Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Mesons don't interact with anything, except screens, until they rematerialize.
Looks like bays' back on the menu, boys!
Looks like bays' back on the menu, boys!
General ** Could a 16-ton Light Fighter effectively operate as a pirate vessel?
- Thread starter RonaldTrany
- Start date
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
HG'2016 hid them in the "High Technology" chapter (p68), to comply with T5 IIRC.
HG'2022 put them back with normal weapons (p32-33).
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
MgT's gonna MgT, I guess.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
All editions have their "inspired" moments...
In general MgT2 is better than most.
MgT1 had three different spacecraft design systems, depending on size. Two with lettered drives and one with percentage drives. Sigh...
Then it seems that what atmosphere affects is the effect of the mesons, not the mesons themselves.
Otherways, the deep meson sites in atmosphere planets would loss effectivity too...
Last edited:
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Dragging things back to the original question
... the only "real" reason for wanting a fighter small craft to be 16 tons (specifically) is so that Agility=6 requires just under 1 EP (0.96 to be exact). This is useful in the context of power plants that generate EPs only in multiples of 2 (which I've calculated LBB2.81 drives to do).If you have a Power Plant-A drive (the same type that gets used in Scout/Couriers and Free Traders) installed into a small craft, it will generate 2 EP for whatever craft it gets installed into (because letter drives are "standard" drives). A 16 ton form factor only needs 0.96 EP to achieve Agility=6, leaving 1.04 EP remaining for allocation to either a computer (model/3+) or turret weapons (lasers or plasma gun).
In other words, there's a very convenient "load balancing" factor going on with Drives-A/A in the 16 ton form factor.
If you're instead using LBB5.80 custom drives instead ... you're probably going to want to move to a 20 ton form factor (the "biggest small" for a small craft bridge @ minimum 4 tons) as a "better balance point" than the 16 ton form factor for a fighter small craft @ TL=9-10.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I didn't use HG80, I used house rules. I looked at the small craft examples and then used the "rule zero" granted by "The referee... may use his own imagination while doing so, rather than strictly adhering to the letter of the rules..."
The exact house rules I used were:
"extrapolate or interpolate from the listed designs"
The 16 ton fighter is a half sized slow boat +1 ton. The 10t fighter is 4MCr. more expensive than a launch so I added 4MCr. to the cost of the slow boat.
The 30t fighter is basically an upgunned ship's boat, and again I added 4MCr. to the cost.
The 50t fighter is based on the cutter, with extra engines and weapon capability, you can guess the added cost
The exact house rules I used were:
"extrapolate or interpolate from the listed designs"
The 16 ton fighter is a half sized slow boat +1 ton. The 10t fighter is 4MCr. more expensive than a launch so I added 4MCr. to the cost of the slow boat.
The 30t fighter is basically an upgunned ship's boat, and again I added 4MCr. to the cost.
The 50t fighter is based on the cutter, with extra engines and weapon capability, you can guess the added cost
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is a more obvious answer...
the author made a mistake and it wasn't spotted during the editing or inner circle oversight.
I will not rule out this, but I told about the consequences of this rule, not about its validity....
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
OK.Dragging things back to the original question
OK, so it's only relevant under your house rules based on CT.
No problem with that, of course, just looking for the scope of the discussion. Hence no need to drag in say MT or MgT fighters into this.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
OK, while I don't quite agree with the details of the result, that's my problem...
Ah. I only have the 2016 version, and didn't think to look there after I saw Meson spinal mounts, but not meson bays in the main section. I mean, the main section has such things as 'Gravimetric Disporters', 'Ion Cannons', and 'Tachyon Cannons', so it didn't occur to me that a smaller meson gun would be somehow super-special.
So, if faced with a spinal meson gun, you should not evacuate the air from your ship...
By the way, you can fit a meson gun into a turret in FF&S (minimum TL11). It'll have terrible range - extrapolating from the writeups for ships with very short-ranged sensors you might get 'extreme range' at 1 hex/range band, and 'long range' inside the firing ship's hex. The damage would be sufficient to frighten merchants, given they can't stop it and almost any damage to a ship is a mutli-million credit repair bill. In practice you'd be better off with a laser - the only times when the meson gun would do more damage would be vs armoured warships, and a weapon that only reaches one hex and does minor damage won't help you then.
By the way, in TNE meson guns don't do radiation damage. Presumably it's assumed the mesons' decay is into thermal energy and particles that do damage by thermal effects rather than by ionisation (more likely it was for game balance reasons).
Particle beams do, doubling the number of any crew casualties, and causing all non-fibre optic computers to reset (so no computers for the next turn on most civilian ships, which means all systems reset, so the ship gets to do nothing but drift next turn).
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
The HORROR!
The very IDEA that anything published in RAW could be wrong/in error is UNpossible!
Thou shalt not question The Most Holy RAW™ ... or words to that effect ... as you can (probably) tell, I'm really not all that bothered about it.
Obvious mistakes are obvious.
ANYTHING that we build using CT which isn't published in CT is effectively a "house rule design" ... by virtue of the circular logic that it wasn't published in CT and therefore isn't "blessed" into becoming RAW itself.
You really need to stop digging this Pit Of Purity™ of yours any deeper than it already is.
Different versions = Different rules = Different optimizations = Different conclusions
Obvious things are obvious.
At least, I was hoping that was the case ...
Actually, a different use case would be as an anti-docking/repel boarders type scenario.
You've got a hostile craft closing in on you and you don't want to let them hard dock.
When they get close enough ... meson gun them into "having a bad time of it" as a way to tell them that they are Not Welcome Aboard.
Basically a "spike pit trap" laid around the docking points of your craft (so to speak).
A highly specialized use case, but definitely a possibility as an added layer of security options against being boarded.
After all, without matter transporters/transmat "beaming" of objects from place to place, any type of boarding scenario will require what effectively amounts to "contact range" in order to hard dock two craft together.
Another use case would be what amounts to "scuttling charges" for a self-destruct. You essentially point the meson turret at something "important" on your own craft and use the meson gun turret for a pre-programmed Ship Vaporized critical hit result. If you've got a way to evacuate the crew/passengers before self-destruct via meson gun (using drop capsules, perhaps?
) you can lay quite the trap for an adversary attempting to board your craft.However, for MOST "ship to ship" combat at orbital ranges, you're quite right that a meson turret would be "substantially useless" except at ridiculously close ranges. Less of an archer and more of a porcupine.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I could likely take a second pass and adjust a couple of things, but the post was really just to show that you can use LBB:2 capsule descriptions to house rule something "good enough".
The costs need a balancing pass, but I am happy with the excess space giving the option of carrying a boarding party and/or a larger computer.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
That is still not how RAW works, it's not only Written, it's Rules.
What we build isn't rules, but can be built using RAW or house rules.
Yes, see how easy that was:
Using house rules is no problem.
Using house rules, pretending that it's RAW, is deceptive. Just be open about your house rules...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Apparently, the current view is that meson weapon systems are considered restricted technology.
So getting hold of one probably requires some form of license.
Or, you stole it.
So getting hold of one probably requires some form of license.
Or, you stole it.
The fighter as pirate surely only works if you have a carrier or a base that is accessible using your M-drive.
And if so you just need the target ship to eject its cargo and then catch it in a net and drag it back to wherever home is.
Or alternatively you have a cargo ship of your own on call to pick up and take away the loot.
I can't see any reason why you couldn't have a base ship with a whole squadron of fighters and use them to effectively blockade a target world looting every merchant that arrives or departs until the base ship is full or an enemy that can fight back turns up.
But this begs the question of why aren't those merchants armed or escorted if the sector is lawless enough for such a tactic to be feasible?
And if so you just need the target ship to eject its cargo and then catch it in a net and drag it back to wherever home is.
Or alternatively you have a cargo ship of your own on call to pick up and take away the loot.
I can't see any reason why you couldn't have a base ship with a whole squadron of fighters and use them to effectively blockade a target world looting every merchant that arrives or departs until the base ship is full or an enemy that can fight back turns up.
But this begs the question of why aren't those merchants armed or escorted if the sector is lawless enough for such a tactic to be feasible?
Three reasons:
1. Cost.
2. Cost.
3. Cost.
Plus, it's possible that a Pirate Clan this organized has more imagination than the Merchants they are preying on.
