CT Only: Combat - Movement, Attacking, Timing

[creativehum]

I'm heading back into Classic Traveller next weekend after not picking it up after a couple of decades. With hindsight I can see how all the pieces fit together in a compelling way -- in a way I couldn't in my youth.

[I'm sticking with Books 1-3 for now, though I have on tap Supplements 1-4 and the skills and weapons from Book 4. I want a simple, lean Classic Traveller. Please note: this post is a question about the Rules as Written. I'm not looking to fix them, drop the +DM modifiers or whatnot. I'm just trying to sort out something that I think makes sense in my head, and feel out successful experience of others in play.]

But my brain has bumped against something that I remember bumping up against in my youth. It flummoxed me then, and it flummoxed me now. These days I know the ruling I would make. But I've never seen this matter addressed anywhere, so I want to run it by team COTI.

I'm going to jump in with an example to illustrate the question:

Example One
An Adventurer rushes for Cover, Evading as he heads for the tires of an ATV. A Merc is Standing, firing at the Adventurer at Medium range. When the Adventurer reaches the ATV he'll return fire from cover.

Here's the question:

Does the Merc get his attack off while the Adventurer is covering ground? Or after he reaches the cover of the ATV wheel? I think the difference is clear: In one case he's getting a -2DM at medium range for Evading. Meanwhile, if we assume that all movement happens first, and then attacks occur, he is safely behind the wheel of the ATV before any gunfire occurs.

In the second case there's actually no need to Evade as he moves, since he makes it safely to the Cover no matter what. (Which seems strange to me.)


Example Two
An Adventurer armed with a Blade, hidden behind Cover, 20m from a Merc. The Merc is armed with a shotgun with his back to the wall in a cargo hold. The Adventurer declares he's going to charge from around the cover and attack the Merc.

Now, here's the thing:

If all movement happens _before_ attacks, then the Adventurer ends up with his blade at the Merc's neck before the Merc can attack. This means the Adventurer gets a +1DM on his attack for shot range, and the Merc gets a +1DM with his shotgun attack at short range.

However, when the Adventure closed on the Merc one band (Walking), he was passing through the the medium range in the Merc's arc of fire, which would have giving the Merc a +2DM to hit. Clearly, the is is the more advantageous DM. The question is, given that a character can be on another character from medium to short range in one round, does the Merc get to fire while the Adventurer is charging him. Or, if one reads the rules a certain way, does the Adventurer essentially "teleport" next to the Merc, and all combat occurs simultaneously after all movement occurs simultaneously.

This really was something that bumped my head when I was a teenager, because the rules do seem to suggest that a) all movement happens; b) all combat happens. And that characters essential teleport to the most advantageous position to attack at the end of their movement.

These days, reading the rules, I would make the following ruling (which I've tipped my hand to in how I phrased the above examples):

Declarations of movement are all simultaneous and declarations of combat are all simultaneous. And once we're in motion, it's all happening at the same time.

Each character gets to have the most advantageous combat DM as his target move through the scene.

So, in Example One, if the Adventurer is Evading to get to the ATV for cover, the Merc gets to fire at the Adventurer as he's running for the ATV, before he reaches the cover of the ATV. The -2DM of Evading at Medium range applies. The value of the -4DM of the ATV cover for the Adventurer really kicks in _next round_ if he gets there in one piece.

In Example Two, the Merc gets to fire at the Adventurer with his shotgun at medium range as the Adventurer Closes. The Adventurer still gets his attack, even if hit, because he will Close to short range. Even if he goes down from a Characteristic hitting 0, I'd call it he gets his attack in, per the rules of simultaneous combat. But he took that risk to get closer for next round.

Essentially, everything is declared simultaneously, and every movement and attack will go off. But we also look to the fiction to see if there are an subtle positioning for the order of attack in terms of DMs to apply.


Does that make sense to you all? Or am I breaking a specific game-play mechanic that's going to kill the fun/break the game if it isn't a) all movement first; b) and then all attacks at the ranges of finished movement.

How do you all handle the timing and spacial relationships of movement and combat?

I'm curious about this, because I honestly have not seen anyone bring this matter up. But it seems like one of those soft points in the explanations in the Classic Traveller rules.

 

[Fovean]

We always did this:

1 - All combatants move 1/2, declare evade, or stand. All actions use 1/2 move. Lowest DEX goes first.

2 - All combatants perform ranged attacks, suffering penalties if moving/evading, highest DEX goes first. Results are applied immediately. Any hand-to-hand combatants are considered to engaged in melees (no other actions possible).

3 - All combatants finish move, move 1/2 or continue to stand. Lowest DEX goes first.

4 - Resolve all melee combats, results applied immediately.

It wasn't as free-form as some liked but it was a way to codify the sequence so you could pick guys off and avoid the 'teleport' issue... It was inspired by Squad Leader, where you could throw down target markers when an enemy moved through one of your fire zones then resolve the fire later.

So for your example 1 I would rule the merc gets a shot off before the adventurer reaches cover at about halfway to the ATV. But the question for me would be how far away is the ATV from the adventurer? If it's only 10 or 12m I'd let them get to cover; if it's a range band or farther I'd let the merc take the shot.

For example 2, 20m is essentially one range band (25m per band) so if the adventurer is going to walk it, the merc would get his shot off (because I'd split his movement allowance in half to about 12m). However if the adventurer ran (50m allowance, 25m if split), splitting his move still puts him on top of the merc before the guy can fire. Maybe he fumbled his gun, or glanced away at just the right moment. But then I would say these two are engaged in melee so the merc gets a chance to defend himself and maybe even hurt the adventurer.

I'm referencing Starter Traveller btw. Hope that helps.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm referring to the Traveller Book to answer your questions since my LBBs are in a box and hard to reach.

Example One
An Adventurer rushes for Cover, Evading as he heads for the tires of an ATV. A Merc is Standing, firing at the Adventurer at Medium range. When the Adventurer reaches the ATV he'll return fire from cover.

Here's the question:

Does the Merc get his attack off while the Adventurer is covering ground? Or after he reaches the cover of the ATV wheel? I think the difference is clear: In one case he's getting a -2DM at medium range for Evading. Meanwhile, if we assume that all movement happens first, and then attacks occur, he is safely behind the wheel of the ATV before any gunfire occurs.

Personal Combat / The Combat Round:

- Combat is resolved in rounds, each representing approximately 15 seconds of real time. Within each round, each individual character, non-player character, and animal is allowed an opportunit to move and to attack.

- Generally, all individuals perform their movement first, followed by their attacks. (Page 34, TTB.)



I read this to mean that, as default, characters move first THEN make attacks. But, this is CT, and its flexible, so the Ref can rule that an attack is made first, or during movement, if it makes sense to him.





Then, refer to the Combat Procedure Chart shown in the Combat Tables.

1. The first thing that is considered is Surprise. Range is determined. Escape and Avoidance may be enacted before the encounter begins. But, your example already takes us into step 2, the combat round.

2. First, movement status for each character is considered. In your example, the Merc is standing and the Adventurer is moving (evading) towards the ATV tire.

After movement status is considered, attacks are made. Then morale is considered.

3. And, just before the next combat round begins, wounds are applied from the successful hits made in Step 2.





How to play out the example, by the book?

1. Merc attacks Adventurer. Adventurer is considered evading. If Merc hits, damage is not applied yet.

2. Regardless of hit success, Adventurer makes it to the ATV wheel and fires back at the Merc.

3. Damage is applied to both characters at this point. New combat round begins.





Further Explanation: Breaking it down.

During each combat round, each participant is allowed to move and act.

Typical actions are boiled down in the combat charts: Run. Walk. Close Range. Open Range. Stand. Evade. Shoot. Switch. Reload. Throw. Draw. Swing. Hit.

In effect, each round, a character is using one or two of those general actions each round. If using two, it must be a movement action combined with an attack action. Once the choice is made, list the movement action first.

The Merc in your example is using: Stand and Shoot.

The Adventurer in your example is using: Evade and Shoot.

Because standing takes no time, the Merc shoots while the Adventurer is performing the first half of his combat round actions--the Merc Shoots while the Adventurer Evades.

Then, the Adventurer makes it to his destination and returns fire with his Shoot action.

In the second case there's actually no need to Evade as he moves, since he makes it safely to the Cover no matter what. (Which seems strange to me.)

Yes. The Adventurer makes it to cover, even if the Adventurer is killed by the Merc's shot, because damage is not applied until the end of the round.

This is because CT uses a simultaneous combat round instead of an instantaneous one. The idea is that, in CT, everything is happening at the same time. So, characters are allowed to complete their actions for the round even if the character is attacked and killed before he can even move.



Variant Rule

Some CT Refs balk at this and tend to use an instantaneous combat round. When I play CT, I usually change the rules towards this flavor.

With instantaneous combat, damage is applied when the hit is made. So, the Adventurer may not make it to the ATV tire--depending on the outcome of the Merc's shot.

For ease of play, I allow a character to complete half of his movement (as it takes some time to raise the weapon, aim, and fire).

Thus, here's how the first example would be played using this variant rule:

Merc: Stand and Shoot.
Adventurer: Evade and Shoot.

1. Adventurer moves half the way to the ATV tire.

2. Merc shoots. If he hits, damage is applied immediately, and the Adventurer may not complete his actions.

3. If the Merc's shot misses or does minimal damage, then the Adventurer makes it to the ATV tire, then fires back. Damage is applied to the Merc if the Adventurer's shot is successful.

 

[Supplement Four]

Example Two
An Adventurer armed with a Blade, hidden behind Cover, 20m from a Merc. The Merc is armed with a shotgun with his back to the wall in a cargo hold. The Adventurer declares he's going to charge from around the cover and attack the Merc.

Now, here's the thing:

If all movement happens _before_ attacks, then the Adventurer ends up with his blade at the Merc's neck before the Merc can attack. This means the Adventurer gets a +1DM on his attack for shot range, and the Merc gets a +1DM with his shotgun attack at short range.

Let's break this down into CT basic terms. What are the two actions each character is making?

Adventurer: Close Range and Swing.

Merc: Draw and Shoot.


1. Adventurer is moving, closing range while the Merc is drawing his shotgun.

2. Adventurer attacks at Short range with the blade. Merc fires shotgun at Adventurer at Short Range.

3. Damage is applied to either character if either attack is successful.





Special Note

This second example may be a good candidate for the Special Considerations rule "Draw". What I wrote above is the basic CT combat round without using the Special Considerations rules.

SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS / DRAWING: This rule basically says two things. If you have to draw your weapon before you use it, then apply a -3 DM to the attack. The Merc would use this penalty when he fires the shotgun in step 2 above.

The rule also covers surprise situations. In your example, the Adventurer is hidden. The Merc doesn't know that he is there. So, there's a chance that the Adventurer can leap out of hiding and stab the guy while the Merc is fumbling, trying to get his shotgun off his shoulder.

Surprise: Both characters roll 2D + DEX. If the Merc wins this toss, he is on his toes and aware of the Adventurer as soon as his enemy is revealed. The Merc will pull his weapon and blast the Adventurer as soon as he moves out of concealment. This is considered a Surprise round.

1. Adventurer moves out of concealment. Merc draws weapon, fires (target distance 20 meters), and if successful, damage is applied to the Adventurer.



If the Adventurer wins the toss, then the reverse happens. The Adventurer makes it out of the concealment and is upon the Merc so fast that the Merc hasn't even pulled his shotgun yet.

1. Adventurer moves out of concealment, races to the Merc, and attacks at Close Range. Damage is applied to the Merc if the strike is successful. Next round, the two begin at Close Range (touching), and combat is played out normally (if the Merc is not incapacitated).





A Note on Blade Weapons and Range

Note that the default range for blade (melee) weapons and fist-fighting is Short. People are moving around, dodging, then edging in for a blow.

Close range is physical contact, and this should be reserved for grappling, wrestling, and the like. The way I differentiate between the two is that I consider if the target is aware of the attack. If you sneak up on a guard with a blade, then you attack at Close Range. But, if he knows that you're coming at him, I default to Short Range.

Essentially, everything is declared simultaneously, and every movement and attack will go off.

There is not initiative system in CT. And, since a character can complete his actions, regardless of attacks, it doesn't really matter who declares first.

The Ref should get an idea of what the players want to do, and he should think about the actions of the NPCs. Then, he should just play out the encounter logically.

If you've got a Merc that is standing and firing, and and Adventurer that is running for an ATV tire before he fires back, then certainly, the order of resolution is:

1. Merc shoots and running Adventurer.

2. Adventurer gets to the ATV tire and fires back at Merc.

3. Damage is applied to either, if necessary.





The second example you have can be played two different ways, by the rules, depending on if you use the Special Consideration Draw rule.

Playing it normally, you've got the Adventurer, hidden, exposing himself and running at the Merc.

The Merc, seeing the crazy many run at him, struggles to pull his shotgun and fire before the Adventurer is on him.

1. Adventurer Closes Range (to Short Range) to approach the Merc and swings his attack.

2. The Merc fires his shotgun (-3 DM for the Draw), at Short Range against the Adventurer.

3. Damage is applied to either, if necessary.





The Draw rule gives the Ref a second choice in playing out this second encounter. If the Ref thinks that there is a chance that the Merc can be so quick with his weapon that he can pull it and blow the Adventurer away before his attacker crosses that 20 feet, then use the Draw rule.

The winner of the Draw will be granted a Surprise round to perform the attack. This means, if the Adventurer wins, that he can come out of hiding, move the 20 feet to the guard, and attack him (and do damage) before the guard has any time to move at all.

Or, if the Merc wins, then the Merc can shoot the attacking Adventurer before he crosses the 20 feet.



In this situation, I would probably allow the Draw rule. Or, I'd give the player the option (because it can be bad for the Adventurer if the Merc wins the toss because the Adventurer has a low DEX).

If the distance between the Merc and the concealment spot were further, I would not use the Draw rule because there would be time for both characters to act.

 

[Supplement Four]

- Typical Actions -

The easiest way to govern CT combat is to use the Typical Actions Table. Whatever a player says he wants his characters to do, the Ref should think of the PC actions in terms of the chart.



Typical Actions

Run.
Walk.
Close Range.
Open Range.
Stand.
Evade.
Shoot.
Switch.
Reload.
Throw.
Draw.
Swing.
Hit.




When the player says, "I'll run to the ATV tire for cover, evading along the way, then return fire when I get there," the Ref should hear this--

PC: Evade and Shoot.

The Ref picks two actions from the Typical Actions table to describe the PC's actions in a type of Traveller shorthand.

Thinking to himself, the Ref decides that the bad guy Mercenary will just stand there and start popping rounds at the running PC, the Ref does the same thing. He picks two actions from the Typical Actions Table and applies them to the NPC.

Merc: Stand and Shoot.




From that point, the combat round is played out logically.

1. Adventurer makes for the ATV tire, evading.

2. Merc does not move, but instead shoots at Adventurer.

3. Adventurer makes it to the ATV tire and fires back at the Merc.

4. Damage is considered for any hits on any of the characters.

 

[McPerth]

Personally, I've always used a variant of AHL rules for combat. Theree, if the Merc was aware of Advenurer, he's likely to declare covering fire, so being able to fire at Adventurer as he begins to move into his covered arc. If Merc had not declared it, he still could shoot snap fire when Adventurer began to move (at worst DM, though).

Also, using 3 second segments, Adventurer is unlikely to move those 20 meter under fire uninjuried...

 

[Supplement Four]

Personally, I've always used a variant of AHL rules for combat. Theree, if the Merc was aware of Advenurer, he's likely to declare covering fire, so being able to fire at Adventurer as he begins to move into his covered arc. If Merc had not declared it, he still could shoot snap fire when Adventurer began to move (at worst DM, though).

Also, using 3 second segments, Adventurer is unlikely to move those 20 meter under fire uninjuried...

OP is interested in CT rules as written, not variants (though I couldn't resist listing a variant choice in my answer above, either).

 

[creativehum]

Thanks for the replies!

You guys also got to what was going to be my Part II of the question:

"If combat flows according to the logic of the fiction at hand (as opposed to the "All movement and then all combat" staccato that seems to be the rules as written) and a character gets popped rushing for cover, does he complete the movement (which seems to be the Rules as Written) or fall as he's going."

I had assumed everything Supplement Four laid out. But am glad to have the feedback. It's a terrific summation, and I hope it serves others well.

Like most of the games from the time of CT, the Referee and the Players have to negotiate the "basic components" of the rules at hand with the fictional elements, making rulings that "make sense" in moment-by-moment play. What comes into play, what modifier to apply, when an extra roll might be required ("If you roll DEX or less he won't have time to get a shot off at you at all"), all combine to make the fictional events build and meet with the gears of the game system.

 

[Supplement Four]

RE: The Draw


I think that the Draw rule can be read a couple of ways. Some will argue that it cannot be used as I have suggested above with your Adventurer attacking from concealment. Some Refs consider the Draw rule to only apply to literal drawing situations--only when a character is pulling a weapon.

What I've done above is interpolate the meaning of the rule and apply it to the situation. Interpolation is another time-honored CT operation. But, I tend to believe that the Draw rule is really just meant for actual, literal, draws. Refs that go with this more stern definition of the rule would not apply it above as I have.

What this all comes down to is the Ref. His decision about what is correct in his game.

 

[Supplement Four]

RE: Popping Out of Concealment


Example Two above poses some problems because of its custom nature. There are questions that the Ref will answer for himself as the situation arises in a game. Does the Merc have any reason to believe that intruders are around?

This is a custom situation where the Ref may want to start the encounter with a Surprise attempt. By the rules, Surprise is considered first on the Combat Procedure Table.



How do we consider Surprise, by the rules? It's a simple toss of a D6 for each side. In the second example in the OP, the Merc would throw a die, and the concealed Adventurer would throw a die. If either throw is 3 more than the other, then the indicated character has Surprise.

Note: This gives the Adventurer a chance to be Surprised by the Merc, too.

"OK, I bust out of the closet and starting running, as fast as I can for the Merc."

"Well, that's what you want to do. But, as soon as you open the doors, you see the Merc, standing now right in front of you, with his shotgun pointed right at you. 'Gotcha', he says."

The Ref may want to add a situational modifier to the Surprise DMs chart to account for the Adventurer being hidden in the closet, given the game events leading up to this point.

If no Surprise is achieved, then the encounter is played out as I initially describe above.





EDIT: So, amending what I say above about Example 2, the by-the-book play is to consider Surprise with the Adventurer in the closet, and then play out the round, depending on if either side achieved Surprise. I wouldn't roll for Surprise until the PC made his move.

1. PC makes his move, exposing himself from concealment, 20 feet away from the Merc.

2. Surprise is checked, using all appropriate modifiers.

3. If no Surprise round, then play out as I describe above. But, if a Surprise round is achieved, then play out the Surprise round before moving into normal combat rounds.

 

[Tobias]

Does the Merc get his attack off while the Adventurer is covering ground? Or after he reaches the cover of the ATV wheel? I think the difference is clear: In one case he's getting a -2DM at medium range for Evading.

In various RPGs, I've tried two basic ways of going about this:

a) An interrupt system. In this case, movement would be an action and the NPC merc could roll to interrupt it.

b) A PC-centric, resolution-based system. This is a little more removed from how Traveller handles things. In such a case, the referee would describe the situation ("A Merc with a shotgun is covering the approach"), the player would describe what he attempts to do, and then the player (and only the player) would roll an appropriate task. In this case the player wants his character to get into cover behind the ATV tires. He'd have to roll a task to avoid being shot by the Mercenary while doing this, with DMs decided by the referee according to the situation.