Do GM's Play?

[Supplement Four]

It is said that some people are GMs and some people are players, and there is little overlap between the two.

I'm living proof of that. Since I've been introduced to role playing (back when I was a wee-high sophomore in high school), I've played very little throughout the decades. The grand, overwhelming, 90%-or-more, of the time since, I've been the GM.

I notice, when I don't play (when I don't GM), my players don't play. They don't seek out other GMs (one or two do, but most of the people I play with only play with me).

And, I'll admit, I like playing, but I don't dream about it. I do dream about GMing--creating the world, figuring out rules, deciding how I'm going to implement certain aspects of the story. I get off to that stuff.

I think my players feel the opposite. They thank the rpg gawds that I like to GM so that they don't have to.

I'm curious about your gaming experience. Do you know GMs, like me, who hardly ever play? Or, is it your experience that the GM duties fly around to different people, with previous GMs playing?

 

[aramis]

I'm a "Mostly GM"... I've enjoyed playing over the years, but only with the right GM's.

I enjoy most especially shared worlds where I am both a player and a GM. Done this with only two systems: Ars Magica and MegaTraveller.

I've played without GMing in 6 adventures plus 4 campaigns in the last 15 years. Cid's Cyberpunk game. 2 Star Wars adventures with Steve #1. 6 sessions of a Traveller campaign with Steve #2. 7 sessions of a Buffy campaign with Sean. One session of someone else running WFRP. One session of Erik running Pendragon (I was the guest NPC...) A couple one-shot's with Eagor. A single session with Ricker, playing Vampire... ISTR I bought the farm in that session, due to other players ineptitude (major botch).

On the other hand, my group at one point was entirely people who GM'd for others: Mark, Mike, Steve #1, Steve #3, Erik, Eagor, Rich. Ricker was interested and invited, but his work schedule prohibited.

In my current group, Dave, Steve (#1), Peter, Jerry, Erik and I all GM from time to time for others; I'm GMing currently. Dave prefers to play, Steve is running one and playing in another, Jerry just ended one, Erik had to drop due to work, but has run a group most of the time since he moved out of his folks place... My wife is an Admin/BoD Member on one of the approved Pern Weyrs... so yes, she is a form of GM, too; she is also a player in the current group.

So yes, I do know some who are "switch hitters"...

I will say this: Running a game for experienced and competent GM's is VERY different than running for newbs. I have to be able to flex far more, and let them add to the plot lines, but, by the same token, I don't have to work them together, I just have to get them together, so that their background tie-ins kick in. I've only rejected a few characters from these guys... and not because they were abusive to the setting nor system, but because they simply did not fit in with the rest of the concepts for the party. And I don't get arguments over it, either.

 

[Golan2072]

I both play and GM, though I do far more of the latter than the former for two reasons: fisrt, I'm quite experienced in it; and second, I love the world-building aspects of it.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Currently I am running Traveller and playing in Dungeons & Dragons and Gurps/delta green games. Delta Green looks like it will be wrapping up soon so it looks like Vampire will take its place (Morgan wants to run SLA industries. No thanks.) 4 of our group can take on GM duties, so I play more than run. Next game I run will be D&D 4.

 

[Icosahedron]

I'm not sure which way to vote. I've played and GMed. Back when I first started out with D&D, Runequest and Traveller, our group took turns at GMing. I enjoyed playing, but I preferred GMing (must be a power thing) but then I spent ten years in a player vacuum, during which time I developed MTU solo, and of late I've only had time for the one game I GM. I enjoy playing sometimes, and it can be a relief not to have to plan everything out, just react to whatever you find, but there is always a little frustration along the lines of: 'If this were my game, I'd have allowed this, or not allowed that...'

 

[Valarian]

Thankfully, I had a good roleplaying group when younger and we rotated the GMing duty. Now, I mostly game online (using Fantasy Grounds) due to the old group being scattered and family commitments. I GM one night a week and play one night a week, although there was a period where I was just GMing. Currently running various games (short scenarios using various game systems), and playing in a couple of Savage Worlds games.

 

[jawillroy]

I've played, but mostly years and years ago. Since then I've only GeeEmmed, and much of that has been solitaire universe building. I don't actually know that many realspace travellers, and not so many of them are into the kind of Proto-Traveller world I'm into building.

Oh, and scheduling's a bear, what with work, band, and nongamer wife.

 

[Plankowner]

When I first started, I was part of a big group that typically had 3-4 games each weekend going on, so you could GM AND play.

After high school, I found that there were a lot of people willing to play (well, maybe not a LOT) but no one who wanted to GM, so I sort of fell into it and now, with my newly formed group (me, my kids and a couple of friends), I am the GM. If I want them to play Traveller, I have to GM. If I wanted to play hack-n-slash D&D, one of them could DM.

There idea of a good gaming session is something like Nintendo's Super Smash Brothers. I like STORIES.

When we actually start playing in June, we will see if I can entice them over to ROLEplaying instead of ROLLplaying.

We shall see.

 

[robject]

We make an effort to let everyone have a go at being referee who wants to see a certain set of rules played.

 

[kafka47]

I have always called GM'ing... "the thankless task but someone has got to do it and it might as well be me." It is a burden, as Toronto never has been a vast gaming centre and I find myself inadvertly in the role of an organizer of things (perhaps due to my extrovert personality). I have gamed as a player but usually it is in conventions. I would like to take breaks but often I have found GMs make lousy players (having been told off on more than one occasion when I complain about pacing).

Having said that I think the best thing is balance especially good if there are two different game systems to alternate as it is a good way to recharge the batteries as a GM and gives you a different perspective as a player.

 

[sirpedro]

In the years I've been playing, it all depended on who wanted to GM a particular game. A few years ago one of our players wanted to run GURPS Traveller, so he did, prior to that somebody wanted to run Vampire. I love roleplaying regardless of the system, but if I get an idea for a particular adventure that would work best in a specific system I'll put on my GM cap, and until recently have had hat hair.

 

[Supplement Four]

There idea of a good gaming session is something like Nintendo's Super Smash Brothers. I like STORIES.

When we actually start playing in June, we will see if I can entice them over to ROLEplaying instead of ROLLplaying.

We shall see.

Interesting...I'm reading this supplement for another game, and there is a section about GMing (actually, the whole book is about the "art" of GMing). Usually, these books just provide the basics. We've all read it before--yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, this one I'm looking at is actually pretty good (it's for Millennium's End), and one of the topics it covers is new gamers vs. seasoned gamers.

What it says is this: Gamers new to role playing typically are interested in action. That's what they want. They want to fight! They want knife stabs and gunshots. Or, they want magic flying around and sword swinging. They're attracted to action.

Seasoned gamers like a little bit of action too, but it is only the more mature gamer who begins to respect role playing and desire the subtle rewards that playing a character correctly can bring to a game.

Newbie players want to explore every room, search every drawer, and kill everything they find.

Seasoned gamers want to do what they have to do, but they can get as much out of sneaking through the entire complex without killing a soul as the newbie's will wiping everybody out.

As newbie players become seasoned players (the books says), action will be less important to them as they learn to appreciate the finer points of role playing.





Well, I nearly fell over when I read this. You see, there's a guy at work that's been interested in playing with us. He's never role played before, but he's big into computer gaming. He's also played a lot of Magic The Gathering Tourneys (but don't hold that against him--I think he'd be a good role player if he gave it a shot).

Well, as I'm starting up my Bond game, I invited him to play. I described it, "It's going to be fantastic. We'll have intrigue. You don't know who to trust. There will be some action, but that will be rough and dirty--gritty and more realistic than what you've seen in previous Bond movies. Think more Tom Clancy or Jason Bourne. And, the game will center around a mystery. It's going to be an exceptional game--I'm sure of it. It'll deliver so much more than just being able to see that bugbear at the end of the hall with your only choice being to go swing your sword at it to hack it to death. Are you in?"

And, I was kinda taken aback by his answer. "Naw, to be honest, the bugbear thing sounds so much more fun."

Wow.

Then, I read that section last night, and I realized: He's a newbie gamer, and I'm trying to wrangle him together with two old grizzled vets who've been playing for five decades between them.

They're two different types of player, and they're both looking for different things in a game.

A good GM discovers what his players are interested in (as the ME supplement says) and plays to those interests. Newer gamers want more action than seasoned gamers. Newer gamers get lost in the story--or they just don't care about the story--they just want to kill things.

And, seasoned gamers find the thrill in actually living the tale being told through the eyes of the fictional character they've made up.

I saw this dichotomy in my friend at work and my long time gaming group.

It's a good lesson for GMs to realize.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Thankless Task? We fight over who gets to GM. I'm running Traveller but also want to run Pendragon and Conan, and Slaine, and Starship Troopers and D&D, Morgan wants to run Sla Industries and Vampire, and D&D and Black Company, Donnacha wants to run Merp/Rolemaster, John wants to run a fantasy version of spycraft... the list goes on. Our circle of friends is playing about 5 games a week, the most anyone is in is 3/week, thats about the limit.

 

[pendragonman]

The last decade or so I have fallen into the side of mostly GMing. It is really difficult to find someone who wants to GM after they have had all that "training" by console, computer, and MMORPGs.

 

[aramis]

I've found three types of newbie gamers:

There ARE the action oriented crowd. They want to kill Kill KILL!!!! Some never outgrow the need for mayhem... but become more creative in it. It's all about the hack factor.

There are story driven newbs. Not so common. As compared to more "mature" story-driven gamers, they need simple, obvious plots to follow. When you find one, often they are spouses of other gamers, who are trying it out. They will often happily spend an hour on shopping trips, haggling over prices.

The third are the "Board Game Sans Board" crowd. They want clear objectives as well, but don't have a specific need for kill nor for story, so long as they know what they are supposed to achieve... often, they also have trouble with the concept of dialogue. "I use blather to confuse him to our aid," being a typical dialogue. They NEED "Mr. Johnson" or the CO to tell them what the mission is. SOme of the more enjoyable newb games I've run have grown out of this crowd... once they have the goal in mind, their characters will pursue the goal with rabid abandon.

And then, every so often, Type #4 comes along: the PlotMonger... this is the guy who just naturally tries to be Mr. Johnson to the rest of the party, who can't help instigating side plots, is constantly giving the GM new ideas, and generally, if given time, becomes a rather good Harlequin and/or GM.

 

[Jame]

Everyone who's GMed in my group has also played. At least in my group; they may have other groups that I'm not part of.

 

[Gallowglacht]

In my experience, Aramis' view on new players is more accurate than S4's. Maybe we were lucky but our newbies rock...

 

[casquilho]

I have known both kinds of people. I know some who play as much as they GM and I know some who only GM.

I think this has as much to do with the group as it does with the person. If a group only has one person who likes to Gm, the odds are that person will mostly GM. But if the group has a few folks who like to GM, then the role of GM is passed around and the other "GMs" get opportunities to play.

Daniel

 

[Golan2072]

There are story driven newbs. Not so common. As compared to more "mature" story-driven gamers, they need simple, obvious plots to follow. When you find one, often they are spouses of other gamers, who are trying it out. They will often happily spend an hour on shopping trips, haggling over prices.

My girlfriend started out similarly to this, though she was very good at playing in-character from the very start; the thing she really enjoyed early on was exploring the various interesting NPCs I put in her way and the complex relationships between them. She had no problem following typical plot hooks; her real problem was with the rules, especially combat rules - she had some kind of a phobia of formulae and tables (too many extra-difficult differential and integral calculus courses at college could cause this). Once she was over that phobia she did grasp the rules well and started to enjoy action scenes, but rules and stats aren't her strong side or her preferred side of a game. She could spend days inventing a character, his/her personality and past and how she'd play him/her, but she doesn't quite like spending time in chargen (I usually do this together with her, generating the stats for her according to how she answers a series of questions about the character. So far we've tried Shadowrun and D&D; I think she'll love CT as it is rules-light and pretty realistic, and she's into reading sci-fi books.

She didn't get into haggling at all, though.

The interesting thing is that her favorite computer games are old action ones such as Commander keen or Doom (1 or 2); strangely she's less into shooting stuff in an RPG than in a computer game (unlike most new players I know who love action computer games).

The third are the "Board Game Sans Board" crowd. They want clear objectives as well, but don't have a specific need for kill nor for story, so long as they know what they are supposed to achieve... often, they also have trouble with the concept of dialogue. "I use blather to confuse him to our aid," being a typical dialogue. They NEED "Mr. Johnson" or the CO to tell them what the mission is. SOme of the more enjoyable newb games I've run have grown out of this crowd... once they have the goal in mind, their characters will pursue the goal with rabid abandon.

This is more or less how I've started out myself - it was an outgrowth of games such as Talisman. So I read the rules very carefully and give them much attention early on, enjoying the "game" side of things more than action or plot (and enjoying the cool ability to influence the world around me unlike what you have in books/TV/movies). Later on I became far more interested in the plot and characters than before, but I still enjoy gearheading.

 

[aramis]

I started as a hack-n-slasher, rapidly became a plotmonger...

But back in Jr High, Andrew, Myself and Aaron all took our turns behind the shield with D&D/AD&D.

In High School, I got into Star Frontiers, then rapidly switched to Traveller. I took over the Traveller game when the Ref graduated. I then grew into a gearhead. I was a gearhead most of the way through HS and college, and not just for traveller. I do know one guy who came to RPGs via gearheading in Car Wars...

Now, I tend to have mostly but not quite outgrown serious gearheading (I've found that 90% of FF&S is wasted space and detail... Bk2 or HG lack sufficient options, but are the right level of detail), and Car Wars still appeals.

My wife, I'm not certain how her start was, as we started to associate because I was a GM and she was looking for a game, but she is still happy to spend an hour on shoppie-store in character. She also gripes mercilessly when there isn't enough action, when clear roles are usurped, or when Steve has been too humor focused.