Crewing questions.

[Magnus von Thornwood]

So I am putting together a crew for HMS Herald and I figured since she is a Imperial Naval vessel on TDY to the Diplomatic Corps, this would be the place to ask if folks could check my work, correct the mistakes and make various suggestions.

For those who are not aware, Herald is an 800 ton Expeditionary Yacht, Navy crewed on a Diplomatic Mission to the Zhodani Consulate to deliver the Imperial Ambassador to Chronor.

1. Captain (CMDR)
2. Executive Officer/First Astrogator (LCMD)
3. First Pilot (LT)
4. Second Astrogator (Ensign)
5. Second Pilot (Ensign)
6. Chief of Boat (CPO)
7. Chief Engineer (LCMD)
8. Engineer (CPO)
9. Engineering (PO)
10. Engineering (Mate 1st)
11. Ship's Doctor
12. Ship's Medic (CPO)
13. Signals Officer (LTJG)
14. Signals (CPO)
15. Signals (PO)
16. Signals (Mate 1st)
17. Signals (Mate 1st)
18. Signals (Mate 2nd)
19. Signals (Mate 3rd)
20. Gunner (CPO)
21. Gunner (PO)
22. Gunner (Mate 1st)
23. Gunner (Mate 2nd)
24. Steward
25. Frieghtmaster

You may note that three positions have no rank or rating, the reason for the omission is that well, I have been reading a bit of Patrick O'Brian's writing and I get that Age of Sail thing, so in keeping with that I figured that those positions may be filled by civilians.
So there it is. Thank you in advance.

Laterness,
Magnus.

 

[far-trader]

Any particular rules set? Or just a general more "realistic" approach regarding duties and such?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Traveller Five, sorta.

T5 was used for the actual mechanics build so the number per section is accurate, I believe, but can possibly be monkeyed with. But in answer to your actual question, more the later than the former. I am looking at Historical, Current, OTU, Major B's contributions if any, etc. Sort of checking my math as it were.

And feel free to sling names and races in if ya want. Am trying to touch of realism and depth in my game. Also I have this feeling from, again, reading O'Brian that ships will have a certain vibe based on crews.

So I am both trying to outsource some Referee duties, and actually get serious feedback on my thoughts and see if I missed some bleeding obvious thing that any salty sea/space dog might know but not us landlubber/dirtsider, civilian/amateur historian types might not.

(Some day computers will understand slang like "dirtsider" and not have to be taught the word...today is not that day.)

 

[far-trader]

Might see fit to add a liaison offcer (LNO) or two for handling the niceties of travelling through foreign space. Maybe a navy lawyer (JAG) or two expert in Consulate laws as well for the possible (inevitable?) legal snag. Just off the top of my head. If it suits your ideas.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

See stuff just like that...

Exactly what I was wondering. Hmm, wonder if that can be foisted off on the Stew?

 

[BlackBat242]

Military vessels frequently have gaps in their TO&E*, which are filled by civilian contractors, under-ranked/less-qualified personnel in line for promotion or undergoing on-the-job training, or just plain unfilled by anyone. This provides for lots of complications in an emergency

Also, there might well be an overqualified/over-rank person filling the slot (perhaps due to an excess of personnel for available slots, or because the individual has been blocked from advancement due to poor performance evaluations), who is stuck in a slot that doesn't need someone of his rank... a sure recipe for a disgruntled/careless/incompetent crewman.


* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_Organization_and_Equipment

The T/O section (of the TO&E) denotes every authorized billet within a unit by rank and Military Occupational Specialty required to fulfill the necessary duties.

 

[rancke]

...this would be the place to ask if folks could check my work, correct the mistakes and make various suggestions.

I don't think there are any rules for determining the rank of IN crewmembers, so there is no way to be wrong. But if you're interested in opinions...

IMTU I would never put a 25 man crew under a full commander. In fact, it's right on the edge where I'd wobble between a lt. commander and a lieutenant.

Mind you, The Kinunir puts a 70 man crew under a full captain, but if that's not a mistake, the IN is going to be seriously over-officered. Still, YMMV.

For those who are not aware, Herald is an 800 ton Expeditionary Yacht, Navy crewed on a Diplomatic Mission to the Zhodani Consulate to deliver the Imperial Ambassador to Chronor.

I'm surprised the IN isn't using a Tigress to deliver the ambassador (for historical reasons). :devil:

You have a surprisingly big signals department.


Hans

 

[Winterwolf]

crewing question

Hi
this is my first time posting.
In my opinion I would change the Signals Officer and one of the Signals Ratings to an Admin (Legal Officer) and and the rating as an Admin Rating.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Thanks.

Yea. Thanks all for the comments so far.

Ranke, good point, and again the reason I posted it. As for the Tigress, hush that is the future for the Players. :devil: As for Signals size that has to do with the goo-gobs of Commo/Sensor gear. Not that she is designed to glom up all the electronic emissions and signals they can, that would be sneaky.

Winterwolf, welcome aboard and thanks for choosing Thornwood Threads for your first posting. Also excellent idea.

Adjusts forthcoming soon, but company is on the way right now.

Laterness.

 

[Hemdian]

Part of this will depend if YTU is a small ship or big ship Imperium. In line with my take on IN ranks (but keeping the same roles as originally posted) I would adjust ranks as follows:

1. Captain (Normally O3, but perhaps O4 in this case)
2. Executive Officer/First Astrogator (O3)
3. First Pilot (O2)
4. Second Astrogator (O1)
5. Second Pilot (O1)
   
   
6. Chief of Boat (E8)
   
   
7. Chief Engineer (E7)
8. Engineering (E4-E6)
9. Engineering (E4-E6)
10. Engineering (E4-E6)
    
    
11. Ship's Doctor (O2-O3)
12. Ship's Medic (E4-E6 or O1)
    
    
13. Signals Officer (O2)
14. Signals (E7)
15. Signals (E4-E6)
16. Signals (E4-E6)
17. Signals (E4-E6)
18. Signals (E4-E6)
19. Signals (E4-E6)
    
    
20. Gunner (E7)
21. Gunner (E4-E6)
22. Gunner (E4-E6)
23. Gunner (E4-E6)
    
    
24. Steward (E2-E3)
25. Frieghtmaster (E3)

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ship sizes.

Actually I run a small, medium, large ship TU. I figure that it is like real Navies of superpowers, it has a mix of ships. I right now at least keep the big ships for big events.

So I guess right now, it would be classed as small ship TU. Does that alter anything in your post?

 

[rancke]

Actually I run a small, medium, large ship TU. I figure that it is like real Navies of superpowers, it has a mix of ships. I right now at least keep the big ships for big events.

In this context big and small refer to the maximum size of any ship. If you have big ships, it's a Big Ship Universe. That doesn't mean there won't be plenty of small ships around.

However, it does mean that the top Imperial diplomatic representative to Chronor and his personal entourage is travelling by an extremly small ship by IN standards. How important is Chronor in YTU? How important would an ambassador to Chronor be? How many people would accompany him? I don't mean the entire embassay staff, but personal assistants, family, servants, that sort of thing.

To give an Age of Sail analogy, it seems to me to be like traveling by a ten-gun brig where I'd expect at least a frigate. A small one, anyway .


Hans

 

[Sanjuro]

Sometimes the rank of the captain can be a LOT higher than the ship would justify; in some of the later Hornblower books he assumes command (admittedly as a Commodore or Admiral supervising the ship's captain) of small vessels.
Similarly, the lead vessel of a squadron can have a captain of a higher rank than the vessel might justify. For example, a squadron of destroyers would be led by a Captain on one ship, whose title would be Captain (D) to reflect the destroyer squadron command; the other vessels would probably have Commanders in charge.
Please note my use of capitals; where Captain has a capital letter it is the actual rank, where in lower case it is the position; ie, as other posters have made clear, a Lieutenant Commander or even a Lieutenant can be the captain (lower case ) of a smaller ship.

 

[Hemdian]

Exactly right, Hans.

Consider the Kinunir: is it an expression of the might of the IN? Or is it good enough for anti-piracy but largely irrelevant in fleet actions? My post assumed a 'Big Ship TU consistent with later CT products but ignoring FSotSI.

For this mission, at times of heightened tension I would have gone with something like an AHL with ceremonially 'sealed' gun ports. In peace time, if you want low-key then I would have expected a mid-sized civilian liner (such as the 5K dton King Richard) with a some screening ships (two or three 1K dton destroyer escorts).

 

[Hemdian]

<snip>

Thanks, I didn't know that about the use of capitals. But I did suggest the captain be one rank higher than would be normal for a ship this size due to the importance of the mission.

I'm not sure the Hornblower books are a good reference in this case. In the Hornblower universe the His Majesty's Navy isn't as large an organisation as the IN. Thus (sometimes) specific trusted officers may be given missions and assigned suitable resources for that mission without regard to the 'appropriateness' of that resource for someone of that rank. That could still happen in the IN but I think it would be rare (at least in peace time).

 

[Vargas]

Military vessels frequently have gaps in their TO&E, which are filled by civilian contractors . . .

Seriously? What sort of positions can civilian contractors have on military vessels?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Seriously? What sort of positions can civilian contractors have on military vessels?

Cooks, cleaners, tech support.

 

[Sanjuro]

Hemdian, although the RN in the early 19th Century was not as large as the IN, it was arguably as dominant- from 1759 to 1918 it was in almost complete control of the world's oceans, and the time lag in communications makes the need for a more senior officer on the spot just as appropriate.

 

[rancke]

Sometimes the rank of the captain can be a LOT higher than the ship would justify; in some of the later Hornblower books he assumes command (admittedly as a Commodore or Admiral supervising the ship's captain) of small vessels.

When that happens, there's always some unusual circumstances involved.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean that it's common. If yuo have a small ship captained by a lieutenant, you just accept it. If you're told the regular captain is also the sector admiral, you refuse to believe it (Well, I would, anyway). But in between are the situations that are possible, but arouse curiosity. And that's where my GMs better have a decent explanation to give me. I realize that some players don't fret about that sort of thing, but I do.

Similarly, the lead vessel of a squadron can have a captain of a higher rank than the vessel might justify. For example, a squadron of destroyers would be led by a Captain on one ship, whose title would be Captain (D) to reflect the destroyer squadron command; the other vessels would probably have Commanders in charge.

On the other hand, Peter Bull, in his autobiography "To Sea in a Sieve", tells of how the landing craft he served in (small vessels with just two officers) had lieutenant commanders for squadron commanders in addition to the lieutenants who captained the landing craft. They might take passage on one of the crafts, but they wouldn't command it.


Hans

 

[Sanjuro]

Hans, both cases can be true; the commander of a squadron may or may not be the commander of one of the ships- it varies on a case by case basis. The great thing is, this gives the GM the choice- he can use whatever variant is appropriate to the scenario.
Usually, where the squadron commander IS the captain of one of the ships, the ships are all of the same class, and usually the squadron is only 4 or 5 ships.
As you say, the higher the rank of the captain of the ship (in comparison to the size) the more unusual the scenario. This can be a clue to give your players! If, for instance, there is a Commodore in charge of a Gazelle Class Escort, that tells the attentive player two things:
1. There is something going on that justifies the presence of a senior officer
and perhaps more importantly;
2. There are almost certainly more ships nearby- possibly including Capital ships.
For the original question, for a small ship on diplomatic missions, the assignment of a senior officer, while appropriate, might be inadvisable because it advertises the importance of the mission.
And with all due respect to Peter Bull, my naval service was considerably more recent than his, and it was regular service, rather than Hostilities Only.