Darrians and Sword Worlds

[MJD]

Feel free to use or ignore Mr Gray's work as you will. I have not read it and will not be considering it in any way.

While other highly motivated flame-keepers have chosen to comunicate and work with me, resulting in some of their ideas becoming canon in the new TNE, Mr Gray responded rather differently. Rund about the time he said he wnted me dead, I decided to completely ignore him.

The M:1248 book may or may not contradict Mr Gray's work, but it will certainly not be influenced one way or another by it.

 

[Cymew]

Originally posted by DED:

If GURPS had used the metric system like it should (sorry, but that is my one BIG gripe about GT), the conversion would be simpler. Otherwise you have to know that 500 cubic feet (cf) is one "space" is one "dton". With that, a rough conversion to at least High Guard is possible.

I just have to chime in an agreement there.

Publishing a Traveller line without going metric really is a no brainer.

OK, now I said it. I just hate GT for that!

But since Jon have been doing a good job of "selling" the non-crunchyness of some GT books I might buy one of them anyway...

Well, back on topic. Sorry.

 

[savage]

This expansion into Sword Worlds is something I never bought into. With everything going on it should've collapsed. I'd suggest an slight alternative. If your a splinter Zhodani govt (say 20-30 regional stars) and the Regency and take out your client state wouldn't you call it invasion and run to the rescue. Afterall your next. If your Darrian would you join with the Sword Worlds. Yeah like israel and egypt? Lets be pals.

The Regency shouldn've had the bandwidth. The agressive assault should've collapsed under any pressure when they were taking back captured worlds.

Now the Darrians and 5 sisters forming a splinter I'd buy. Heck. If I was the Darrians I would've negotiated it in exchange for assistance versus the virus and to watch the back against the Zhodani.

Savage

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Savage:
This expansion into Sword Worlds is something I never bought into. With everything going on it should've collapsed. I'd suggest an slight alternative. If your a splinter Zhodani govt (say 20-30 regional stars) and the Regency and take out your client state wouldn't you call it invasion and run to the rescue. Afterall your next. If your Darrian would you join with the Sword Worlds. Yeah like israel and egypt? Lets be pals.

The Regency Sourcebook is quite clear on this. The Regency never made their move against the Sword Worlds until they had cleared it with the Zhodani. (This was done prior to the Zhodani implosion/exodus.) The Zhodani didn't ride to the rescue because they were co-conspirators with the Regency (and Darrians).

And the Zhodani knew they were not next. First, they were already on a good relationship with the Regency. Second, the Regency was not a threat as it was too small compared to the Consulate.

Fundamentally, the Zhodani jettisoned the Sword Worlds because they were no longer useful. Frankly, the Zhodani had probably long wanted to rid themselves of the Sword Worlds and willing handed them over to the Regency.

The Regency shouldn've had the bandwidth. The agressive assault should've collapsed under any pressure when they were taking back captured worlds.

The Regency Sourcebook points out that the attack on the Sword Worlds was a overwhelming response. They likely employed many of their freed up "Aslan hunters" to do the job. The Sword World "invasions" were really just glorified "flag plantings"; none of the systems were captured in any real sense. The Regency probably ignored them and just hammered the Sword Worlds themselves.

And managing the Sword Worlds was a very large headache. Many of the Regency efforts (primarily the Denebian relocations) ended up just blowing up in their face.

Now the Darrians and 5 sisters forming a splinter I'd buy. Heck. If I was the Darrians I would've negotiated it in exchange for assistance versus the virus and to watch the back against the Zhodani.

Again the Zhodani are no threat to the Regency. (Nor the Regency to the Zhodani.) They are very much allies at this point. This friendship only ends when the Consulate effectively ceases to exist. There are no formal Zhodani successor states until after the time of the Regency Sourcebook (1202). Many have probably just barely formed by the time of MJD's TNE in 1248.

And there is no way the Regency would willingly let loose of any of the Five Sisters. There is just too much military capital involved. Plus they are very interested in keeping a "cap" on those two Droyne worlds. (I don't know why, but the Imperium/Domain/Regency always did their best to competely isolate Andor and Candory.)

 

[savage]

Good points all. I have and have read the Regency sourcebook several times. Doesn't mean that I like it though. So I'm suggesting that what is there be undone not built upon. Expansions collapse, etc...

The Zhodani were also less threatened when the position on telepaths changed in the Regency (to a certain degree) and were more worried about internal strife. Perhaps its how its written but I see the Regency Sourcebook has the Regency doing too much too quick (following MT). There was no reason for ALL of the Zhodani to say "oh yes take down SW". Actually how did Russia react when we moved Iraq... certainly the Zhodani were going to loose some serious trade agreements. And those Zho should be relatively bothered.

Guess I liked the expanded Sword Worlds, a Darrian client state and an enclosed Regency building slightly towards Corridor's trashed Depot and into Vagr space. Heck it would even be bad if part of the zho joined the regency...that would mess things up. A completely shattered Consulate.

Savage

 

[daryen]

Always keep in mind that the Regency Sourcebook was written at the height of the Regency (in terms of "game time"). Yes, they had done a lot of things and (improbably) been successful at all of them.

Or were they?

If you ignore the positive tone (which can be quite oppressive), you can easily see a Regency that is about ready to burst at the seems. They have significant problems, and any of them could explode, causing a cascade of failures that could rip the Regency apart. (I can list the problems if you want.)

Also, by the time of the Regency Sourcebook, the Zhodani Consulate has already ceased to exist. What the effects and results of that are, are still undefined. But the Consulate as we knew it is all but gone.

Despite being a Darrian fan (like you would expect different with my display name?), I was also saddened by the state of the Sword Worlds. But do keep one thing in mind. Just as the Regency Sourcebook describes the Regency at its (unsustainable) height, it also describes the Sword Worlds at their very bottom. If they continue to exist (which I believe they will), they have only one go.

So, you don't have to "undo" the Regency Sourcebook to make the Regency fail. It is already described as being primed to fail.

 

[Cymew]

Originally posted by daryen:

Also, by the time of the Regency Sourcebook, the Zhodani Consulate has already ceased to exist. What the effects and results of that are, are still undefined. But the Consulate as we knew it is all but gone.

Has the consulate ceased to exist? When, how? Is Dave Nielsen responsible? I'm starting to understand why he isn't that popular...

 

[robject]

You know, I hadn't thought about how much the Swordies relied on the Zhodani until now. Once Zhodani support is removed, and the Regency is bursting full of expansionistic pride, I can easily see how an unholy alliance of need can be made between them and the Darrians. Quite surprising how everything changes when everything changes.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Cymew:
Has the consulate ceased to exist? When, how? Is Dave Nielsen responsible? I'm starting to understand why he isn't that popular...

Skipping the DN issue, yes, the Regency Sourcebook shows a Zhodani Consulate that is no longer able to govern.

While the Regency Sourcebook does refer to Consulate in the present tense and gives a standard, historical description to the Consulate, the book describes something quite different.

It describes a government that does not honor its treaties, does not respond to communications, has internal battles and cannot control its citizens.

As for how, it is fundamentally the Empress Wave. The Wave does something fundamental to psions, which directly causes the fabric of Zhodani society to fail. More detail was never given.

 

[Arsulon]

I always thought it'd be a wise move for the Regency to sponsor a Zhodani reclaimation program. By backing a return to Consulate space initiative it would relieve the stress of hosting such a large, culturally dislocated refugee population, create a potentially useful Zho buffer state against the coreward chaos, and create new markets for Regency corporations to expand into.

It seems unlikely the Darrians would get into bed with the Swordworlders at this stage; after all, as of the Regency Sourcebook there's never been a greater degree of cooperation between the Denebians and their TL16+ buddies (e.g. the joint shipbuilding program.) Mind, I'm not necessarily interested in maintaining the status quo. The Darrians always seemed like wasted potential to me: we have a star trigger, but not really; we have TL16+, but it doesn't do anything but make fire sculptures; we're the only humans the Ancients seemed to give a damn about, but so what? I'm a big Regency fan, but it'd be great fun to see chaos sweep through the Spinward States, leaving the anxious Darrians as a bright light against the darkness. A new nationalist movement is born out of the pressure (perhaps aided by new archeological discoveries or a cultural renaissance) which claims the Darrians are the Elder Race of the Ancients, intended to bring the torch of civilization to the "orphaned races of men." They proceed on a path of enlightened conquest which sees them absorb the Swordies, eventually turning them into shock troops like the British did with the highland regiments.

OR... how about the Sword Worlders run roughshod over the Darrians in the wake of the chaos, enslaving them as a capitve race of thinkers? Perhaps the SW nobles would self-consiously begin to ape Darrian fashion and intellectuals would emulate their great thinkers and philosophers. This might be a fun take on the historical Roman-Greek dynamic: the conquerors are themselves colonized.

 

[daryen]

The Regency can't send the Zho refugees back becase they are too scared. They would likely fight to keep from going back. They have no idea what they are terrified of, but they ain't going back without a lot more problems than they already provide.

As for the Darrians, my presented ideas assumes that the Regency Sourcebook was written by Regency propagandists. The Regency thinks everything is sweetness and light between them and the Darrians, but in reality the Darrians are very anxious about their situation.

Another motivating factor for my setup is that I wanted the Darrians and Sword Worlders to not only work together, but I want it to be cooperative. Granted that may be asking too much, but I still think that if they both believe that the other one is their only real means for survival, they will learn to work together.

As for other paths, I can easily see a scenario where the Darrians are the last interstellar state remaining in the Spinward Marches as everyone else descends into chaos. That would be a very exciting setup.

But that isn't the scenario MJD has described so far, and I was trying to stay in line with what I understand of his description. Also, keep in mind that even if the Consulate and the Regency completely disolve, there will be immediate (like literally the next day) successors who will form to fill the void and protect themselves.

As for the Sword Worlders going on an expansionistic frenzy, I highly doubt that. They are just fighting for survival and would have to spend almost all of their initial energy reconnecting after the Regency falls apart. With all of the Denebians on the annexed worlds, they will likely have to spend a noticable amount of time reconquering, then rebuilding their own planets.

I am not saying that the Sword Worlds could never conquer the Darrians. I am saying there is almost no chance to see it happen during the 1200-1250 time period.

 

[Cymew]

Originally posted by daryen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cymew:
Has the consulate ceased to exist? When, how? Is Dave Nielsen responsible? I'm starting to understand why he isn't that popular...

Skipping the DN issue, yes, the Regency Sourcebook shows a Zhodani Consulate that is no longer able to govern.

While the Regency Sourcebook does refer to Consulate in the present tense and gives a standard, historical description to the Consulate, the book describes something quite different.

It describes a government that does not honor its treaties, does not respond to communications, has internal battles and cannot control its citizens.

As for how, it is fundamentally the Empress Wave. The Wave does something fundamental to psions, which directly causes the fabric of Zhodani society to fail. More detail was never given. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok it sure doesn't look good for the Zho's then.

What is this Empress Wave thingie? Is it a psionically active strain of Virus? It's getting sillier by the minute that idea about a virus...

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Cymew:
What is this Empress Wave thingie? Is it a psionically active strain of Virus? It's getting sillier by the minute that idea about a virus...

The Empress Wave has nothing to do with the virus.

It is a wave of psionic energy travelling from core-ish moving out at the speed of light. When the wave passes a world, it causes disturbing things to happen. Non-psions seem to suffer from dreams or hallucinations; psions can be severely affected.

The best description (which is quite sparse) is in the Regency Sourcebook.