Corrosion / Oxidation problem with lead miniatures

[Thunderbolt]

I managed to snag a sealed box of Citadel Miniatures last week on eBay, the Ships Crew box set.

Imagine my glee of being able to own again, a set of figures unopened since they were made all those years ago!!!

Unfortunately, sixteen out of the twenty are covered in some kind of dark gray powder or soot, which rubs off slightly when the figures are handled.

I've contacted the seller three times and have had no reply, so I am at a loss to what to do. Is this is a known problem, do lead figures go bad like this? Can it be fixed in some way, perhaps some cleaning agent to remove the gray material without damaging the figures?

 

[rancke]

I managed to snag a sealed box of Citadel Miniatures last week on eBay, the Ships Crew box set.

Imagine my glee of being able to own again, a set of figures unopened since they were made all those years ago!!!

Unfortunately, sixteen out of the twenty are covered in some kind of dark gray powder or soot, which rubs off slightly when the figures are handled.

I've contacted the seller three times and have had no reply, so I am at a loss to what to do. Is this is a known problem, do lead figures go bad like this? Can it be fixed in some way, perhaps some cleaning agent to remove the gray material without damaging the figures?

Yes, the alloy used in old miniatures contained tin. Tin exists in two different forms, the usual and a rare one. Sometimes one form turns into the other. This causes blisters and/or powdering on the surface of the miniature. My father explained the process to me 30 years ago, but I've forgotten most of the details.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

It is a common problem, just simple surface tarnish*. A good scrub with dish soap and water using a medium or soft tooth brush should do the trick (and you want to clean them anyway before priming and painting to remove mold and handling contaminants). Then handling them clean (gloves to avoid hand oils) get them primed after a good drying and they should never tarnish again

* I was going to mention the lead rot thing, but I've never seen it in minis and find it hard to credit, not saying it isn't so, just not in my experience with mini figs in the last 30+ years

 

[rancke]

* I was going to mention the lead rot thing, but I've never seen it in minis and find it hard to credit, not saying it isn't so, just not in my experience with mini figs in the last 30+ years

As I said, it's tin "rot", not lead. My father was a professor of chemistry and told me all about it. And, yes, cleaning the mini thouroughly should do the trick, but you'll never save the details that has already been destroyed.


Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Congrats!

Ya lucky bugger. I miss my Imperial Marines, but all those moves, well in the end they didn't survive all the changes of station....

Still congrats, on your new crew, I still have a couple of mine...say, any of you mini-dudes got a good method for removing old paint so as one could go back and repaint them? I had a roommate who tried ammonia and bleach, we got him to dump it, but I always wonder how well it would have worked. Anyway, if ya can.

And one last time, congratulations on your Citadel's. Nice catch!

 

[far-trader]

...any of you mini-dudes got a good method for removing old paint so as one could go back and repaint them?

Depends on the paint. And if they got a clear coat after. Just paint is usually easy.

Mixing ammonia and bleach is a chemical bomb :nonono: You get chlorine gas iirc. Nasty stuff.

(and I don't think it would have worked at all, or not any better than water, but a good whiff of it and you would have had other worries... )

Most paints will come off with a little turpentine soak and soft brush with no harm to metal minis. I've hard a hard time finding something that works well for clear coats and enamels, but a paint stripper will often do the trick, or at least soften it enough to brush or scrape (carefully) off. Just watch out for the chemical burns on fingers and such. Wear gloves, work well ventilated and covered on several layers of newspaper.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Soak them in Simple Green or Greased Lightning over night, use a soft tooth brush, wear gloves too, Eye protection if you enjoys looking at the wimmins.
Rinse well, wash with soap and water, let dry and prime away.

That works on platic minis too, use a test sample first if plastic, just in case. I have heard of rare instances where some claimed softening of the plastics. More common is the glue goes with the paint too.

Tried it on some of my BFG ships, back before they got stolen, worked good.

That makes Mustard Gas, burns the lungs and you drown on the inside, oh, you go blind too, not so much an issue when you can't breath.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Thanks.

As for the safety issues, trust me I know. After all, I have worked with chemicals before.

Still thanks for the info, and I don't remember clear coating any...

 

[morfydd]

Ya lucky bugger. I miss my Imperial Marines, but all those moves, well in the end they didn't survive all the changes of station....

Still congrats, on your new crew, I still have a couple of mine...say, any of you mini-dudes got a good method for removing old paint so as one could go back and repaint them? I had a roommate who tried ammonia and bleach, we got him to dump it, but I always wonder how well it would have worked. Anyway, if ya can.

And one last time, congratulations on your Citadel's. Nice catch!

It would not have worked (bleacha nd ammonia) as to the paint the best ive found is avaible in any store ..acetone ..also knowne as fingernail polish remover..(it will remove any kind of coating and not hurt the minature) ..and its realitively safe if flammable and smelly (ventilate the area ) ..look near the fingernail polish...pretty volitile stuff for women to use all the time but its safe enough with minor precautions and just use the brush it comes with or any cheap NON SYNTHETIC brush (it will eat 90% of the synthetic brushes ) but its guarnteed to get rid of the paint..OH almost forgot ..do not use acetone on a plastic mini ..unless you really want nothing but a blob of plastic left

 

[BlackBat242]

Acetone is also available (in a much less expensive per-unit form) in nearly all hardware stores under the name "acetone"... and is found in the paint/paint remover section.

 

[Thunderbolt]

I got this detailed explanation from the seller, who I might have mentioned worked at Citadel, typos are from the message:

The difference in patina (darkness of metal compared to
shiny metal) is a normal by product of the casting process. The material
used in these figures at manufacture almost 30 years ago was Lead Bizmuth -
this notably changed texture/sheen depending upon the temperature of
casting and the rate of cooling. This is perfectly normal for these
figures, and is prevalent in most castings of this era.

the shiny ones were probably cast at a higher temperature than the rest -
the shine only comes from over application of temperature (400 degrees as
opposed to 330 was usual). The temperature varied considerably within the
vats as more or less metal was added, and was also dependant upon the
impurities in the base alloy.

the dullness/multi-coloured
figure is a natural by product of the casting process - the shiny clean
figure is usually where it was too hot. This only applies to Lead Bizmuth
however - Pewter is nearly always shiny, only occassionally dull, and
always because of other factors involved in their process. Pewter was
rarely used in centrifugal/gravity casting because of its cost. Things have
changed a bit now with the advent of health and safety!

 

[Straybow]

Yeah, the bizmuth stabilizes the lead so it doesn't leach out... much. Just clean them and paint them. They'll be fine as long as nobody chews on them.

 

[far-trader]

...They'll be fine as long as nobody chews on them.

<Homer Simpson> "Mmm, leadfigs."

WARNING! Do not eat lead minis. Ever. No matter how temptingly painted they may be or how hungry you are.

 

[sabredog]

I always sprayed my figures with auto primer as soon as I got them home to prevent that oxidation from happening after I saw that some old figures I bought in the 70's had rotted till they were unrecognizable when stored in the garage for a couple years under what I thought were clean, dry conditions.

Priming them stopped this sort of thing from happening again, but now I checked the web and have found some good info on the phenomenon:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=152257

http://bigleesminipaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/lead-rot-myth-or-reality.html

 

[ThunderChilde]

Last but not least, Vinegar will remove the patina on older unsealed lead mini's, just soak them for a while and wash with soap and water. Got that from a distant relative who is a glass blower and artist, uses lead alloys in his work, it's what he uses. I do mean not long, minute or two, try wiping them down first before going for the soak.

 

[Darkhstarr]

I use acetone & paint thinner to remove paint. I've also use acetone to remove glue. I've also use Goo Gone to remove glue & grease off minis.

I agree with the skin oil problem, having highly acidic oils & sweat. Beside gloves & I use medical hemostats clamped in the base of the mini. I'm so acidic that if I'm working hard to sweat & have to have a change of shirts to prevent sweat buildup. Acid burns, even mild ones are not fun.

I also have to watch my minis if I'm painting indoors outside the library. I have a cat who likes to pick small metal objects (like minis) & walk around with them. Not chew on them, just carry them around.