Colin: Ditch France
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The British build their own warheads (and have enough stored material for between 500-1000 warheads, and could churn them out at a huge rate).
After JFK cancelled the Anglo-American Skybolt, and we cancelled TSR-2 (the B-2 of the 60's), the quick fix was Polaris, which was updated to Trident (because the RN won the political battle).
The British also had other tac nuke delivery systems, including Tornado GR, Jaguar, Lance and the 8" Howitzer...
After JFK cancelled the Anglo-American Skybolt, and we cancelled TSR-2 (the B-2 of the 60's), the quick fix was Polaris, which was updated to Trident (because the RN won the political battle).
The British also had other tac nuke delivery systems, including Tornado GR, Jaguar, Lance and the 8" Howitzer...
Hmmm... 'Van'... Let's see...
Been a member since June of 2003...
First post is November of 2005...
Four posts altogther...
Two posts bitching about the 2320AD release while obviously ignoring Mr. Gordon's message on the site's front page...
One post bitching about the HH release while again ignoring the front page message...
And one post bashing France...
Tell me again why is anyone even paying any attention to this fellow? Consider the messenger.
Bill
The only good point about this post is the 300 year reign issue, which isn't very accurate IMO. France is in a position of preeminence, but they don't 'possess' Earth or space territory in any from that could be thought of in the majority and at any period during that timeline.
Would I be wrong in assuming (given all the unwritten or undocumented history) that France's influence has indeed waxed and waned during this time as well?
Any leading country would be fine with me. I find France different, but not extremely so. Personally I would be happier to see someone completely out of the blue arise to such a position - just to mix it up alittle.
Would I be wrong in assuming (given all the unwritten or undocumented history) that France's influence has indeed waxed and waned during this time as well?
Any leading country would be fine with me. I find France different, but not extremely so. Personally I would be happier to see someone completely out of the blue arise to such a position - just to mix it up alittle.
Oh yes let us dispense with 300 years of proven and recorded history as being "political". Look how France fared during the first 2 world wars. Now two good candidates for having avoided being involved in WWIII and would have been in a good position to avoid the damage would be Australia and New Zealand. Both would have been far enough from the main fighting in Europe to escape unscathed. Also the educated and doers would have seen the coming of WWIII and would have sought somewhere far enough away to likely to be safe, and both countries clearly fit the bill.
Unfortunately, Australia and New Zealand currently have more than enough environmental and resource-depletion problems of their own. They may well solve these, but they´re not going to dominate anything anytime soon.
I´d rather look in the direction of India, or Brazil, for a medium-term candidate for leadership.
I´d rather look in the direction of India, or Brazil, for a medium-term candidate for leadership.
It's the background of the game. It's been that way since it was first developed. France being a superpower in the 2300 setting was a result of the simulation ran to determine the background.
Why retcon? Just because people don't like France being in power 300 years into the future in a fictional game background over some perceived slights in the real world of today?
Whatthehellever.
(My 2 euros).
Why retcon? Just because people don't like France being in power 300 years into the future in a fictional game background over some perceived slights in the real world of today?
Whatthehellever.
(My 2 euros).
I'd like to suggest that the company stick by its editorial and artistic guns on this one, as much for reasons of principle as for contractual issues already cited earlier in the thread.
If the licensor and the product writers are agreed on evolving the game-world situation away from a "Pax Franca"(?) scenario over the course of the product line's run, so be it. But respecting the established backstory of the game's "house universe" is a decision I can respect happily.
Besides, players and game-moderators will do their own thing with the rules systems anyway, and that, too, is as it should be.
If the licensor and the product writers are agreed on evolving the game-world situation away from a "Pax Franca"(?) scenario over the course of the product line's run, so be it. But respecting the established backstory of the game's "house universe" is a decision I can respect happily.
Besides, players and game-moderators will do their own thing with the rules systems anyway, and that, too, is as it should be.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
I'm going to go and bump a thread in the P-Pit to respod to the Van post.
Meng the influence of France is not so much possession of space territory but complete economic and political dominance. Their territories on Earth include much of Africa, the Caribbean, South America and the Pacific. It is a world spanning Empire that had intact space launching facilities in Guiana at the end of the Twilight War. They maintained neutrality aggressively throughout the war. NATO did not want to find an enemy to the rear of the Central European Front, nor did the Pact wish NATO to be reinforce by fresh French reserves.
Both Australia and New Zealand are recorded as being involved in the war but coming out as relatively unscathed. Australia has a major independant colonial effort in the American Arm and is one of America's strongest allies. The Kiwis are mentioned as providing personnel for the British effort. Neither country even comes close to an intact France in terms of available manpower, resources or industry.
Brazil is a good bet for a superpower candidate but India is quoted as being badly mauled in its nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
Me, I'd stick with the background as is.
Meng the influence of France is not so much possession of space territory but complete economic and political dominance. Their territories on Earth include much of Africa, the Caribbean, South America and the Pacific. It is a world spanning Empire that had intact space launching facilities in Guiana at the end of the Twilight War. They maintained neutrality aggressively throughout the war. NATO did not want to find an enemy to the rear of the Central European Front, nor did the Pact wish NATO to be reinforce by fresh French reserves.
Both Australia and New Zealand are recorded as being involved in the war but coming out as relatively unscathed. Australia has a major independant colonial effort in the American Arm and is one of America's strongest allies. The Kiwis are mentioned as providing personnel for the British effort. Neither country even comes close to an intact France in terms of available manpower, resources or industry.
Brazil is a good bet for a superpower candidate but India is quoted as being badly mauled in its nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
Me, I'd stick with the background as is.
"...but complete economic and political dominance. Their territories on Earth include much of Africa, the Caribbean, South America and the Pacific. It is a world spanning Empire that had intact space launching facilities in Guiana at the end of the Twilight War." Reiver.
I need to brush up on my future history.
Thanks for the clarification.
I need to brush up on my future history.
Thanks for the clarification.
Hi there, long time watcher, first time poster.
You have to keep France as the premier nation.
My first 2300 game was back in 1986, just a year after the French had blown up a Greenpeace ship in Auckland harbour. The idea that the French would be an arrogant, high handed and snooty bunch of so-and-so's required very little imagination from my fellow RPG-ers.
You have to keep France as the premier nation.
My first 2300 game was back in 1986, just a year after the French had blown up a Greenpeace ship in Auckland harbour. The idea that the French would be an arrogant, high handed and snooty bunch of so-and-so's required very little imagination from my fellow RPG-ers.
Out of curosity whatever happened to Oceania in the post Twilight world. I have the Earth/Cybertech sourcebook, but, as it has often been criticized for its 1970s Guidebook approach...I wonder if anyone has bothered to update it...in fact, I don't it even mentions NZ!
Hopefully, Colin part of your mandate was to fix gapping holes like that. Or LKW, get the manuscript back to the man to complete his work...
WARNING
the above written by a furious Aussie ex-pat and lover of NZ landscapes
Hopefully, Colin part of your mandate was to fix gapping holes like that. Or LKW, get the manuscript back to the man to complete his work...
WARNING
the above written by a furious Aussie ex-pat and lover of NZ landscapes
Yep. This is made quite clear. In fact, part of Queensland ended up merging with PNG.
Of course, that part of Queensland is in reality extremely sparsely populated (aside from Cairns), so it makes little or no sense that it would or could go its own way. Presumably it was effectively "Cairns as independent city-state" prior to the fusion with PNG.
I believe there is a mention somewhere of Japanese shipping being one of the sources of recovery in the aftermath of the Twilight war. Presumably Cairns was one of the ports they visited.
Dear Folks -
It was either a complete small magazine, or an article in a larger, regular club magazine. Didn'y buy it at the time (being a poor uni student), but I've often regretted it.
Yep. This is made quite clear. In fact, part of Queensland ended up merging with PNG.</font>[/QUOTE]Many years ago, an Oz wargaming association wrote up what happened to Australia. I remember seeing it when I was down at Sydcon, probaly in the late 1980's.
It was either a complete small magazine, or an article in a larger, regular club magazine. Didn'y buy it at the time (being a poor uni student), but I've often regretted it.
Chirac may respond to terrorism with nukes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011903311.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011903311.html
Commander Jameson
SOC-3
To the poster asking about Oceania, the 2300AD book implies Japan has a key role in the region:
Japanese investments
industrialized the Philippine Islands, constructed an orbital catapult in 2072, and brought
them into the Japanese economic community in 21 20. Japanese deep ocean mining operations
made the Marianas, Carolines, Marshall, and Gilbert Islands part of Japanese territory during
the 22nd century, and the Gilberts were specifically developed as a model scientific community
during the 23rd century.
(That cost me 1 of 10 copies from my ebook that I'm allowed for the next 10 days apparently!)
Japanese investments
industrialized the Philippine Islands, constructed an orbital catapult in 2072, and brought
them into the Japanese economic community in 21 20. Japanese deep ocean mining operations
made the Marianas, Carolines, Marshall, and Gilbert Islands part of Japanese territory during
the 22nd century, and the Gilberts were specifically developed as a model scientific community
during the 23rd century.
(That cost me 1 of 10 copies from my ebook that I'm allowed for the next 10 days apparently!)
Commander Jameson
SOC-3
Further to the whole discussion about France, it always struck me as weird that the game doesn't include Indochina in the French empire, which is where it was in the nineteenth century (as the period is clearly the dominant influence on the setting). Instead, the region is described as a Cantonese satellite.
A French presence in Indochina would prop up France's great-power status and give a nice excuse for a France-vs-Canton rivalry story.
Touching on a topic from another thread, France vs Canton tensions could even be the basis for a Manchuria-Canton reconciliation, given existing France vs Manchria tensions.
A French presence in Indochina would prop up France's great-power status and give a nice excuse for a France-vs-Canton rivalry story.
Touching on a topic from another thread, France vs Canton tensions could even be the basis for a Manchuria-Canton reconciliation, given existing France vs Manchria tensions.
Dien Bien Phu. And the rest of the SE Asian wars of 1950-1975. Indochina is not likely to rejoin the French empire.
Not without a lot more bloodshed than France is willing to expend. SE Asia has slightly less baggage with the Chinese. Curiously, from several reports the Vietnamese have few problems with Americans and I would expect an American or Australian alliance in preference to the Cantonese.
Not without a lot more bloodshed than France is willing to expend. SE Asia has slightly less baggage with the Chinese. Curiously, from several reports the Vietnamese have few problems with Americans and I would expect an American or Australian alliance in preference to the Cantonese.
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