Commercial ship crewing

[McPerth]

Automated Positions

The ship’s computer can cover several positions if it is running the
appropriate software:

• Fire Control programs can either act gunners or aid existing gunners.
• A ship equipped with repair drones and Auto-Repair software acts as damage control.
• A ship running an Intellect program and Expert Pilot can be the pilot.
• A ship equipped with repair drones and running an Intellect program and Expert Engineer (M-drive or J-drive) can be a drive
engineer.

While this is true, to run all of this in a free trader you'd need more computer capacity (according to CB):

• To run intellect/2 (mínimum to run 2 expert programs, Pilot and Navigator): 2 rating points
• To run expert pilot/2 (minimum to act as pilot 1): 2 rating points
• To run expert navigator/2: 2 rating points
• To run auto repair/1 (minimal for the repair drones to operate): 10 rating points
• To run fire control/2 (minimum to fire both turrets at skill level 0): 10 rating points
• To run jump/1: 5 rating points (but not expected to be run simultaneously with fire control)

So if you want to automatize all said positions, you need about 26 rating points, for a minimum of computer 6, adding about MCr 30 to the ship's cost (and so about KCr 125 a month in morgage)...

 

[HG_B]

While this is true, to run all of this in a free trader you'd need more computer capacity (according to CB):

Or, you put them into bots like the engineers & stewards, autodoc, etc. You can do either in MgT. The bot route is cheaper so I wouldn't go for the more expensive route.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Just to reference in the Core Rulebook what everyone is talking about.

Expert program rules on pages 92 & 93.

Robots on pages 94 & 95.

 

[rancke]

It's ALL in the CRB.

Where? I can't find it.

No. It is covered in the section on robots.

Is that the section on p. 94-96? Because that does not appear to mention robots in crew positions at all.

It is also explicitly stated that you can use them for those crew positions.

Would it kill you to provide page numbers?

As far as designs go, they were just ported design spec per design spec from older editions. They didn't even bother to use optimum cost rules for the ships. Basically, the designs as listed are bizarre when compared to the design rules.

Yep, they conform to the old setting rather than to the new rules.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

Where? I can't find it.


Hans

Keep reading. I stepped away from my books.

 

[McPerth]

Or, you put them into bots like the engineers & stewards, autodoc, etc. You can do either in MgT. The bot route is cheaper so I wouldn't go for the more expensive route.

By the same rule, you could just put a robot brain to act as gunner (just a desk computer with rating 2/specialized would give you Intellect/1 and expert gunner/2 (or even run those programs in your main computer, for a total cost of 3 rating points), instead of needing to upgrade your computer to run a fire control software.

While this could be perfectly legal according the rules, I see it as cheating the system. Perhaps I'm too traditional...

 

[HG_B]

By the same rule, you could just put a robot brain to act as gunner (just a desk computer with rating 2/specialized would give you Intellect/1 and expert gunner/2 (or even run those programs in your main computer, for a total cost of 3 rating points), instead of needing to upgrade your computer to run a fire control software.

While this could be perfectly legal according the rules, I see it as cheating the system. Perhaps I'm too traditional...

N.B. cost of Intellect pgm. for a ship mainframe.
A ship system requires either it run via the ship computer or a bot. There is no provision for wiring in a stand alone desk top into the ship's computer separate from a bot. I think doing so would be "cheating".

 

[McPerth]

[m;]Please, keep politeness in your posts. It would be a shame having to close so interesting a thread[/m;]

 

[rancke]

Keep reading. I stepped away from my books.

No hurry. Whenever you step back to your books will do.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

N.B. cost of Intellect pgm. for a ship mainframe.
A ship system requires either it run via the ship computer or a bot. There is no provision for wiring in a stand alone desk top into the ship's computer separate from a bot. I think doing so would b "cheating".

If so, why the fire control program, when you can achieve better results with expert gunner program at less rating and monetary cost?

 

[HG_B]

I need to look at Aramis' spreadsheets on optimum trader profit. See what this changes.

 

[HG_B]

If so, why the fire control program, when you can achieve better results with expert gunner program at less rating and monetary cost?

Not sure I'm following due to the nomenclature. Do you mean why a pgm loaded into the mainframe as opposed (vs.) a 'bot gunner running gunnery pgm locally (in it's brain)? My guess is that it is another option. Same reason they designed ships in the CRB that are more expensive than the design rules demand for no additional value.

 

[McPerth]

Not sure I'm following due to the nomenclature. Do you mean why a pgm loaded into the mainframe as opposed (vs.) a 'bot gunner running gunnery pgm locally (in it's brain)? My guess is that it is another option. Same reason they designed ships in the CRB that are more expensive than the design rules demand for no additional value.

I mean that if you can have at any turret a simple computer 2 (gunner specialized) for Cr 575 (less if your TL is over 12) with intellect/1 and Expert 3 gunner software for Cr 12000 (CB pages 91-92) at each turret, no one will buy main frame fire control programs at MCr 2 per rate and probably needing to upgrade your main frame computer (aside from being maximum 4, so only capable to control up to 4 turrets at level 0) .

 

[HG_B]

I mean that if you can have at any turret a simple computer 2 (gunner specialized) for Cr 575 (less if your TL is over 12) with intellect/1 and Expert 3 gunner software for Cr 12000 (CB pages 91-92) at each turret, no one will buy main frame fire control programs at MCr 2 per rate and probably needing to upgrade your main frame computer (aside from being maximum 4, so only capable to control up to 4 turrets at level 0) .

There is no rule provision where it says that you can wire a PC INTO the ship's mainframe. The two explicitly stated ways to do this are: Run Intellect ON the ship's computer with other programs also running on the ship's computer or, one can use a robot running the appropriate software who would then manipulate controls like people do.

One could conceivably house rule that it can be done.

 

[McPerth]

There is no rule provision where it says that you can wire a PC INTO the ship's mainframe. The two explicitly stated ways to do this are: Run Intellect ON the ship's computer with other programs also running on the ship's computer or, one can use a robot running the appropriate software who would then manipulate controls like people do.

One could conceivably house rule that it can be done.

As said, probably I'm too traditional, but I still see it as cheating the system (while, as I also said, this would be prefectly legal with RAW, no need to house rule it, as I understand rules).

But then there's no sense to having fire control software for your mainframe (and the selling firm would probably have been bankrupcied), so I guess the personal computers and the main frame ones are too different to run together (aside from seing libraries or running games from the main frame in your PC), and that the main frame programs are needed to run ship's systems (e.g. because they have to coordinate several ship's systems, as in this case sensors and weapons).

 

[HG_B]

I just looked up crewing. It states that Independent ships crew with 2 organic crew members) the One pilot, one engineer and one ("synthetic") Astrogation program.

 

[HG_B]

As said, probably I'm too traditional, but I still see it as cheating the system (while, as I also said, this would be prefectly legal with RAW, no need to house rule it, as I understand rules).

Like I said, there is no listed method for wiring in a PC to the main frame in order to operate controls. IMO that would have to be an explicit rule. YMMV

Regardless, going by the intended crew rules, it is different than other Trav editions.

 

[rancke]

While it is true that a PC with incompatible hardware and software would be difficult, perhaps impossible, to hook up to a gun turret, that begs the question: What prevents a company from manufacturing a PC-sized electronic gizmo with the correct soft- and hardware?

And saying that the rules don't allow it also begs the question: WHY does the rules not allow it?


Hans

 

[rancke]

I just looked up crewing. It states that Independent ships crew with 2 organic crew members) the One pilot, one engineer and one ("synthetic") Astrogation program.

"Independent traders and scouts tend to run with as small a crew as possible. Corporate vessels have an average-sized crew, while military ships are usually fully crewed to maximize their effectiveness in battle." [CRB:113] (Emphasis mine).​

Hans

 

[HG_B]

If you couple to non-organic crewing with the updated design rules in HG. You can REALLY lower the purchase price and TCO of small merchant ships. This is a good idea if you want your players to have to do less trading and more adventuring. It also allows you to remake the Scout Courier into a less expensive or, a better ship by having it built at TL 15. Since the RAW allows maintenance of a ship at a ship yard not of the TL it was built at there is no downside really.