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D&D Magic in T20 (game mechanic)

While I know someone is going to have a fit about this, I was wondering about what mechanic GM's were going to use for magic in the T20 setting. It would seem that magic would sap a characters Stamina first, regardless of armor, and then drain their LifeBlood. Anything else makes magic either too powerful, or a joke when wearing armor. The qualifier I use is that magic is "ethereal" in nature, and only half physical in the sense of a grenade. This would also explain why magic only does 25% damage to inanimate objects.

What do you guys think? (No, this is not an invitation to complain about the subject matter...)
 
Originally posted by MrOberon1972:
What do you guys think? (No, this is not an invitation to complain about the subject matter...)
Were I using T20 (and I doubt I will be) and if I felt the need to add DnD magic (which I don't) I'd try to get it to fit as much as possible the psionics rules. Surely this is part of the reason for the "Special" category of psionics. Under CT (the rule set I'm most comfortable with) I'd require spending psi points = to a spells level to prepare it for casting (either memorizing for mages or praying for clerics.)

How well this translates to T20 I haven't the foggiest. Perhaps just using the standard dandy magic rules will be close enough. Heck it's not like hokey spell names and ancient tomes are any match for a FGMP-15 anyway.
 
Originally posted by MrOberon1972:
While I know someone is going to have a fit about this, I was wondering about what mechanic GM's were going to use for magic in the T20 setting. It would seem that magic would sap a characters Stamina first, regardless of armor, and then drain their LifeBlood. Anything else makes magic either too powerful, or a joke when wearing armor. The qualifier I use is that magic is "ethereal" in nature, and only half physical in the sense of a grenade. This would also explain why magic only does 25% damage to inanimate objects.

What do you guys think? (No, this is not an invitation to complain about the subject matter...)
When you talk about sapping Stamina first, I assume you mean the casting character? This is how it works in Star Wars with Force using characters, and seems to work reasonably well from what I've seen (a bunch of 3-4th level Jedi). I'd leave spell effects the same, but I've not played all that much D&D using magic :)
 
You could do it a few ways.

1) As mentioned, adapt the Psionics system and call it magic. Require the 'wizards' to have to mutter arcane lore, perform specific rituals, and/or have posession/sacrifice certain types of items to be able to empower the 'spell'.

2) Easiest method, use the rules from the D&D PHB.

3)I'd also look at Dragonstar. I see a lot of ways you could cross T20 and Dragonstar.

4) Run some form of variant system of your own choosing. If you run it based on some form of Power and don't use the Psionics rules, yes I would use Stamina as the source.

Hunter
 
Wasn't there an old fantasy world setting, I think based on "Thieves' World" that included stats for Classic Traveller? I never did see it, but if it did, there might be at least guidelines on how they handled magic, and from there you could at least wing it a bit.

Otherwise, if you're going to include 3ED&D magic, I'd go to using the basic OGL/D20 hp system...makes it more cinematic, but well...to be honest, dumping 3eD&D magic is making it pretty cinematic to start with.

Me
 
Personally, I'd rather have my face peeled with a wood rasp than use the D&D magic system anywhere, including in a D&D game.

However, were I inclined to use magic in T20, I would probably either a) Just fudge it, b) scour OGL products for a suitably non-crappy magic system to use in place of the standard D&D system, or c) Use some variant of either the T20 or D&D psionics system as a baseline, and just call it "magic".
 
Were I to want to add "Magic" to the T20 system, I use an up-powered version of the T20 psi system. Allow feats for adding to PSI strength, make the PSI drugs not quite as nasty, add a bunch of powers.

I always disliked the D&D magic system, it's too in your face and overpowered. I prefer my magic to be more subtle and requiring thought to use properly, but devistatingly effect when used properly. (Zho commandos teleporting onto your bridge for example).
 
I was thinking about this recently... Not because I wanted to bring magic into Traveller but because I wanted to use lifeblood/stamina in d&d3e.

1) Count AC as AR of equal level... Full plate has AC 8--that would suck 8d6 off of the typical fireball. This would take care of most of your problem.

2) Secondly limit the damage of spells. I was using con only for hit points for a while (Lifeblood without stamina). I found that limiting the damage of spells to the that of the caster level at which they were introduced also balanced things well.
 
Seeing that this is a "free" forum and "free" boards, anyone can say most anything and voice most opinions....and that even includes ME...so I am voicing my opinion and saying what i feel, and this is it.....concerning D&D magic...and magic in TRAVELLER in general......

SOME BODY GET A ROPE!!!!!!
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Originally posted by MrOberon1972:
It would seem that magic would sap a characters Stamina first, regardless of armor, and then drain their LifeBlood.
I would think that the effect of armor would depend on the type of spell cast (much like it is dependant on the type of weapon used). Cloth armor would help with any impact damage like a meteor swarm, or reflec might help with a fireball.

I don't think the addition of magic would upset the ballance of a game too much (unless you did let the players get ahold of Bucknard's Everful Hydrogen Tanks!), you could explain it away as TL25+ technology that is in the hands of a much lower tech populus. It wouldn't be widespread (Your characters just happen to come across it).

Or, if you like the darker feel, it could be even current tech that was based on research that would normally be forbidden (Such as electrode implants and rudimentry AI computer in cadavers to make zombies)...
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(casts: summon rope)

ummmm errrr uhhh oops

hey TJ just think we sould teach the vorpal bunny girls to be spell casters and we could charm all the opposition.
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Originally posted by trader jim:
Seeing that this is a "free" forum and "free" boards, anyone can say most anything and voice most opinions....and that even includes ME...so I am voicing my opinion and saying what i feel, and this is it.....concerning D&D magic...and magic in TRAVELLER in general......

SOME BODY GET A ROPE!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Cleon the Mad:
Wasn't there an old fantasy world setting, I think based on "Thieves' World" that included stats for Classic Traveller? I never did see it, but if it did, there might be at least guidelines on how they handled magic, and from there you could at least wing it a bit.
__________________________________________________
I have that Game supplement. It'll take me a while diggin' it out. I'll get back with you on that.But yer basically dealing with a TL1/TL-2 world (greco-Roman to Medieval times).
It has also ways to play with Swords and Chivalry/ Runequest D&D, AD&D, Tunnels and Trolls, and sevral others.
 
Originally posted by MrOberon1972:
Actually, for stamina drain, I was referring to the damage effect to the targeted character.
Stamina is the same as D&D's HP, so yeah, I'd reduce that first, then go onto Lifeblood.
As a previous post mentioned, armour damage reduction would depend on the spell. I'd probably say that any spell that is 'thrown' (Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Magic Missile) would get reduced.

Of course, if you wanted you can use T20 as D&D d20 by dropping Lifeblood and damage reduction. Then just run it as you would D&D.
Or add the T20 nice bits into your D&D campaign. IIRC there's a paragraph in the combat section saying how to use armour from other d20 games.

OT. That's one of the bits I like most about T20 (and indeed, d20); it's very easy to chop and change rules between games. In Judge Dredd defense is 10 + Reflex instead of just Dex as a good example. But I digress :)
 
Trader jim:

I agree with you but...it's his game. If he wants to play Dragonstar in the Traveller Universe, it's his call.

However, the first player who asks to play a wizard (or worse, an Elf) in MY Traveller game gets a plasma suppository...

Allen
 
hey allenS,

Can I play a Drow Elf in your Traveller game?

*evil grin*

Just teasin'!!!

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain
[thank the ancients it's a black globe]


D'oh!! That's right *I* am an Ancient...
 
Originally posted by Tarn:
I was thinking about this recently... Not because I wanted to bring magic into Traveller but because I wanted to use lifeblood/stamina in d&d3e.

1) Count AC as AR of equal level... Full plate has AC 8--that would suck 8d6 off of the typical fireball. This would take care of most of your problem.
I too have been considering this - I was looking at halving the AC bonus to determine AR simply because most melee weapons roll only 1 to 2 dice for damage, and the only way to up the dice is through a critical hit. In T20, dice can get added to damage through burst fire or from scaling between personal, vehicular, and starship weapon scales - these things simply are not available as options in a Fantasy D20 game.

If you halve the AC bonus, then plate mail has an AR=4, which means the average dagger is going to bounce off unless it gets a critical (which makes sense). If you go the AC=AR, then plate has an AR=8, meaning that most 1-handed melee weapons bounce off (since most of themm use a 1d8 or less). Obviously strength mods may just breach the threshold by a point or two, but this will be rare.

As a neat twist, I also planned on using the magical bonuses on a magical weapon as armor piercing (thus that trusty ol' +1 sword will actually reduce the AR of your target by one, and a +4 weapon is truly awesome). This fit some of the more dramatic stories where magical blades seem to cut through armor like soft butter.

2) Secondly limit the damage of spells. I was using con only for hit points for a while (Lifeblood without stamina). I found that limiting the damage of spells to the that of the caster level at which they were introduced also balanced things well.
I have not figured out how magic would work with the AR and lifepoint yet. Most of D&D's ranged damaging spells are based on range touch attacks (thus ignoring armor). Applying AR normally against the damage dice may fit (as spell damage tends to roll multiple dice), but only if spell damage is going to go against Lifeblood (thus unarmored targets of a spell ar TOAST).

This is going to make magic deadly, but then again, using Lifeblood and AR in melee should make the game deadly too. Whether it balances or not is really up to play testing to decide.
 
Originally posted by AllenS:
Trader jim:

I agree with you but...it's his game. If he wants to play Dragonstar in the Traveller Universe, it's his call.

However, the first player who asks to play a wizard (or worse, an Elf) in MY Traveller game gets a plasma suppository...

Allen
How about a Kender?
:eek:
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