Combat Questions...

[Spinward Scout]

Hey Everybody!

Tried to run a battle tonite and came up with some interesting questions for Battle Dress in T20.

Ok, here's the deal: one Imperial Marine in Battle Dress against one Collosal Monstrous Spider from d20 Modern. Changed the Spider's stats to include Lifeblood using the Constitution score(with Stamina in the place of Hit Points), and gave the monster an AR of 5 (for having +15 natural armor). The Spider's attack is +36 which means he hits the Marine every time - can't miss unless he gets a 1. Damage from the Spider's attack is 4d6+12. Battle Dress has an AR of 10, SI of 25, and an AC of 24.

So, the problem is:

1) Can the Spider ever actually do damage to the Battle Dress?

2) Is Battle Dress considered a Vehicle for combat purposes?

3) If so, that makes Battle Dress equivalent to AR 15 when the Spider attacks it (-5 dice if attacked by a lifeform and a normal AR of 10), doesn't it?

4) If a large animal attacks someone in Battle Dress, how is damage applied?
To Structural Integity?
To Stamina?
To Lifeblood?

5) If a large animal attacks someone in a Vehicle, when can the animal actually hurt someone that's inside?

6) And what if a large animal attacks a starship?

The most I can figure is 3 points damage to SI until the Armor's Integrity is gone. Unless there's a crit - then I'm lost on what to do. Sorry if I'm asking a repetative question that someone else may have answered already. Is there a combat cheat sheet somewhere?

Thanks for any help,

Scout

 

[mike wightman]

Hello Scout,
here are my answers to your questions:

Originally posted by Sir Dameon Toth:
Changed the Spider's stats to include Lifeblood using the Constitution score(with Stamina in the place of Hit Points), and gave the monster an AR of 5 (for having +15 natural armor). The Spider's attack is +36 which means he hits the Marine every time - can't miss unless he gets a 1. Damage from the Spider's attack is 4d6+12. Battle Dress has an AR of 10, SI of 25, and an AC of 24.

So, the problem is:

1) Can the Spider ever actually do damage to the Battle Dress?

Every time the spider hits it should do 1d6 vs the SI of the Battle Dress

2) Is Battle Dress considered a Vehicle for combat purposes?

It's a vehicle IMHO; it's designed as a vehicle and its stats are in the Standard Vehicle Design Section, therefore it should be treated ar a vehicl in combat.

3) If so, that makes Battle Dress equivalent to AR 15 when the Spider attacks it (-5 dice if attacked by a lifeform and a normal AR of 10), doesn't it?

Yes

4) If a large animal attacks someone in Battle Dress, how is damage applied?
To Structural Integity?
To Stamina?
To Lifeblood?

To SI of the suit.

5) If a large animal attacks someone in a Vehicle, when can the animal actually hurt someone that's inside?

Only on a critical hit, or when the vehicle has been shredded

at twice its SI.

6) And what if a large animal attacks a starship?

Electrify the hull

The most I can figure is 3 points damage to SI until the Armor's Integrity is gone. Unless there's a crit - then I'm lost on what to do. Sorry if I'm asking a repetative question that someone else may have answered already. Is there a combat cheat sheet somewhere?

Thanks for any help,

Scout

If its a crit then apply 1d6+10 damage to SI and roll on the Vehicle Internal Hit Location table.

Hope this helps.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Stands to reason that a really, really, big animal (Colossal is BIG) could pound the crap out of anything if properly motivated to! That's the last time I wear the "Fly Shaped" Battledress!

 

[Spinward Scout]

Ok, let me see if I got this right: the Spider gets a hit and rolls a 6, 3, 2, and 1. You take away the three lowest rolls and that leaves a -12 for armor reduction. You add the 6 to the +12 (?) of the Spider's damage? And then subtract 12 for the rest of the Armor damage reduction? That would be 6 points to the Battle Dress's SI? And the Spider can't hurt the guy inside until he's done 25 points of SI damage or gets a threat/crit?

Something about that doesn't make sense.

I would think that the bigger that one thing is compared to another thing would give a bonus to making a threat/crit. I mean when you are looking at a creature's foot, and it's just as big as the vehicle, the foot is going to do a lot of damage.

I think I'm going to make a house rule on that one: The larger creature would get a threat modifier equal to the difference in size of the smaller creature. The (Colossal) Spider is 3 size ranges different than the (Large) Battle Dress armor. The Spider's threat range would now be (20 - 3 = 17) 17-20 to threat and possible critical on the Battle Dress.

Now how to handle the opposite situation? The Battle Dress is attacking the Spider. Ok, a non-natural weapon uses it's normal threat range. But what do you do when smaller creature hits the larger of the two. Well, I just can't see a mosquito getting a threat/crit on a dog. So, that natural weapon gets a plus to the threat range instead of a minus. Spider is 3 size ranges larger than the Battle Dress. Threat range for the Battle Dress using it's natural weapon (i.e. an armored fist) would be 23, which isn't possible on a d20. That makes a lot more sense.

The natural 20 is still ALWAYS a hit, just not a threat in this situation. This would only apply to natural weapons. A Fusion Gun in the hands of an Imperial Marine in Battle Dress would still have it's normal threat range.

How does that sound?

Scout

 

[mike wightman]

How about treating creatures over a certain size as "vehicles" and even bigger ones (Arakkisian Sandworms and the like ) as starships for dice additions/reductions?

 

[far-trader]

I was thinking the same (or similar) thing as Sigg.

In My Traveller Universe, rather than a vague personal/vehicle/craft* scaling based on how the thing was built I'm looking at using the size.

* I call it craft rather than starship since it doesn't need a jump drive, just a certain size.

In my TU:

Anything less than 2,000vl (less than 1dT, Large size and smaller) is "personal scale" for purposes of damage dice and such.

Something between 2,000vl and 15,000vl (between 1dT and 10dT, Huge size) is "vehicle scale" for purposes of damage dice and such.

And anything over 15,000vl (over 10dT, Gargantuan size and bigger) counts as "craft scale" for purposes of damage dice and such.

So in your combat example its the dude in the BD who's in trouble in my system. He's looking at this honking Collosal* spider that's as big as small starship (treat the spider as "craft scale") while he's only a little bigger than he would be in his birthday suit (treat the dude as "personal scale").

* Is it really that big? I don't have d20 Modern but that's BIG!

In my TU my money's on the Marine being smart and beating a hasty retreat before he becomes spider kibble, and the spider is unlikely to even notice the Marine unless he attacks the thing and actually does some damage. It's about like a mosquito to us, an annoying buzzing but if it bites its slap splat city for the mosquito.

I do like your idea of scaling critical threats by relative size too. Kind of like the +5 bonus for Spinal Weapons. It bears some further thought on my part...

 

[Spinward Scout]

I really don't like this adding dice/getting rid of dice if it's a vehicle or starship. It SHOULD be done by size of the craft/creature. A Colossal creature is going to make mincemeat out of a small 10 ton starfighter. It's like the T-Rex in Jurrasic Park tearing apart the Jeep. But, according to the rules, the T-Rex has to subtract 5 dice from it's roll for attacking the vehicle. And that just doesn't sound right.

I'll work on it some more...

Scout

 

[far-trader]

I quite agree Scout and that's why I'm trying it a little differently as outlined above.

There was also a similar discussion a while back (I believe around the whole "is BD a vehicle" question) and someone posted an expanded system of dice adjustment based on more than the three simple size scales I'm using.

I think this is the thread.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Thanks, Far-Trader. Looks like they had the same problems I did. Battle Dress is powered Combat Armor, correct? And combat armor is... armor, plain and simple. I can see keeping structural integrity, and I had a bit of a discussion about this with one of the guys I play D&D with. Armor never degrades in battle in d20 games. You get hit, it goes through the armor, and then like magic, your armor is back to normal. Unless I've missed a rule somewhere. So I could see keeping SI and treating it as extra Stamina, I like the AR reduction part, but the vehicle and starship upping or lowering of the dice has to go, I think. I'm going to look through Star Wars and Spycraft tonite and see if I can find a nice fix for this.

Thanks!

Scout

 

[mike wightman]

Have a look at the new armour and damage rules in the new Unearthed Arcana D&D book sometime, there may be something in there that's useful (I've only flicked though it in the shop so I can't be certain yet).

 

[Spinward Scout]

Just bought that the other day. I do like the Defense roll I saw. I'll flip through it tonite in my search.

Scout