defensive options

[TheDS]

In combat, you cannot always be sure to have your power supply. Getting a higher-tech p/s may not be possible, and since it's smaller and MORE vulnerable to damage, might not be desired. So haqving alternate sources of energy is a good idea.

My first thought is to put a cannon near the docking port. Perhaps we'll need several cannons to cover several ports. Why? Generally, when you surrender, you have to shut your power plant down, or at least run it on minimum, otherwise the other guy will blast you until your plant goes off line. Don't want any surprise lasers or meson guns popping up, do we? So since a gun uses CPR, we put a good 90mm gun in a strategic location. The end of the barrel will be flush with the hull, so that it looks like any other water hose hookup or waste discharge.

Enemy ship gets into position to dock and pick up the cargo, you fire your cannon and the enemy ship, if not gone, is going to be seriously hurt. Really, CPR guns are the most effective way to impart damage to an enemy vehicle, and they can penetrate just about any armor as well: you get a big hole going all the way through, and now the bad guy has to worry about multiple breeches.

Just don't miss. You don't want a spiteful pirate vaporizing you with his last breath.

Ok, so let's assume the word gets out about this little trick; it inevitably will, and secrecy was your best weapon. They will find a way to circumvent this. or maybe it will get outlawed, because inspection cutters don't want pirates doing this themselves.

So we plant bombs in the cargo. Go ahead, take what you want, just don't hurt us. Meanwhile, they are command detonated, or in case the enemy ship is shielded against that, we've set the timers to 3 hours, by which time you'll be plenty far away from us, and when the bombs go off, well, we're out our cargo, but so are you. Among other things.

Nukes would be nice, except for those pesky laws against them, and with how easy they are to detect, so we'll have to stick with chemical bombs.

Yes, the bad guys are going to eventually figure this out too, but they are going to have to FIND ALL the bombs and disable them all, and that is going to take them some time. They have to spend it docked to your ship. Meanwhile, the patrols are closing in. Time is critical. They can't afford to waste any, so they will not bother you once they know you've booby-trapped what they want.

Bombs work well to prevent theft of the ship too. Hide it somewhere important, so it will disable the ship (you will want it back some day, and maybe you're stuck onboard), and it's got to be reset every couple days with the right password. We'll tie that to biorhythme too, so only a living officer can reset it.

No matter what cool stuff you come up with, some one will come up with a way to defeat it. The goal is to make it so costly in terms of time or money as to make it not worth the effort. As was said, piracy pays only as long as the goods can be sold for more than it cost to get them. if it costs too much, it's not worth it.

I would have to assume that at least SOME of these ideas are in place, and probably far more. So somehow, piracy still is out there, and still pays now and then. It can't be all that common, though. The more powerful your pirate ship is, the less room you have for the stuff you want to steal. Piracy is usually done in port, where there's less pirate money at stake.

 

[aramis]

No argument that any measure can be compromised. The question is "Is it worth the extra costs/effort do to so?"

The question list:
Will there be piracy? Yes. Sooner or later some Ja***ss will take and hustle some poor sod at some form of weapon-point.
Will Pirates attack routine shipping? If they can get away with it.
Will there be pirate rings worth arming merchantmen over?answers vary extensively by TU... Lets work with "under the right circumstances, pirate bands will occur."
Will Pirate Bands engage in an arms race with merchantmen? Only while the cost of the armament is less than the expected lifetime losses per ship to piracy. Note that that would include maintenance costs, permits, etc, not just the cost of the weapon proper.
Will Q-ships exist? Depends upon how you define a Q-Ship... if it is merely an "Anti-ppiracy warship designed to look like a freighter" then probably. If it is merely "A freighter designed to be combat capable", again, yes. If you instead mean "A custom design vessel designed to pass itself off as a freighter and lure pirates in" it will only exist if pirates routinely take high value cargos from a "repeat clientelle of victims" at which point they become more than "unfortunate incidents"...

Mind you, my favorite system is MT, and so adding non-space-combat weapons is a plausible design decision. (as it is with TNE and T4 as well... but not exactly under CT2/5 nor T20. GT it is technically doable, but might involve detailed work in GV...). And MT also has densitometers, ans so a Q-ship can be detected at range BEFORE she "Pops" to red mode.

Also, remember that designed Q-ships will operate in potentially different roles by design type:
The Decoy: A hardened design intended simply to tie the pirates long enough that other ships can take them. Not terriffically viable without high armor and extensive defenses, and tractors. Too bad no traveller ruleset has detailed tractor rules, since tractors are mentioned in at least one design sequence. (ISTR Bk 5 mentions them... but I can't find my Bk5 right now to check.)
The "Knifer": Look like a target, act like a target, and when they get close, BLAZE them with close range weapons galore.
The Patroler: Superficially looks like a freighter. Intended to be detected once in close enough to be at decision to commit. If not detected, strong enough to take out any typical pirate threat.
The "Hidden Gun": best under TNE, where small mesons can be stacked... and density is similar to cargo loads... Waits for pirate to commit... then kills them. HARD. small Spinals can be amazing things under TNE/BL.
The Hidden Aegis Escort: Looks like a frieghter till commit, then provides area defenses to several other freighters and q-ships.
The Upgunned Merchant: looks like a normal merchant, but has hidden guns extra...like a 50 ton bay on a Type R... pen the front and BOOM... still primarily a merchant, but it carries a really impressive gun.

A Q-ship's main goal is to make the "kill" too much cost (men, ammo, time, and risk of damage), for the goods gained.

A pirate's main goal is to get goods for less than the cost of purchase, after counting salaries, and sell them or use them... and make a profit.


Ad ports are seldom likely places to pirate... because they are watched for that... IMTU, typical pirates match outbounds, having done lots of legwork, and snag you while you're outbound, but too close to jump. The more desperate wait for alikely targt at the 100diam limit, then match up inbound, reducing the chances of a target intercept, but making a risk-jump to escape far less likely.

Now, some ports are the hell holes.. and your ship isn't safe on the ground... but that alone is enough (IMO) for an Amber Zone rating.

 

[Theophilus]

Of course, the Herd mentality also applies.

There are hundred's or thousands of merchants, verses only dozens of pirates. And most systems are safe from pirates, except maybe along the vargr frontier.

The chances of meeting a pirate is very small, and since it may never happen in my lifetime how "safe" do I really need to be.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Piracy will tend to vary depending on the value and perceived lack of threat your ship provides. If you aren't armed then you better hope your crew are all Ex-Marines and when the Pirates close to board you board them. (Opposed Boarding Actions can get really nasty and hairy.) My favorite opposed boarding action was in "The Planet Pirate" series by Anne McCafferty and Elizabeth Moon. Using purpose built armored vehicles in the corridors.

Otherwise the "it may never happen in your lifetime" is almost correct. It is only likely to happen once in your lifetime.

 

[aramis]

Correction, Bhoins. It's only likely to happen to YOU once in your lifetime. It may happen to your buddy, too.

And then only if you operate in fairly typical areas.

On the Vargr border, it's much more likely to have a piratical corsair band "Take an Interest In You", scan for wepons, and decide to wave off. Heck, many pirates will wave off at even slight resistance... ship damage is seldom worth it from a pirate's viewpoint.

Likewise, "Gentlemen Pirates" are far more likely to last for a while... since they soon develop a reputation for "You surrender, I take only a small part of your cargo.... but lasting long enouugh for word to get around is the problem.

 

[BetterThanLife]

I stand corrected.

You don't have to fight the pirate off completely you just have to delay him long enough for help to arrive, or long enough and you staying intact enough to escape to jump space. Given typical travel times, if there is help in the system, a Squadron can get from planetary orbit to anywhere within 100D of the planet in two-four hours. SDBs are about the same. And that is if they want to not just do a high speed pass. It also assumes you aren't accellerating towards the 100D limit. Depending on which version of Traveller rules you are using that isn't very long. In T20 it is 2-3 Strategic scale combat rounds. As I recall in most other versions of Traveller combat rounds are equally long. While detecting individual ships just flying around may be tough weapons fire and/or missile explosions are likely to draw attention. How fast can you transfer cargo between two ships? How fast in space? (Without all the neat stuff a port usually has available.) What if you are in a vaccuum and or Zero-G. (Do you really want to dock your Pirate ship to a Merchant that has been resisting? Send over the ship's boat not the real ship.

How fast can you disable a ship, maneuver to board and board it? How fast can you subdue any remaining resistance aboard the prize? Now how fast can you get the drives back online so you can jump the prize? Resistance will ruin your week if you are a Pirate. You might as well just blast anyone that decides to resist and run. (Because those SDBs are going to catch you if you hang around.) Now if there are no fighters or SDBs in the system (or they are and stay bought) then that is a different matter. Can you disable the drives, board remove anything you want, or perform enough repairs to get it back to base for repairs and ready for sale. Remember the real prize is the ship not the cargo.

Piracy is not as easy as it seems. Which is why Pirates tend to be desperate types. And since Pirates want the ship and the cargo, (At least if they are greedy.) the crew doesn't normally tend to fare well. Witnesses can be a bitch too. Most locales tend to execute pirates. ANd no matter how fast your ship is if the Navy gets your ship identified its ID will wind up on routine dispatches, at worst, and you can't outrun the Navy Courier system for very long.

So if youare smart you want your Merchant armed enough to keep the Pirates at bay a couple of hours and you want to cause some damage. You may not survive but you are more likely to survive than just turning yourself, your ship and your crew over to the Pirate's tender mercies. And if you can delay them, in a typical system just a little while then if you don't survive at least you made them pay for it, and if you hold them up long enough then you have succeeded in getting them too.

Originally posted by Aramis:
Correction, Bhoins. It's only likely to happen to YOU once in your lifetime. It may happen to your buddy, too.

And then only if you operate in fairly typical areas.

On the Vargr border, it's much more likely to have a piratical corsair band "Take an Interest In You", scan for wepons, and decide to wave off. Heck, many pirates will wave off at even slight resistance... ship damage is seldom worth it from a pirate's viewpoint.

Likewise, "Gentlemen Pirates" are far more likely to last for a while... since they soon develop a reputation for "You surrender, I take only a small part of your cargo.... but lasting long enouugh for word to get around is the problem.

 

[aramis]

In most cases, one or two good hits can make the raid worthless... a PP or JDrive hit costs more than the value of the cargo most raiders can carry. (unless the cargo is REALLY good stuff...)

Likewise, the threat of damaging a ship with a decent hit can be more than the value of the cargo, as well... let alone the merchant's profit margin. (assumptions baed upon Bk7 rates... Bk2 makes certain cargos far more worthy.)

At an average of KCr5 per ton, and MCr cost per hit (average) for PP of 5.6MCr to repair... (use Bk2 combat, it's easier to calc the costs of) JDrive is MCr7 per hit, and MD is MCr2.8 per hit. Guns can be from MCr0.35 to MCr 3.5 depending upont turret type...

So, if you are likely to take significant hits, it ain't worth it.

Bk5 makes hits somewhat less likely, but raises the cost of those hits to repair..

 

[belter]

My compliments on a thourough discussion of the subject.

I have one more anti-pirate weapon idea. A robot designed to leave the merchant's cargo bay and detonate against the pirate vessels' hull during docking. Perhaps the robot can target a specific portion of the pirate vessel such as engineering or the airlock. No airlock, you're looking at trying to board in vacc suits. Might as well give a hand salute and fly away.

 

[BetterThanLife]

If you are boarding my ship you are going to be in Vacc Suits anyway. First thing to do in combat is to evacuate the air. (If I am not carrying passengers I bleed off the air on the way to orbit, it is also the first thing I do upon leaving jumpspace. Can't have explosive decompression if there is no air. It also bites to try to board a vessel one person at a time unless you realize you are boarding an airless vessel ahead of time. You can't force all the doors open and walk through. Though it might be a nice thought to override your airlock so they are both open then open both of mine and watch explosive decompression go to work.

If you are only coming across one or two at a time you are easy pickings through the normal locks.

Or mate up the cargo holds and force mine open.

BTW most people would board a potentially hostile vessel in Vacc Suits. (Gas is almost as bad as Vaccuum, in some cases even worse.)

Originally posted by belter:
My compliments on a thourough discussion of the subject.

I have one more anti-pirate weapon idea. A robot designed to leave the merchant's cargo bay and detonate against the pirate vessels' hull during docking. Perhaps the robot can target a specific portion of the pirate vessel such as engineering or the airlock. No airlock, you're looking at trying to board in vacc suits. Might as well give a hand salute and fly away.

 

[belter]

Your point regarding vacc suits is taken.

What about the possibility of having a robot with explosives attach itself to your ship as it maneuvers up close for boarding? Is this a deterent, something you have countermeasures for, or something you just don't worry about?

 

[BetterThanLife]

If I were a pirate, and through the years I have been on both sides of this operation, you do not, under any circumstances, dock your ship to a ship you are about to board. (You also don't do this for a customs inspection or in any other bording circumstances that you are boarding an unknown or potentially hostile ship. You use a small craft. If you are going to be conducting boarding operations on a semi-regular basis it would be best if you invested in a Ship's boat. (Mostly because it is 6G Maneuver and still has some useful volume.) If you dock with the ship you are going to board and it has a working weapon you are in trouble. If it decides to ram you are in trouble. And if there are Marines over there you don't want them boarding you. You send a small (expendable?) craft over while you maintain distance and cover your small craft. Besides if they decide to blow their fusion plant you want some distance.

It also allows you to run if the Navy shows up. (A Ship's Boat can probably catch up. But if waiting for it lets them overtake you and you can escape to jump without waiting for it then leave it. If I were running the Customs vessel or the Pirate vessel that small robot might be able to get the small craft but not the ship. Under those circumstances I do guarantee I will just fire into you until you are gone or the Navy chases me off, just to serve as a warning to others.

(Besides you ticked me off and cost me money.

)

That of course assumes I don't detect your robot and shoot it first.

Originally posted by belter:
Your point regarding vacc suits is taken.

What about the possibility of having a robot with explosives attach itself to your ship as it maneuvers up close for boarding? Is this a deterent, something you have countermeasures for, or something you just don't worry about?

 

[belter]

Ok, forget the stupid robots!

Wait, maybe a suicide 'bot that covertly attaches to your ship's boat and detonates when it returns to your vessel. Then I board your crippled ship and plunder my goods back along with yours. Call me a pirate who preys upon pirates?