Convert a CT Grognard--I Dare You!

[Sifu Blackirish]

Yeah, I'm old school. I'm so old, my SSN is 4...

Every now and then I see someone post MGT ship stats. I probably have the same reaction as an ESL student--it looks so familiar but what the hell am I reading?

Okay, here's the question...is it worth the investment for me to buy the MGT starship volume? Those extra bits I see sure look look crunchy...

 

[aramis]

It requires the core rules, too. At the moment, all the ship rules are in core and HG.

 

[beowulf2044]

All I can say to you, BlackIrish sir, is that I too have been around since the stars were a-bornin'. I have bought each and every Traveller incarnation and have been uniformly dismayed and dissappointed by every single one to varying degrees.

Except for Mongoose Traveller. I like it. It's the clean, workable systems that was the promise that MegaTraveller failed to deliver. It is, in my opinion, the best reincarnation of Traveller I've seen yet.

 

[Poppyseed45]

I ditto the above statement of Beo - I've been playing Traveller since I was a wee lad (1987 was my first exposure, age 12!) and have bought CT, TNE and T4 since then, played them all, and had great fun (and the inevitable problems too, especially with T4!).

And other than CT I'd gotten rid of the other two. And recently got a flood of Mongoose Traveller based on the recommendations here. Frankly, it's the Traveller I've been waiting for. 12 main careers, each with 3 sub-categories covering the majority of what you need for Traveller (one of things that bugged me with CT was that you only had those military careers - TNE fixed that, sorta).

The events during chargen are just awesome fodder for the imagination. The task system in unified and makes sense. To me, characters aren't overpowered at all, and yet can specialize just a little depending on the table you choose to roll on (say, one skill at 3 or 4). I like the contacts, allies and enemies thing. Group generation looks cool - you essentially can guarantee that the group has the skills it needs thanks to the connections rules and the "group skill package." Overall, it takes care of all my personal gripes with CT and TNE (I won't mention T4).

I also like the slightly tweaked world generation system. I'm working with it now to roll up my first subsector and the additional rules for planet culture and factions on the world really add flavor to the whole thing.

So yeah, I'm happy. There were/are production issues (I've only seen it in High Guard myself, and that was the table of contents only - everything else was kosher). I've also got Mercenary and 760 Patrons, both of which are gold mines for a game (especially the last one - simply brilliant).

So that's my take, and why you might come over to the Dark Side...

 

[Supplement Four]

It is, in my opinion, the best reincarnation of Traveller I've seen yet.

My opinion: Mongoose Traveller is a poor second to Classic Traveller.

But...

If you take CT out of the equation. If CT were no longer available. If I couldn't get/have/own all the cool CT stuff that I do....

I would play Mongoose Traveller. I think its a better game than MT/TNE/T4/GT/T20/THero.

 

[fiat_knox]

MGT is trying to stay faithful to the spirit of CT. All the adventures in the LBBs assumed that the characters (like the players) knew nothing about the universe, and gradually learned what they players did through the Traveller News Service and TAS bulletins. The MegaTraveller and TNE eras presumed an already deep familiarity with not only the game engine, but also the setting of the Third Imperium, right from the start.

Starting MegaTraveller off as broken didn't help. MT tied readers in too deeply with the universe of the Third Imperium. The metaplot destroyed a setting that many new readers had not been exposed to enough to make any sense of it all: and diehards like me were reduced to tears at the sight of the beloved old Third Imperium lying broken and dying, when all I asked for with MT was a clarification of the inconsistencies in the CT rules.

And TNE was too unfamiliar to me. Whole worlds whose UWPs I'd known for so long now had to be rewritten. Vampire ships. Virus. Over my head.

But here, in MGT, they're trying to bring back that early CT spirit. But it differs from the original LBBs in that they are trying to create a quality and a variety to the game without breaking it or bogging the game down with too many rules all at once. The emphasis is still on character, with the Patrons and Encounter tables given much greater variety (and making 760 Patrons one of the most useful quick story hook generators I have ever seen).

And rather than tying the game directly into the Third Imperium setting, they've given MGT enough openness to allow it to be used for other SF game settings, such as Babylon 5, Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog (and presumably Rogue Trooper, in time).

You can also come up with your own version of the TU, basing it on the universes of, say, Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth, the Dorsai stories, Farscape or Larry Niven's Known Space / RIngworld stories. MGT is sufficiently open to permit tweaking of the setting rules to accommodate the unique technologies and flavour of each setting, while preserving the very things that made Traveller special.

I've been a CT grognard since late 1981. And I was sold on MGT from the moment I saw the book on the shelf of my FLGS. Apparently, Manchester's got a huge contingent of Traveller grognards, and whereas up until the launch of MGT they all used the GURPS Traveller (where the Third Imperium never died), they all switched to MGT virtually overnight. Such is this book's power, flaws and all.

Oh. And if you're still unconvinced ... if you fail the survival roll at MGT chargen, it doesn't kill your character. But if you prefer, they kept the Iron Man chargen option. Just to show the young whippersnappers how real men used to play Traveller - for keeps.

 

[aramis]

Oh. And if you're still unconvinced ... if you fail the survival roll at MGT chargen, it doesn't kill your character. But if you prefer, they kept the Iron Man chargen option. Just to show the young whippersnappers how real men used to play Traveller - for keeps.

Only CT killed your character as the default option in the rules.

MT, TNE, T4: all allowed death, but the default was short term and out.

 

[Kilgs]

Oh. And if you're still unconvinced ... if you fail the survival roll at MGT chargen, it doesn't kill your character. But if you prefer, they kept the Iron Man chargen option. Just to show the young whippersnappers how real men used to play Traveller - for keeps.

Yeah, consider that one stolen for a siggie.

 

[Supplement Four]

And rather than tying the game directly into the Third Imperium setting, they've given MGT enough openness to allow it to be used for other SF game settings, such as Babylon 5, Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog (and presumably Rogue Trooper, in time).

You can also come up with your own version of the TU, basing it on the universes of, say, Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth, the Dorsai stories, Farscape or Larry Niven's Known Space / RIngworld stories. MGT is sufficiently open to permit tweaking of the setting rules to accommodate the unique technologies and flavour of each setting, while preserving the very things that made Traveller special.

CT was originally used as a generic scifi set of rules for any setting, and even as the Third Imperium grew up around the rules, the actual rules never changed substantially.

Therefore, CT remains extremely flexible for use with non-3I settings.

Your argument seems to imply that MGT is better at this than CT.

I beg to differ.

 

[Allensh]

CT was originally used as a generic scifi set of rules for any setting, and even as the Third Imperium grew up around the rules, the actual rules never changed substantially.

Therefore, CT remains extremely flexible for use with non-3I settings.

Your argument seems to imply that MGT is better at this than CT.

I beg to differ.

In order for CT to have been truly generic, it would have had to include rules for drives other than jump drives and a wider array of SF technology than it had. It didn't have these, of course, because the concept of a "generic" system really hadn't been thought of in 1977 and because the early RPG designers sort of figured people would make that stuff up if they wanted it But CT wasn't tied to an official setting, as you said.

MGT has given some nods to alternate technologies and different types of FTL drives, for example. In that way it is trying to be somewhat more generic than CT was. I would not go so far as to say it is "better" than CT. It comes from a different era.

Allen

 

[MongooseMatt]

I would not go so far as to say it is "better" than CT. It comes from a different era.

Hear, hear.

Without CT, the current Traveller simply would not exist.

Where I think the current Traveller does (or, rather, will) score, is that it will directly support other settings. If you want to play Judge Dredd, for example, you will be able to pick up the book and do it immediatly. Same with Hammers Slammers, and all the others that will follow.

Add to that, you will get non-Traveller players into Judge Dredd (say) - where they suddenly become Traveller players, and perhaps open to more traditional (or not!) Traveller gaming.

Nobody's rubbishing CT. But the current version of Traveller is the one being actively supported and expanded, and I think that might be the difference that people are trying to make.

 

[spinwardpirate]

I've been playing CT since before dice were invented, and I have to say I like MGT just as much, if not better. I guess it is similar to the blonds or brunettes dilemma. They've added some cool stuff, and thus far nothing has "jumped the shark" in my book. The expanded character generation is very cool. The little things they've added to ship construction are icing. And the promise of using the system in different universes rocks.

 

[spinwardpirate]

the current version of Traveller is the one being actively supported and expanded, and I think that might be the difference that people are trying to make.

Bing! New material generates excitement! That draws new players, thus keeping the game alive.

 

[Qstor2]

Bing! New material generates excitement! That draws new players, thus keeping the game alive.

I agree. I've played Traveller since 1977 when I got the black Traveller book hardback. I didn't get any MT or TNE material and haved played those rules. But later became a GURPS fan and ran a short lived GT game. I have material for all editions of the game, although I refer the GURPS and d20 rules. I think Mongoose does a great job of putting the game under one rules system. So I'm using MGT for my next game. I like High Guard cause its easy to convert old ships to the new Mongoose rules and I've converted a few for my game.

QLI isn't giving active support to T20 so I'm glad Mongoose is generating some excitement for the setting.

Mike

 

[Supplement Four]

Nobody's rubbishing CT. But the current version of Traveller is the one being actively supported and expanded, and I think that might be the difference that people are trying to make.

I wish I could get on board with Mongoose Traveller. I really do. I wanted to like it and be its number one fan.

But, I just can't. Everytime I start digging into, trying to change my own mind about it, I find myself disappointed again with game design decisions.

God, how I wanted MGT to be the ultimate version of Traveller. Maybe my expectations were too high. All I keep seeing is just another version of Traveller--not a great one.

My disappointment keeps me from embracing it.

 

[Allensh]

I wish I could get on board with Mongoose Traveller. I really do. I wanted to like it and be its number one fan.

But, I just can't. Everytime I start digging into, trying to change my own mind about it, I find myself disappointed again with game design decisions.

God, how I wanted MGT to be the ultimate version of Traveller. Maybe my expectations were too high. All I keep seeing is just another version of Traveller--not a great one.

My disappointment keeps me from embracing it.

I, on the other hand, never expect the "ultimate" version of anything. I do think perhaps because you love Traveller so much, you developed expectations that might have been too high. I just wanted a good version that was better than the last attempt (that wouldn't be hard, although i did have fun with T4).

Allen

 

[Supplement Four]

Allensh,

You seem to be responding to me. I see that there are two immediate replies from you right after my posts.

Don't forget that I have banned you from my sight. I can see that you've posted, but I can't see the words.

 

[Original_Carl]

So, Classic Traveller then? I'm pretty infatuated with MGT right now. What advantages does CT have over MGT?

 

[Supplement Four]

So, Classic Traveller then? I'm pretty infatuated with MGT right now. What advantages does CT have over MGT?

Check the threads in the Mongoose section of this forum. Much of it has been discussed to death.

Plus, you can get the entire GDW Classic Traveller game line, on CD-ROM, for $35 bucks. There's no waiting for stuff to come out. It's all there. Years of publication for the price of one book.

But, hey, if you're diggin' MGT, go with that. Just because I prefer CT over MGT doesn't mean you'll feel the same way.

 

[Original_Carl]

But, hey, if you're diggin' MGT, go with that. Just because I prefer CT over MGT doesn't mean you'll feel the same way.

Understood. I'll check out the other threads in the MGT forum. I'm sorely tempted to by 0-8 from Marc's website just to read them and see the differences between CT and MGT myself. I haven't played CT in over 20 years, so MGT looks hauntingly familiar.

I don't want to end up in a situation like I did with D&D 3.x where I have over 20 books of rules and none of them quite do what I want them to do.

MGT has done a great job of delivering a game with a lot of potential in a relatively small package. I'm just wondering if I could get more of that from LBBs 0-8.