Colin: Ditch France
- Thread starter fact275
- Start date
You mean it didn't?
The level of domination the French has seems to be declining. French domination was mostly due to the fact that they got the lions share of Earths tantalum. Now with the lodes at King, Crater and (the Manchu colony whose name escapes me, the one on Zeta Tucanae?), France share of tantalum, and thus shipping is decreasing.
The Aussie, by selling most of theirs have essentially broken open star travel to any nation willing to pay.
First: the Franks were Germanic tribes. In fact, they seem to have been composed of many of the groups Tacitus described in his book "Germania".
Second, three hundred years without conflict would go a long way towards making any Franco-British suspicion an antique prejudice. People would barely even know that the two countries had ever been in conflict. Meanwhile, the two groups would be regularly intermarrying and carrying on day to day interactions to a degree where it would be difficult to tell the two apart...
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In general, the only two countries I would care about in 2320 would be Papua and Elysia.
The canonical 2300 version of Australia isn't a place I would be prepared to live, so I've adopted Papua as a surrogate. Obviously it's not going to have its own colonies, but at least some of its citizens will be "out there". On the other hand, if it is too well defined, it would probably lose a lot of its attractiveness. So I guess I would prefer it to be more or less left alone - its existence noted, but otherwise not particularly explained or expanded upon.
For what it's worth, the canonical borders of "Papua" look very much like somebody was drawing arbitrary lines on a map without looking at the actual situation on the ground. Rationalising the results is rather challenging, and probably shouldn't be attempted in canon, given the high probability of making a comple pigs ear of it.
Elysia is obviously also interesting, as it struggles with a partially destroyed and originally rather limited economy, political factionalism and external enemies. On the other hand, enough time would have passed by 2320 for the situation to have stabilised, one way or another. I suppose what I would really like to see is a presentation of this situation that is ambiguous enough that the resulting system can be seen as either a bold experiment struggling against the odds, a terrible tyranny, or both, depending on the observer's prejudices.
Simply stating that it is one or the other would be the worst way of approaching the matter, IMHO.
So, I guess I would like to see very little on Papua, and only rather ambiguous material on Elysia! Hmm...
Well, inb the last two-hundred years the French and Germans have fought four wars. The French and British have only fought one, and that was 190 years ago.
A powerful France dominating Europe is frighteningly possible. It certainly was Chirac's wet dream, although his bullying the Eastern countries over Iraq may have pushed it back some.
A powerful France dominating Europe is frighteningly possible. It certainly was Chirac's wet dream, although his bullying the Eastern countries over Iraq may have pushed it back some.
Erik Boielle
SOC-12
The French flavour is kinda cool. Gives a really unique feel to the setting.
Took me a while to warm up to it mind. But I think it grows on you.
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Maybe a supplement about Why France Is Cool would help.
It could contain lists of french songs to play during sessions, food to serve to get the right ambiance, a style guide showing rurual french communities...
Took me a while to warm up to it mind. But I think it grows on you.
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Maybe a supplement about Why France Is Cool would help.
It could contain lists of french songs to play during sessions, food to serve to get the right ambiance, a style guide showing rurual french communities...
I think "historic" is the key word. I don't think they see it that way across the Pond, these days. The French have turned much of their anglophone resentment on us (the US), and I think the British see France primarily as a source of inexpensive booze, not a hereditary enemy.
And remember, in the northern third of the island, France is traditionally considered the "auld alliance".
As to the Franks, IIRC you brought up an imagined conflict between the Franks and the German tribes. The Franks and Saxons had a messy war, but they were both German tribes at the time.
Me, personally, I think the British should not have made the Chunnel wide enough to accept a Le Clerc tank.
jwcarroll60
SOC-12
I play Anti-French, either directly or indirectly, whenever I play 2300AD. If playing above the individual RPG scale I ususally am allied with other anti-frog powers as well.
epicenter00
SOC-13
Hello, list! This is my first post here, but I've been a member of CotI for some time now.
As a matter of fact, I was once fact275's GM for 2300, that rather infamously not so pro-American guy and as often, I do disagree with him in degrees.
For the record, I don't think France should be ditched, but certainly they've taken some dents in their power since the Kafer War. But just like the US wasn't finished after Viet Nam, it's up in the air if France is finished after their pretty dismal performance during the Kafer War.
But I do find it a little unrealistic how any single country (France or not) could be a number one world power for 300 years. If you think back what the world was like 300 years ago from 2005, back in Europe, men thought wearing bright colors, tights, and powdered wigs as perfectly masculine and that's just the beginning. It's my personal theory in retrospect that GDW made France #1 on purpose to rankle people as well as set a straw man "evil empire" they could have be the whipping boy of the Kafers without anyone complaining too much.
Besides the example of the 19th century colonialism being 2300's basic layout, I didn't so much pretend France wasn't #1 in my games. It was. To me, it's similar to real-life today. Most people do not spend every waking hour talking about how America is the only superpower left and so on. They have more pressing concerns, like if that next cargo of Pentapod goods are going to get seized or if the Kafers in that abandoned Ukranian farm down the road are going to come over and kill them.
And...does anyone know how that "Game" they played over at GDW worked? What was it? Like 5 year turns? 10 year turns? And the guys who were playing CivGov and MilGov and what were they on? And can I have some?
So, unless there was a nova or a supernova in some star between the American Arm and Kafer/Ylii space, there has to be a Brown Dwarf or perhaps the Ylii used disposable Stutterwarps - unlikely considering they could have just gone up into Kafer Space and into the French Arm or whatever.
As a matter of fact, I was once fact275's GM for 2300, that rather infamously not so pro-American guy and as often, I do disagree with him in degrees.
For the record, I don't think France should be ditched, but certainly they've taken some dents in their power since the Kafer War. But just like the US wasn't finished after Viet Nam, it's up in the air if France is finished after their pretty dismal performance during the Kafer War.
But I do find it a little unrealistic how any single country (France or not) could be a number one world power for 300 years. If you think back what the world was like 300 years ago from 2005, back in Europe, men thought wearing bright colors, tights, and powdered wigs as perfectly masculine and that's just the beginning. It's my personal theory in retrospect that GDW made France #1 on purpose to rankle people as well as set a straw man "evil empire" they could have be the whipping boy of the Kafers without anyone complaining too much.
Besides the example of the 19th century colonialism being 2300's basic layout, I didn't so much pretend France wasn't #1 in my games. It was. To me, it's similar to real-life today. Most people do not spend every waking hour talking about how America is the only superpower left and so on. They have more pressing concerns, like if that next cargo of Pentapod goods are going to get seized or if the Kafers in that abandoned Ukranian farm down the road are going to come over and kill them.
And...does anyone know how that "Game" they played over at GDW worked? What was it? Like 5 year turns? 10 year turns? And the guys who were playing CivGov and MilGov and what were they on? And can I have some?
It's not entirely dodgy. I am certain that GDW had it planned. If you look at the list of current and former Ylii colony worlds in the Kafer Sourcebook, it pretty clearly lists that some are in the American Arm. Considering there aren't Ylii ruins along the French Arm, it's clear that there is (or was) some method by which the Ylii had crept into the supposedly "dead-end" American Arm from the direction of their homeworlds.
So, unless there was a nova or a supernova in some star between the American Arm and Kafer/Ylii space, there has to be a Brown Dwarf or perhaps the Ylii used disposable Stutterwarps - unlikely considering they could have just gone up into Kafer Space and into the French Arm or whatever.
And that's all I'd expect from one of the hairy barbarians from the north
I really don't know why Scottish people have such a problem with us English. It grates on me whenever England manages to get into a sporting competition to find our northern neighbours would much rather support the other side, whoever it is (even France!), than us, when we are all quite happy to cheer on England, Scotland or Wales. The English, I think, are more UK centric than any of our home isle neighbours.But, back to topic, as an Englishman I will say that France is a lovely country, full of fine wines, lovely food, magnificent buildings and cultural attractions. Shame it's also got loads of French people there to spoil it all.
G
I must have missed something. The Colonial Atlas makes no mention of alien artefacts on the American Arm, although one Challenge article but an ancient base on the arm.
The articles AECA, Overview of the American Arm and the non-canonical "Exploration American Style" mention no Ylii artefacts.
The articles AECA, Overview of the American Arm and the non-canonical "Exploration American Style" mention no Ylii artefacts.
jwcarroll60
SOC-12
French? What French? I was mostly gaming the 'Back Door' campaign. Winning the hearts and minds of the Ylii and killin' plenty of Kafer bugs.
epicenter00
SOC-13
That's because it's in the Kafer Sourcebook, not in any of the locations you mentioned.
From page 101 of the Kafer Sourcebook in the section titled "Ylii History":
"Ruins of this acnient, starfaring civilization have already been discovered by humans ... on Ross 863 I and DM +5 3409 I, both in the American Arm. Xenoarcheological studies of these ruins have, so far, yielded no clues to their builders ... so far at least, it is assumed the two sets of ruins were constructed by two separate species."
"
Well, Ross 863 is a planetless system, with a debris ring, so the sudden appearance of a new planet is a surprise.
DM +5 3409 I is also a slight surprise, called Erie in operation backdoor, which adds a whole new small colony on this world. However, it should be noted that Operation Backdoor is not canonical, and the convoluted plot is largely nonsensical.
In fact, with Erie and "Ploughshare", that brings the uncolonised worlds in this region to 5, exluding any that lie in the 9 (yes, 9!) unexplored systems on the American Arm (which may extend further, the Arm hits the map edge) and 14 more systems in the Beta Aquilae region if you include this non-canonical article.
http://games.tiltedworld.com/2300AD/downloads/american_arm_redux.pdf
DM +5 3409 I is also a slight surprise, called Erie in operation backdoor, which adds a whole new small colony on this world. However, it should be noted that Operation Backdoor is not canonical, and the convoluted plot is largely nonsensical.
In fact, with Erie and "Ploughshare", that brings the uncolonised worlds in this region to 5, exluding any that lie in the 9 (yes, 9!) unexplored systems on the American Arm (which may extend further, the Arm hits the map edge) and 14 more systems in the Beta Aquilae region if you include this non-canonical article.
http://games.tiltedworld.com/2300AD/downloads/american_arm_redux.pdf
Well, I might as well put in my two cents...
Keep France.
I like it because it makes 2300AD/2320AD different. It automatically and gracefully lets the players know that they are 'Not In Kansas Anymore'. I like Manchuria as a nascent superpower in 2320AD for the same reason. Ditto Anzania.
Do I buy the MilGov/CivGov split inherited from GDW's 'Great Game'? No, but I know enough history to realize that weirder things have happened.
If you told a Roman of 60CE that Britain would be a world spanning superpower and rule an empire amny times larger than Rome 18 centuries in the future he'd laugh himself sick. If you told an European in 1830 that Germany would unite the way it did, beat France like a red-headed step child, and nearly win a world war against France, Britain, and Russia they'd lock you up in the booby farm.
Keep France. It makes the game seem odd enough to be real. It also gives the game; rightly or wringly, a useful boogeyman. France in 2300/2320AD is blamed for everything whether it had a hand it the events or not. (In my few 2300AD games, France was always blamed but rarely involved.)
Again, we can see the historical echo. In the mainstream south Asian press, a US science experiment was blamed for the 2005 Boxing Day quake and tsunamis. During late shuttle Columbia's last flight, a rare tornado hit Turkish Cyprus and Arab media blamed it on an US/Isreali experiment aboard. Every superpower always gets blamed for eveything.
Keep France. It works.
Have fun,
Bill
Keep France.
I like it because it makes 2300AD/2320AD different. It automatically and gracefully lets the players know that they are 'Not In Kansas Anymore'. I like Manchuria as a nascent superpower in 2320AD for the same reason. Ditto Anzania.
Do I buy the MilGov/CivGov split inherited from GDW's 'Great Game'? No, but I know enough history to realize that weirder things have happened.
If you told a Roman of 60CE that Britain would be a world spanning superpower and rule an empire amny times larger than Rome 18 centuries in the future he'd laugh himself sick. If you told an European in 1830 that Germany would unite the way it did, beat France like a red-headed step child, and nearly win a world war against France, Britain, and Russia they'd lock you up in the booby farm.
Keep France. It makes the game seem odd enough to be real. It also gives the game; rightly or wringly, a useful boogeyman. France in 2300/2320AD is blamed for everything whether it had a hand it the events or not. (In my few 2300AD games, France was always blamed but rarely involved.)
Again, we can see the historical echo. In the mainstream south Asian press, a US science experiment was blamed for the 2005 Boxing Day quake and tsunamis. During late shuttle Columbia's last flight, a rare tornado hit Turkish Cyprus and Arab media blamed it on an US/Isreali experiment aboard. Every superpower always gets blamed for eveything.
Keep France. It works.
Have fun,
Bill
epicenter00
SOC-13
Thanks for the link, I'm always looking for more 2300 stuff to read.
Perhaps the Ylii blew themselves up on Ross 863...
I don't really know. It's just what the Kafer Sourcebook says.
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