CotI Spica Sector Project (CSSP)

[RainOfSteel]

I've created this as a place to discuss recent interest in doing detail work on the Spica Sector.


The original discussions leading to the creation of this thread took place in: What is the point of the Moot (board)?!

 

[RainOfSteel]

I notice a conflict between what is shown on the CT "map" from the Library Supplements, and what is shown in the Gal 2.4 .sec file.

There are *many* Hive Federation and Solomani Confederation worlds in the Gal 2.4 data according to their Allegiance Codes.

The CT-Map shows that neither star nation has any borders within the Sector.

While I can easily see that many of these worlds would be sympathetic to their closer neighber (or whatever), I would be relectant to assign the Allegiance Codes into direct Interstellar polities of large size.

For me, the obvious attraction to Spica would be a profusion of 1-3 world polities, with only portions of a few large states to spinward. This would give us lots of elbow room to maneuver.

 

[RainOfSteel]

I'm reposting this here because it seems to belong over here, too.

Here are the Spica Base and Allegiance Codes from Gal 2.4.

Bases:
A = Navy & Scout Bases
D = Naval Depot
N = Naval Base
S = Scout Base
L = Federation Navy Base
E = Fed. Embassy Center
M = Fed. Military Base
F = Fed. Military&Navy Base
G = Solomani Navy Base
= None

Allegiance:
09 Hv = Hive Federation
11 Hf = Fed. Develop. Agency
07 Xf = FDA world outside of HF
02 H* = Star Patterns Trading
10 Hi = Six Eyes Nest
08 Un = Unpopulated
04 Cs = Client State
07 Na = Non-aligned
11 So = Solomani Confederation

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Spica Subsector Names:

A Naav
B Bain
C Spica
D al Ajib
E Tupindur
F Three Spheres
G Virginis
H Sline
I Boreal
J Flux
K Farbor
L Erest
M Trillion
N Tohira
O Kurfane
P Syzygy

 

[RainOfSteel]

Does anyone have any information on Star Pattern Trading? It appears to have several worlds scattered randomly about (at least, they do in the gamma quadrant).

 

[RainOfSteel]

Actually, TP is not a trade code . . . but rather a "comment" code.

There are also non-trade comment codes:
- An : Publicly known Ancient site
- Cp : Capital
- O:XXXX : Captive world owned by ... (XXXX = hex of owner system)
- RsX : Imperial research station (X = identity)
- RwX : Refugee world (X = type)
- Tn : Terran Norm (Size=7-9 Atmos=6-7 Hydro=5-7)
- Tp : Terran Prime (Size 6-9 Atmos=4-9 Hydro=3-9 and not "Tn")


(Copy from http://lists.travellerrpg.com/pipermail/tml/2001-April/118688.html)

 

[Malenfant]

Are those "comment" codes official in any way? I've never seen them in a book before (apart possibly from An and Cp. Were those in WBH?)

I hate the Terran Norm and Prime classifications though, they sound way too Star Trekky for me. And is it me or does the Prime classification sound less earthlike than the Norm classification? Is that intended? "prime" to me sounds better than "norm".

 

[jappel]

The "Terran Norm" and "Terran Prime" designations come from CT Adventure 4, Leviathan, from 1980. Adventure 4 also one of the sources of the infamous "jump torpedo".

And yes, "Norm" is supposed to be closer match to Terra than "Prime" as written. I agree, not the best choice of terms.

John

 

[RainOfSteel]

Tn and Tp are from CT:Adventure 4: Leviathan. I've seen the "canonicity" of that source questioned many times. Their use as remarks alongside Trade Codes, though, I have no idea whether that's canon. I seem to recall seeing the O:XXXX a few times, though . . . I'll have to check around to make sure.

When I check Gateway to Destiny, it doesn't seem to have them.

However, it does appear in Gal 2.4:

Quatre 1319 B543965-A Hi In Po O:1818 114 Hv
Pyrolysia 0238 A7B0269-C G Lo Ni De O:0634 123 So

Tp & Tn appear, as well. As does Cp.


I think it would be very interesting to learn how it came to be that these "comments" wound up in Gal 2.4 Data. AFAIAC, it's great. Anything that enhances knowledge about the mainworld is fantastic.


Oh, yeah. I never did like, "t-norm/prime," either. They're easy enough to ignore. But the others, now, that information *is* good.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, Leviathan is listed in the list of canon stuff in the front of the Classic Books reprints. But yeah, I've heard it's full of stuff that is pretty much irreconcilable with later canon. Plus I've never seen those classifications anywhere else.

As far as I'm concerned, if something was proposed in CT but ain't been propagated throughout later versions of the game then it ain't canon. But that's just my definition of it - it makes things a lot easier to keep track of

.

Still, there is probably room for some extra classifications. Here's a few I came up with, which may or may not be useful:

An: Ancient site (TL G+)
Dx: Exotic Desert World (atm A+, hyd 0)
Op: Oppressive Regime (Gov 3,D,E,F OR Law D+)
Cx: Sector capital (Cp would be subsector capital)

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

I think for the sake of clarity it may be a good idea to forego the hugga mugga and go by the numbers whenever possible... comment codes are a good guideline , perhaps...

 

[Malenfant]

"hugga mugga"?

 

[clementk]

I'm not one much for canon in general but if we're going to not just wholly create a sector from scratch are there any other materials (preferably published) for this sector aside from the Galactic file(s)? I believe a magazine article was mentioned in the previous thread.

If this page is correct and that's the same info that's in Galactic I'm not so sure about the Galactic .sec file.

Then again I have no idea if these files

http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/old_sectors/spica.txt
http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/sectors/spica.sec
for example are any more "authoritative", complete, or useful. They look like AotI derived files to me but I'm no authority on Traveller sector data.

Regardless I agree Malenfant etc. might as well clean up the stellar data at the least. This project does sound like it could be fun.

Casey

 

[RainOfSteel]

RE: Sector Data Quality & Canonicity

The Galactic .sec file has all the names in it, but no Stellar Data.

The H&E .hes file has few mainworld names, and a larger scatter of Stellar Data (but not all entries have Stellar Data).

Essentially: Although GTD has recently used what amounts to previously published and "uncanonized" data, thereby "canonizing" it, all other sector data, all of it, remains unauthorized and suspect. This according to LKW and others here and on the TML.


What I think we need to do is hammer out what, exactly, we're going to do in regards to "following the rules".

I say we are doing this for ourselves. If we do high quality work, and the data looks good, then others will use it because it's good. Will everyone use it? Probably not. If a later "canon" Spica emerges w/out regard to what we have done . . . I say we steel ourselves to it now and go our own way, adhering to the published rules of Traveller where we all agree those rules make sense, and in our own rules (like Malenfant's Stellar Generation rules) when the published rules make no sense.

In the end, an interesting place to adventure is what we're looking for, not something that can be stamped "according to Hoyle". And in that event that a canon Spica is produced, it will likely be done w/out regard to what we've done, so we're not working for official publication . . . or, are we?

Now, we can, of course, follow every rule.

Which way will we go? OTU-Rules (such as they are) and officialdom; or plausibile house-rules and better looking star systems?

A narrow path between? Use strict rules except in a few cases (like the Stellar Data . . . as if I weren't hinting too strongly).

 

[BeRKA]

More on Spica can be found at URL:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ngc5139/FDA/spicahome.html

 

[Morte]

I would say that the key point of interest in Spica is the three-way border between the Solomini, the Hive and the NA/PE zone, plus it's just about on the Imperium's radar. The fundamentals are excellent -- only Reavers' Deep and the Spinward Marches have the same potential for tension, intrigue and conflict.

Check out the GURPSiverse border, it's even better than the 1116 border.

Let's have lots of border tension, systems living under new masters, long range IISS "survey", client states, forward bases, rebel groups, spies, diplomats, trade opportunities, minor races, secret bases, undeclared border wars and skirmishes, pocket empires, state-sponsored privateering and refuges, deep space refuelling depots, unofficial technology exchanges, Imperial merchants, Imperial "merchants", and of course Fiendishly Cunning Hiver Plots.

Get all that sorted then fit the UWPs and allegiance codes to it, not vice versa. Traveller has always done this the wrong way around. You guys don't have to stick to the canonical (and crap) bottom-up approach for the usual reasons of setting/designer inertia.

 

[Malenfant]

Get all that sorted then fit the UWPs and allegiance codes to it, not vice versa. Traveller has always done this the wrong way around. You guys don't have to stick to the canonical (and crap) bottom-up approach for the usual reasons of setting/designer inertia.

Excellent idea. I'm all for it

 

[jappel]

Keep in mind the only person who can say what is or is not canonical system data is Marc Miller. Hunter remarked in a thread regarding the Gateway book that QLI was required to use the data Marc provided "as is" to ensure compatibility with canon.

It might not hurt to approach him, describe the fan project, and ask for permission to use his data, along with offering to clean it up - though the nature of the cleaning would need to be determined (i.e., just physical impossibilities like size 1 worlds with standard atmospheres, or also logical implausibilities like pop A rockballs 1 parsec from a unpopulated garden world).

He could always say no to either aspect, but then you'd know and could set expectations & scope the work accordingly.

I wish you guys well either way. Personally, I think creating a brand-new Traveller setting from a clean slate would be a much cooler prospect (and would side-step the whole canon issue), but I recognize that doesn't float everyone's boat.

John

 

[jappel]

Ack, just re-read Morte's post and caught his excellent suggestion that Malenfant seconded.

I think what's needed for this is a "Great Game" (reference to the Great Game played by the GDW folks, starting from the then-present day, to create the 2300 milieu). Start with the raw physical stats, seed in the existing alien races (gotta be some!) and set the initial borders or enclaves of the outsiders, pick a start date and game out the events up to whatever your chosen period is.

Now, that is an effort I could get behind.

John

 

[Malenfant]

Actually, I'd rather make a whole new Spica sector from scratch (keeping the existing borders though), that could potentially still fit into canon after the fact. That way we don't have to worry about what anyone else says about it

. It sounds like nothing important enough to show up in the Traveller timeline has ever happened in the Spica sector anyway.

Let's face it, in practise this is all going to be a IOTU (In Our Traveller Universe) thing anyway. It'd be nice to do something that's unhindered by existing work.