The best I can say that I have done is to say that I fixed some problems in the fields of electrical engineering and computer science much faster and better than most others. Have taken the slings and arrows the universe has sent my way and am sitting here in Alaska, being happy.
Classic Traveller getting stale?
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
It's not what you've "Done", it is what you tried to do.
And, I've not gotten anything more than Pitch time with SpaceX so no promises they'll try it
And, even if they do, it's Jordin's program, and much of his team is still available. So, for all my pushing, I haven't got any rights so I won't get paid.
But, the idea is the leave the world as much better as I can.
And, now I get to fight insurance companies to force them to pay what they owe home owners.....so, work is fun!
Remember: The rules require that posts containing personal attacks or perceived personal attacks are not to be responded to publicly.
I think I reversed the personal attack infraction issued, but a half-dozen posts in the above are violations of that rule.
I'm not going through and infracting everyone involved because I'm essentially lazy and hopeful that it's settled. It is worth noting that my read of Marcatlas' was the same as Truestar's initial read: a direct implication of falsehood.
I think I reversed the personal attack infraction issued, but a half-dozen posts in the above are violations of that rule.
I'm not going through and infracting everyone involved because I'm essentially lazy and hopeful that it's settled. It is worth noting that my read of Marcatlas' was the same as Truestar's initial read: a direct implication of falsehood.
A number of other games did likewise in the 80's. It's not unique to, nor original to, Traveller.
Essentially, Traveller didn't have a timeline advancement until 1980 or later. It didn't have a timeline until JTAS 2, really. And Loren gave us a specific printing date: 274-1105. But I'll note that the included events are all set prior to Issue 1's 183-1105 date.
So JTAS 2 starts shareing the timeline in Oct 1979, with events set in Apr 7 & 11. That 101-1105 is probably the most overlooked setting tweak:
JTAS 2 p5 said:
As to others. About the same time, the boardgame Starfire was rereleased in 1979 with a timeline based scenario sequence; Starfire 2 in 1980 was a direct sequel, duplicating the core combat rules, but only adding new systems in the ship building rules, and adding new tech and the rules for it, and extending the timeline another dozen years. (It continued to slowly do this until 1993.)
The [US] National Mah Jongg League had started publishing new scoring cards annually by the 1970's as well, but would sell you back cards while supplies lasted - no discounts! While not a narrative-generating game, ongoing continuity and constant change were part of gaming before Traveller ever saw print. (Each yeah, what hands score what is altered in US-NMJL play. I don't play NJML; I play a variant of Riichi, which has fixed scoring.)
Sports Illustrated had a 1971 Baseball game, and released updated team cards in 1972 and 1973... https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4642/sports-illustrated-baseball
D&D, however, was also doing timeline bits. 1978 had a 6 adventure sequence: G1, G2, G3, D1, D2, D3. G2 and G3 can stand alone, but are intended to be direct sequels in sequence. D2 directly leads into D3, and D2 works best as a direct follow on to D1. D1 can be entered from other than G3, but is intended to be essentially G4, save for the change in primary antagonists.
The final goal in D3 leads direct to Q1, 1980. Note that later reprints assemble them... first into the set G1-3, D1-2, D3, Q1, then later still into GDQ. A few other module series from later had internal timelines, too - most notable being the Dragonlance modules... but thats a bit down the road.
The thing is, D&D timelines in period are short runs... Traveller was the first RPG I know of to have an ongoing singular official timeline, but the idea of timelines was a thing beforehand.
I'll note that the scenarios in Star Fleet Battles were never direct timeline advancement until 3rd edition (Commander's) with module X, but instead filling out the grand timeline otherwise. Module X shjifted the end point from Y190 to Y230. The SFB master timeline was there from Designer's edition on (that's 2nd ed, in late 1980).
Marc's been plenty clear that the overarching timeline and setting wasn't conceived of with the game itself; it was an outgrowth of fan demand. One that, once they started, they really doubled down on it. Without being obvious.
Gary Gygax was also advancing the timeline of the World of Greyhawk in a few issues of his 'From the Sorcerer's Scroll' column in Dragon from about 1981 onwards - at least until the management problems at TSR got in his way. Given his (then) often expressed approval of GDW and Traveller, I always wondered if he saw what JTAS was doing and thought it would be a good thing to do with Greyhawk.
Quite likely, but there's not much evidence for GDW doing it before the sequential adventures of TSR.
GDW's innovation of 1979 is not the timeline, it's following in Greg Stafford, Steve Perrin and Ray Tourney's footsteps... 1978's RuneQuest introduces a singular world for the game, and all support focusing there, while never denigrating doing one's own variant. (RQ setting was Greg, Rules were Perrin and Tourney. Publisher: The Chaosium.) I have no idea if GDW was Aware of RQ at the time... and haven't asked... but RQ and post 1979 Traveller both became known for the setting over the rules,
I honestly always saw the advancement of the canon timeline for the Imperium in JTAS as less akin to the serialization of modules ala TSR and more like adding a layer of "historicity" or verisimilitude to the game as they leaned into a having canon setting - in much the same way wargamers would serialize their own wargame campaigns or thought experiment through actual history (again not unheard of in wargaming circles of the time). I think people forget sometimes (or don't know if they aren't grognards) how much GDW did with wargames - this was the heyday of Europa after all. On very real level, at the time, GDW felt much more like a wargame company that happened to do an RPG than an RPG company that put out wargames (I mean, seriously, it was *a lot* of wargames).
They literally did the game to flesh out their 2000-2300 history.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If you think CT is getting stale go back to where it all began and look at all the plot threads dangling away, and that's before JTAS TAS news...
Yeah, that really informed IMTU, that and the old JG and PP sectors. While I draw heavily from everything that came after (and use CE for my engine these days), I still have a very soft part in my heart for Traveller 4-4-4...
Not stale, overbuilt is how I would describe it.
Imagine starting a Traveller campaign today. There is a vast, and I mean a VAST, amount of world building that is already done out there. Where and how do you start? Which game system to use? What setting? What time period?
The rebooting of The Rebellion and The Virus does not make it easier. For folks who have delved deep into OTU, knowing how all of this fits together is easy. For the person who is just starting out, it is overwhelming.
After I had selected Corridor and the year 1085 as the start point for my campaign, I discovered that Spinward Flow suggested a setting with time of 1085 near the Marches. I like the way he thinks. ;-) As he noted, this allowed usage of lots of existing materials yet is far enough back to avoid having all those icky other events intrude on the campaign. My choice of Strand/Corridor was based on access to extra-Imperial border but the existing Canon limited my options there as well.
But then I thought "Charted Space" means there is "Uncharted Space".
Yes.....
We now believe the Milky Way Galaxy is about 1000 light years "thick" in the spiral arms. This is about 300 parsecs or hexes. We all know that the game produced a flat map because it was easier at the time but today. Today, I put Reference at 151 on the Z axis and go from there.
I decided to treat the "Charted Space" map as a subway map. Useful to show connections but not accurate in actual dimensions. Take that flat map and cut it up so that only J1 and X-boat jump routes are still connected. Any loose bits that need a J2 to be connected get that. All the rest is "Uncharted Space". Take all those loose pieces and bend them up or down into a vertical space. Not an original idea but it was for me. lol
Now those J1 mains, J2 choke points and J4 x-boat routes are essential and every hex has three additional above and below.
All those empty hexes? Fill 'em. On spaces within 5 of existing Charted Space, keep TL less than 11. Beyond that let the dice do their thing.
You now have a huge play space that is unique but can still use the 3I canon, if desired. The players can actually earn credits for exploring beyond Charted Space. Mega corporations have reasons to fund trade missions into the unknown. Neo-barbarians, pocket empires and strange sophants are possible with in a half dozen jumps from anywhere. Surely the Imperial Navy and the ISS have done more exploring into this but the results are not published. A megacorp may delay reporting a profitable find or even enter into a trade arrangement with that pocket empire before reporting the discovery.
I felt the existing OTU was over built and constrained so I built a playing space that is orthogonal to the published materials. Much better than The Virus, IMNHO.
Of course, I also have opinions about small ship vs big ship but that is for another thread.
Imagine starting a Traveller campaign today. There is a vast, and I mean a VAST, amount of world building that is already done out there. Where and how do you start? Which game system to use? What setting? What time period?
The rebooting of The Rebellion and The Virus does not make it easier. For folks who have delved deep into OTU, knowing how all of this fits together is easy. For the person who is just starting out, it is overwhelming.
After I had selected Corridor and the year 1085 as the start point for my campaign, I discovered that Spinward Flow suggested a setting with time of 1085 near the Marches. I like the way he thinks. ;-) As he noted, this allowed usage of lots of existing materials yet is far enough back to avoid having all those icky other events intrude on the campaign. My choice of Strand/Corridor was based on access to extra-Imperial border but the existing Canon limited my options there as well.
But then I thought "Charted Space" means there is "Uncharted Space".
Yes.....
We now believe the Milky Way Galaxy is about 1000 light years "thick" in the spiral arms. This is about 300 parsecs or hexes. We all know that the game produced a flat map because it was easier at the time but today. Today, I put Reference at 151 on the Z axis and go from there.
I decided to treat the "Charted Space" map as a subway map. Useful to show connections but not accurate in actual dimensions. Take that flat map and cut it up so that only J1 and X-boat jump routes are still connected. Any loose bits that need a J2 to be connected get that. All the rest is "Uncharted Space". Take all those loose pieces and bend them up or down into a vertical space. Not an original idea but it was for me. lol
Now those J1 mains, J2 choke points and J4 x-boat routes are essential and every hex has three additional above and below.
All those empty hexes? Fill 'em. On spaces within 5 of existing Charted Space, keep TL less than 11. Beyond that let the dice do their thing.
You now have a huge play space that is unique but can still use the 3I canon, if desired. The players can actually earn credits for exploring beyond Charted Space. Mega corporations have reasons to fund trade missions into the unknown. Neo-barbarians, pocket empires and strange sophants are possible with in a half dozen jumps from anywhere. Surely the Imperial Navy and the ISS have done more exploring into this but the results are not published. A megacorp may delay reporting a profitable find or even enter into a trade arrangement with that pocket empire before reporting the discovery.
I felt the existing OTU was over built and constrained so I built a playing space that is orthogonal to the published materials. Much better than The Virus, IMNHO.
Of course, I also have opinions about small ship vs big ship but that is for another thread.
I had a similar but kind of opposite situation, I've been playing so long huge swaths of my game were spent in now de-canonized areas (the Paranoia Press sectors and the Judges Guild Sectors) plus bits and pieces of the FASA sectors. It's a choice to break away from canon and more an acknowledgement that canon broke away from me...
Plus I developed many things that were vague "back in the day" but have slowly been developed with a fair amount of detail over the years.
D.
casquilho
SOC-13
Even as someone who has played for years, I feel overwhelmed by the vast amount of information. So much data out there and I have so little brain storage space. Add to the mix the fact there are editions of Traveller I have not bought nor read, whole swaths of information I do not have the time nor money to try and gather.
I love this forum for many reasons, but sometimes I just walk away from a conversation, not because it is bad, but because the super fans have made me realize I can never really discuss official Traveller on their level. I have never read or owned a GURPs product. I missed Traveller 4 as I was taking a rest from RPGs when it arrived. The d20 version was not on my buy list as I did not want to switch Traveller to d20. I will stop here as I am sure you understand my point.
I have accepted a long time ago, Traveller for me, will always be an inspiration to explore. But it will never really be stale, rather it will never be complete.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
I ditched the OTU and never looked back. Stuck with 2300 instead of following the other successor versions so found near future Earth is my thing. For me the OTU is a thought experiment of how to do world building, worth thinking through things as an exercise but not a setting for me.
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I've always liked Solomani Space. More of a Cold War fee at the Rim. And if you get away from all the nazis/communist in space it can have the same feel as the Marches. Also, a lot of room for exploration and a chance to add other Aliens some friendly and others not so friendly. In OT outside of the Rim was the great unknown and that made it easy to make up your own systems and add whatever in the way of aliens and alien civilizations you wanted.
Ildefonse
SOC-9
When I first returned to CT 10+ years ago (after diversions with MgT1e) I deliberately chose the Beyond and Far Frontiers sectors for my games, due to the Third Imperium setting's vastness. It was far easier to wave the TI away in these sectors, and just treat "The Third Imperium" as "The Imperium". Now I just use my own setting, and consider CT fresh as in 1978 when we first started playing.
Nice. I have not seen a reference to Fletcher Pratt in a long time.
Rule sets that are well designed should be as playable now as when published. The experienced gamer will always find edge cases to complain about but by the time rules get published, they are generally playable. Tactics II was a nice example of how wargames worked for me.
Pentatomic divisions for the win. Not so 5 unit after nukes though, which was the point.
