Canonical Squadron/Fleet Actions with Interesting Details

[robject]

What are the canonical space battles for Traveller, which have interesting details and implications for squadron combat? What are the significant events for each of them?

OLAV. ...Where Olav dies during the Civil War (representing that boarding actions are important, as it is written that he had one the battle only to be killed during an incidental boarding action at the end).

BATTLE OF TWO SUNS. The Battle of Two Suns in the 4FW (which represents that battles in the 'outsystem' of two adjacent systems can overlap).

• Losses on both sides were heavy
• lengthening supply lines prevented further "outworlder" advances.
• Had the battle gone the other way, the loss of both Yres and Menorb would have forced the evacuation of Efate (Spinward Marches 1705) and the coreward end of the Regina Subsector would have collapsed.
• A Kinunir Class vessel, the Allamu, was caught in the van, and withstood over four hours of steady attack before suffering screen failure. Lost with all hands.

ARBELLATRA. ...Where Arbellatra kills a rival admiral in a duel is at the end of a massive space battle, isn't it? Or is that where Olav dies per Example 1?

 

[robject]

HIGH GUARD. I don't know of actual accounts, but Traveller holds the High Guard scenario in, uh, high regard: SDBs lurking within the atmosphere layers of a gas giant.

• capital ships' spinal weapons may not be effective or able to bear.
• battles within the GG's atmosphere are in some ways like submarine warfare (orbital spines and nukes are like depth charges)
• battles within the GG's atmosphere are in some ways like dogfights -- including atmospheric stability.

BATTLE OF VELPARE. Battle occurring in -258 near Velpare (Core 1623) between raiding naval squadrons of the Sylean Federation and patrolling squadrons of the Interstellar Confederacy. The Confederacy forces, poorly organized and coordinated, were easily defeated piecemeal by the Sylean commander Admiral Rudolf.

Duped by his easy victory over the system's space defenses, the Admiral decided to disobey orders and also invade the primary planet with his ships' troops. His troops met a devastating defeat at the hands of a well-organized planetary army and defense militia.
Upon his returm to Sylea, Rudolf was court-martialled for overstepping his orders and was expelled from the Sylean Navy in disgrace.


BATTLE OF POROZLO. The Zhodani thrust via Vilis and Lanth subsectors to Rhylanor (Spinward Marches 2716) met a known problem: Rhylanor has no gas giant, but does have a strong naval base. Neighboring Porozlo (Spinward Marches 2715) had a gas giant for quick refueling, and also possessed a naval base of potential use to invading naval forces.

The battle began when a single large Zhodani task force appeared off Porozlo's primary; it proceeded directly to the larger of the two gas giants in the system. The local naval base reacted immediately, even admirably, considering that there was no warning of Zhodani this far from the front lines. However, as the first Zhodani task force refueled, portions of it engaged the local defenses, occupying them as a second task force appeared and drove straight for Porozlo. The threat of action against the planetary defenses and facilities prompted the world organization to declare Porozlo an open world. Naval forces either surrendered or jumped to safety at Rhylanor.

The fall of Porozlo gave the Zhodani a supporting base for their siege of Rhylanor. Ships could easily refuel at the gas giant, jump one parsec to Rhylanor for raids, attacks, or blockade patrols, and still have enough fuel to jump back to Porozlo where a class A starport and the captured naval base stood ready to repair any damage immediately.

The naval defenses of Porozlo have been strengthened considerably since this battle.

 

[robject]

BATTLE OF KAGHUKHASAGGAN. In the closing stages of the Solomani Rim War, an Imperial task force built around the fleet intruder Bard Endeavour was ambushed while refueling in the Kagukhasaggan system by the Solomani dreadnaught Retaliation and a large number of accompanying warships, together forming Strike Force Daring. Several of the smaller Imperial escorts in the high guard position were destroyed covering the disengagement of the Imperal task force from the system's gas giant's gravity well and those ships already refuelled headed out-system at maximum G's to make a jump. To cover the withdrawal, the Bard Endeavour (its tanks nearly dry) remained behind to delay the enemy and sell itself as dearly as possible.

The heroic stand of the Bard Endeavour enabled most of the task force to escape, but left the fleet intruder a glowing wreck in a decaying orbit over Kagukhasaggan 2, one of the small inner worlds of the system. Those crew still living began evacuating the doomed vessel, although many were cut off in the interior of the stricken vessel.

Based upon the interrogation of the evacuated crews, the Solomani felt the ship was still intact enough to attempt a highly risky in-system jump. The Solomani assembled three stike teams. One entered through the read doors of the boat dock deck to clear the jump drive deck and repair the jump drives if possible. The second team forced their way onto the ship via the fighter recovery lock on deck 69 and crippled the four remaning fighters. The third part forced the air locks on deck 41 and cleared deck 40 above it. A handful of marines and crew resisted the first strike team and denied the Solomani from salvaging the ship. The three strike teams evacuated. Three hours later the Imperial Fleet Intruder Bard Endeavor, with 43 of her defenders still aboard, suffered catastropic reentry into the atmosphere of Kagukhasaggan 2.

 

[rancke]

BATTLE OF TWO SUNS. The Battle of Two Suns in the 4FW (which represents that battles in the 'outsystem' of two adjacent systems can overlap).

• Losses on both sides were heavy
• lengthening supply lines prevented further "outworlder" advances.
• Had the battle gone the other way, the loss of both Yres and Menorb would have forced the evacuation of Efate (Spinward Marches 1705) and the coreward end of the Regina Subsector would have collapsed.
• A Kinunir Class vessel, the Allamu, was caught in the van, and withstood over four hours of steady attack before suffering screen failure. Lost with all hands.

The Battle of the Two Suns is one of those early bits of canon that it may be best to quietly ignore. There are several of the bits you quote that are, ahem, rather difficult to fit into a coherent picture of post-HG naval warfare. And it's not even the heroic four-hour stand of that mighty 1,200T cruiser the Allamu that's the worst bit . That honor goes to the prospective evacuation of high-population Efate. Just why would even the total defeat of an entire fleet render the system defenses that, twenty years later, withstood a siege for many months ineffective? And just how would you go about evacuating several billion people anyway? :nonono:

(And just how did two mighty battlefleets meet each other midways between Yres and Menorb? )

Hans

 

[mike wightman]

Easy - retcon the Kinunir class to being a real HG battlecruiser.

As to how the two fleets ended up there...

Arden.

The Imps and Zhos got info on calibration points in the Oort cloud betwixt systems from the same source.

The cynical would suggest that the spymasters of Arden wanted the Imps and Zhos to fight to a standstill...

 

[Theophilus]

Of course if you have T20 TA9 Solomani Warships, there are several fleet actions described, in quite a bit of detail.

Or the loss of Cruron 247 to the Vargr

Or the Starrider incident from High Passage.

 

[Condottiere]

I've studied Fighting Ships of the Solomani, and they cripple themselves practically at the very start of their campaign. The surprise is that the Imperium needs twelve years to force them to conclude a ceasefire.

 

[rancke]

Easy - retcon the Kinunir class to being a real HG battlecruiser.

Better to make the Allamu a different class. It would be a pity to invalidate the deck plans for the Kinunir Class.

As to how the two fleets ended up there...

Arden.

The Imps and Zhos got info on calibration points in the Oort cloud betwixt systems from the same source.

And, since neither of them considered the possibility that they would happen to meet a full fleet there to be at all likely, they both sent a small task force to destroy the calibration point. By a staggering coincidence, the two task forces just happened to arrive at pretty much the same time, something that the Arden masterminds could not possible have timed to happen, given jump variation and the uncertainty of interstellar movements. By another staggering coincidence the two forces were so evenly matched that they both decided to stay and fight it out.

I mean, it's not like the Imperium had to fight lest the loss of the battle would cause the loss of both Yres and Menorb, force the evacuation of Efate, and cause the collapse of the coreward end of the Regina Subsector.

The cynical would suggest that the spymasters of Arden wanted the Imps and Zhos to fight to a standstill...

The analytical would also wonder who was intercepting whom and where the intercepted fleet was coming from and where it was going.


Hans

 

[kilemall]

The cynical would suggest that the spymasters of Arden wanted the Imps and Zhos to fight to a standstill...

Never miss a chance for Hiver event engineering to rear its tentacley head.

 

[RandyB]

Never miss a chance for Hiver event engineering to rear its tentacley head.

Whereas I always dismiss such as too easy to invoke.

Besides, this is on the opposite end of the Imperium from the Hivers. Canonically, I don't think they have that much reach.

 

[Spartan159]

Whereas I always dismiss such as too easy to invoke.

Besides, this is on the opposite end of the Imperium from the Hivers. Canonically, I don't think they have that much reach.

Isn't there a hiver group in the marches? And k'kree for that matter. Damn if I remember where I saw that.

 

[DonM]

While it's not a 'space battle' as such, there are two events in the AHL scenarios... First is the Zhodani seizing of the Vermillion Stance, and the second is the failed Vargr attempt to seize the Emissary.

Also (since I've pointed them out to Rob before, I know he knows this...) Triplanetary and Belter have some scenarios that could potentially exist within the pre-contact Terran history of the OTU. Those should be of interest to Mayday fans, since Mayday is basically a Traveller 'reskinning' of Triplanetary.

 

[mike wightman]

How about Double Star?

 

[DonM]

Double Star has some oddities, and I've never played it :rofl:

 

[Easterner9504]

forced the evacuation of Efate...

I do not recall the context but it is likely that it refers to evacuation of military forces ala Dunkirk & Crete not planetary civilian population.

Kinunir class

As I've mentioned before. Thomas Jefferson proposed that the USN's small but powerful fleet be scrapped and replaced with small coastal gunboats incapable of ocean travel.

In the War of 1812 the USN's few ships were able to win a multitude of victories over the nearly unbeatable Royal Navy till overwhelmed by numbers. The gunboats failed of course.

Kinunir merely represents another effort to build CHEAP small powerful ships that failed, so they got reassigned to other more suitable duty.

It reoccurred in WW2 when Roosevelt wanted lots of mid-sized carriers and the Admirals said NO! They wanted the giant Coral Sea class carrier.

 

[rancke]

forced the evacuation of Efate...

I do not recall the context but it is likely that it refers to evacuation of military forces ala Dunkirk & Crete not planetary civilian population.

This is the same Efate that is defended by planetary defenses worth, if I haven't made a mistake in my calculations, 18 trillion credits (Striker figures) that 20 years later withstood a siege for many months.

Kinunir class

As I've mentioned before. Thomas Jefferson proposed that the USN's small but powerful fleet be scrapped and replaced with small coastal gunboats incapable of ocean travel.

In the War of 1812 the USN's few ships were able to win a multitude of victories over the nearly unbeatable Royal Navy till overwhelmed by numbers. The gunboats failed of course.

The American 44-gun frigates with their scantlings like battleships won a number of single-ship actions against British 38-gun ships, true. I don't think 'multitude' is the mot juste though. And as the fight between the Shannon and the Chesapeake showed, the Royal Navy was able to win battles against the USN when the odds were equal.

Kinunir merely represents another effort to build CHEAP small powerful ships that failed, so they got reassigned to other more suitable duty.

That's your retcon? Is there anything about the design that makes it especially cheap and/or powerful?

My suggestion (for a retcon) is that the Kinunir was conceived as a hide-in-plain-sight test bed for several secret projects. Originally intended as a 25,000T cruiser, its design by committee and budgetary problems eventually reduced it to 1,250T escort (though still referred to as a cruiser). The unusually low production run of 24 is also due to limited research budgets. Usually the IN orders its cruisers by the scores and its escorts by the hundreds.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Isn't there a hiver group in the marches? And k'kree for that matter. Damn if I remember where I saw that.

The K'kree send those that they trust (or just dislike intensely) on "embassy missions" into Imperial space. It is a prestigious assignment that will probably leave the designated Ambassador and much of his family mentally scarred for life. The CT K'kree book mentions that these embassy missions reach all corners of the Imperium, and the scenarios in that book and CT Alien Realms document embassies all the way out behind the Claw.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

The Battle of Two Suns.

Has anyone thought about the Zhodani Pre-Cog Artifact?

Maybe Zho High Command "saw" a battle at Two Suns and thus sent an appropriate force to the calibration point that the Imperials are on the way to destroy having received info about it from the Federation of Arden intel community.

See problem solved and even get to work in the Arden intel weenies too.

 

[Easterner9504]

357,628,220,000cr cost of Tigris 500,000t

1,345,210,000cr cost of Kinunir 1,200t

So do you want 350 Kinunir or 1 Tigris, Admirals?

Your retcon is very good, slightly similar to the CL Yubari which didn't shrink but was the basis for the similarly sized deadly IJN DD's and the awesome CA's built after the Yubari which was conceived as a test bed for CL design to skirt the Washington treaty limits, and ended up creating something different.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Damn, I have to pick the Soviet answer.

357,628,220,000cr cost of Tigris 500,000t

1,345,210,000cr cost of Kinunir 1,200t

So do you want 350 Kinunir or 1 Tigris, Admirals?

Your retcon is very good, slightly similar to the CL Yubari which didn't shrink but was the basis for the similarly sized deadly IJN DD's and the awesome CA's built after the Yubari which was conceived as a test bed for CL design to skirt the Washington treaty limits, and ended up creating something different.

I find that as I think about that question, I keep coming back to designs like the Mi-24 Hind and the Merkava MBT and I have to say...

"Gentlebeings of the Fleet, now hear this.

Yes, the ISN Tigris is an extremely large ship, damned near a Class C SP on her own, fighters, secondaries to beat the band, and that spinal.

All that is true, but her size makes her easy to hit with our battery fire, her fighters will have to deal with the same AA fire as we will and her batteries are so tightly connected as to leave large holes till they give each secondary local control, and last we have umpty-thousand battle hardened Drop Marines who are about to make an Assualt for The Books.

It is an honor to be with you today, and a greater one should we survive this day. Good luck and good hunting!

Commence Operation: Scattergun!

Fleet Actual, over, out and clear."