War. IE.
Imperial Stationery. IE.
Imperial Sunburst. IE.
Imperial Warrant. IE.
Interdiction. IE.
Iolanthe. IE.
Iridium Throne. IE.
Jump Dimming. IE.
Jumpspace. IE.
Kedzugh, Commonality of. IE.
Kirur, K'Kree. IE.
Kusyu. IE [sic]
Lair. IE.
Lancia. IE.
Lanthanum. IE.
Lesser Rift. IE.
Llellewyloly. IE.
Loeskalth. IE.
Main. IE.
Major Race. IE.
Megacorporations. RC.
Mercenary. IE.
Minor Race. IE.
Moot. IE.
Monadium. IE.
Naval Base. IE. (S09)
Naval Depot. IE. (S09)
Nobility. IE.
Nth Interstellar War. IE.
Octagon Society. IE (AD03.)
Oort Cloud. IE.
Outworld Coalition. IE.
Pacification Campaigns. IE.
Phoenix Project. IE.
Postal Union. IE.
Psionic games, psionics, psionics institute, psionics suppressions. IE.
Psychohistory. IE.
Rachele Society, Rachelean Revolts. IE.
Ramshackle Empire. IE.
Red Zone. IE.
Repatriation Bond. IE.
Robots in the Imperium. RC (AD02 p31+.)
The Research Project. RC.
Rule of Man. IE.
Rule of Terra. IE.
Scout Base. IE.
Second Frontier War. IE.
Second Imperium. IE.
Sector. IE.
Shudusham Concords. IE.
Signal GK (definition). IE (AD13.)
Six Races. IE.
Soegz. IE.
Solomani (humans). IE (AD12. DA03a.)
Solomani autonomous region, confederation, history, hypothesis, movement, rim war, security, sphere. IE.
Sophont (definition). IE (AD12. AD13.)
Sophontology. IE.
Spinward Main. IE.
Spinward Marches. IE.
Strephon. IE.
Subsector. IE.
Superheavy Elements. IE.
Survey, First. IE.
Survey, Second. IE.
SuSAG (corporation). RC (AD09.)
Sword Worlds (humans). IE (AD07. SMC.)
Sylean Federation. IE.
System Defense Boat. IE.
Terra, Terran Confederation. IE.
Third Frontier War. IE.
Third Imperium. IE.
Thoengling Empire. IE.
Trade Routes. IE.
Travel Zone. IE.
Trojan Points. IE.
Tukera Lines (corporation). RC (AD03. AD13.)
Twilight. IE.
Twilight's Peak. IE.
Two Thousand Worlds. IE.
Vargr campaigns, Vargr extents. IE.
Vegan, Vegan autonomous district. IE.
Vilani (humans). IE (AD12. AD13.)
Vland. IE.
War. IE.
Way Station. IE.
Xboat (100t ship). IE (See Express Boat.)
Xboat Station. IE.
Year Zero. IE.
Zhdant. IE.


Here's what the Spinward Marches Campaign adds:

154th Battle Rider Squadron. SMC.
4518th Lift Infantry Regiment. SMC.
Al Morai. SMC.
The Federation of Arden. SMC.
The Fifth Frontier War. SMC, IE.
The Frontier Wars. SMC.
Nolikian (20kt battle rider). SMC.
Sloan (5kt fleet escort). SMC.


And here are the most useful Golden Era entries that MegaTraveller IE and RC omit:

Arkesh Spacers
Artifacts and Ancient Sites
The Baraccai Technum
Bilstein Yards
The Forboldn Project. TTB.
The Gaesh
Ganulf, Manoeuvre of (Fourth Frontier War)
Imperial Fleet
Imperial Navy
Imperial Squadron
InStarSpec
Jamison Factors
MagnetoDynamics
McClellan Factors
Oberlindes Lines
Sinzarmes
Tyrfing Incident
UTP (fledgling line)
Xmail


And here are entries that T5 has added, overridden or expanded on:

Antimatter Battery (artifact)
Black Globe, White Globe etc
Collector
The Frozen Watch
Grav Platforms (artifact)
Kinunir
Patrol Corvette
Scout/Courier
Mindwipe
Personality Overlay
Planetary Core Tap (artifact)
Pocket Universe (artifact)
Portal (artifact)
Shimmersuit (artifact)
Starport
Travellers' Aid Society
 
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I do not care for the MT rules. This is a canon discussion. In those terms, MTIE is most of what I want in library data, and MTRC fills in some gaps.

I bought both secondhand in the 90s, and THAT was worth the price. I would not have paid for the box set, and certainly not new.

But yes, I will still pimp the MTIE. It's on drivethrurpg too. For. Ten. Bucks.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/429/MT-MegaTraveller-Imperial-Encyclopedia?it=1

MTRC is here too.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/395/MT-MegaTraveller-Referees-Companion?it=1
 
robject said:
I do not care for the MT rules. This is a canon discussion. In those terms, MTIE is most of what I want in library data, and MTRC fills in some gaps.
Click to expand...

I understand that this is a canon discussion. You seem to be saying that you cannot have a Traveller canon without including the MegaTraveller books. I am saying that if you are using Classic LBB Traveller, you should use the books that were written for that rule set. The MegaTraveller books were written for the rule set featuring the Rebellion and disintegration of the 3rd Imperium. They are not necessarily canon for the Classic rule set.

I bought both secondhand in the 90s, and THAT was worth the price. I would not have paid for the box set, and certainly not new.

But yes, I will still pimp the MTIE. It's on drivethrurpg too. For. Ten. Bucks.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/429/MT-MegaTraveller-Imperial-Encyclopedia?it=1

MTRC is here too.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/395/MT-MegaTraveller-Referees-Companion?it=1
Click to expand...

As I said, I have them, somewhere in my basement in hard copy. I do not plan to pay for them in digital format. I assume that makes me a heretic in your view. I do have a thread covering my heretical view of an alternate OTU.
 
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