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Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

I said I had doubts, not that the math was wrong. The doubts included the appropriateness of the analysis, the scope of the analysis, and the conclusions. But, that said, yes, the math was right. I erred in my statement in not making that clear.

And yes, some serious changes occurred from internal playtest without an iteration to the open group; but by no means all. And given the time spent on each iteration we did get, I suspect that the release date was at least part of why...plus the massive amount of effort needed to wade thru the forum posts to get the feedback in a useable form. Gareth made it pretty clear that we could and should email him with specifics -but if one expected making only forums posts to be an effective venue for input, I can see why it felt deafened.

Possibly it was an ill advised attempt to include fan input -but I'm of the opinion that the very first version we got would have been most of what was published without the playtest; and I'm equally sure that it would have been a much inferior product as a result.

In any case, glad to hear from you. Hows things in the Great White* Western North ?



*snow.
 
It should have been banned from the open forums. Seriously. The open forums being used for playtest were a huge part of the problem.
 
Odd. I would have said that CT had no flavor at all. It was full of great stuff. But bland as a month-old saltine cracker. I think MGT has far more flavor. The Spinward Marches Supplement shows that in great amount. I have the CT supplement and it has one paragraph on every subsector. Maybe one line on a couple planets here and there. The MGT Spinward supplement has pages and pages of background info, threats, coming events, and adventure ideas.

Lets all remember that the Spinward Marches supplement was written by MJD, a long time Traveller author and Classic Traveller fanatic. No wonder it's been well recieved.

Let me just say I am not a raving MJD fanboy, I have criticised some of his work in the past, so this reply is not coming from any point of bias. You have to give credit where it's due.

This is the lesson for mongoose, use seasoned Traveller authors for the products and newer authors that are steeped in the Traveller traditions and assumptions and you'll get a good product.
 
Lets all remember that the Spinward Marches supplement was written by MJD, a long time Traveller author and Classic Traveller fanatic.
I would not call MJD a "Classic Traveller fanatic", because he has written ve-
ry good material for almost all of the Traveller versions in print and is working
on his own percentile system science fiction roleplaying game. :)

Anyhow, he really produces excellent stuff, I especially liked his adventures
One Crowded Hour and Type S, the only commercial Traveller adventures I
used in my campaign almost without changes. And I am very much looking
forward to his contributions to Mongoose's Central Supply Catalogue.

Unfortunately authors who can write as good as MJD and know Traveller ve-
ry well seem to be somewhat rare, and I really hope that Mongoose manages
to convince as many as possible of them to contribute to their Traveller ver-
sion - it would make it much easier to ignore all the little problems (art, proof-
reading, etc.) when the content is excellent, I think.
 
Anyhow, he really produces excellent stuff, I especially liked his adventures
One Crowded Hour and Type S, the only commercial Traveller adventures I
used in my campaign almost without changes. And I am very much looking
forward to his contributions to Mongoose's Central Supply Catalogue.

He also wrote Homecoming, the adventure my players are going through right now and being recounted in my actual play thread (see sig). The players are having a great time!
 
I wouldn't exactly call your judging books by the art within them "shallow". There's a link between a book's worth and its art. After all, if the publisher couldn't be bothered to take care of the art, what else in the book did they also fail to care about?

A bad piece of art not only introduces a jarring element into a book. It also takes up space that could have been used for something worthwhile.
Wow, I couldn't agree with you more. There are a handful of books that I own that I don't pick up unless I have to, because the art is cringe-worthy. And then there are other books (2300AD!!!) that have art that is so wonderful, I look at them just because. If only all rpg books could have art as good as that...
 
By that standard the dictionary sucks most novels suck and all the early CT books suck because all are lacking in art or what I would call good art.

Judging a game system by the fluff art in the book is not only shallow it is silly and in MgTs case similar to saying a BMW3 series sucks because it doesn't have a mural painted across the hood.
 
I would not call MJD a "Classic Traveller fanatic", because he has written very good material for almost all of the Traveller versions in print...


Rust,

He has written very good material for several versions of Traveller. He also wrote Behind the Claw and Star Mercs for G:Traveller.

The point to keep in here mind is that we must judge Traveller materials solely on their own merit. A book isn't automatically good or bad because of who the author is, a book isn't automatically good or bad because to the art or lack of art in it, and a book isn't automatically good or bad because of which gaming company published it.

Judge materials on solely their own merit and not only on some alleged pedigree.


Regards,
Bill
 
By that standard the dictionary sucks most novels suck and all the early CT books suck because all are lacking in art or what I would call good art. Judging a game system by the fluff art in the book is not only shallow it is silly and in MgTs case similar to saying a BMW3 series sucks because it doesn't have a mural painted across the hood.


Jamus,

Spinwardpirate's enthusiastic agreement with my comments somewhat obscured the point I was trying to make.

Art is only part of the equation when judging gaming materials. As part of that equation, art can either add, subtract, or remain neutral. Judging a book solely on the art within it is misguided and judging a book while ignoring the art within is also misguided.

There have been good books with no art, the First Three LBBs, and there have been good books with bad art, G:Humaniti, but art is always part of the equation. A book must be very good in other areas in order to "make up for" bad art.

May I also suggest that the art associated with a BMW3 is found in it's styling and design? A mural across the hood isn't entirely necessary. ;)


Regards,
Bill
 
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Judge materials on solely their own merit and not only on some alleged pedigree.
I agree where gaming companies are concerned, but I have to admit that I
have some favourite authors (the Keith brothers, David Pulver, MJD ...) who-
se style I like so much that I would probably not be able to use objective cri-
teria instead of my personal taste when judging their works, and I think this
could also be true for artists (although I have no favourite ones).
 
Sadly, the only way I've seen that people knew they were being listened to was dialoging with the author.

I've seen it taken to extremes, too. I was part of the exhaustive (and often exhausting) rules review and playtest effort that shaped the "Doomsday Edition" of Star Fleet Battles (so called because their estimates of a release date were "sometime after doomsday"). Every piece of feedback, editing for spelling or grammar, or actual suggested rules change was captured (this was on the old GEnie BBS, where GDW and DGP also had a presence in the MT days), sorted to its appropriate rules section (a case for the rigorous SPI Numbering System they use), and at least acknowledged. Resolution might be announced if further work was needed, but you always knew they had seen your feedback. That was also a process of many months. MANY months. It was, however, very public at nearly every step, and very educational for that reason.

I eventually left that group behind for a variety of reasons, one of which is apparent (if not obvious) in the finished products I contributed to. The lesson I took from that is to be very careful about crossing the line from playtester to contributor without a full understanding of the relationship you are entering. I mention this because some of the comments I've seen connected to the MGT playtest by people here indicates, to me at least, that they *really* wanted to cross that line.
 
Hi,

I just wanted to check reactions on Mongoose Traveller. I browsed the book at Barnes & Noble and it just didn't excite me.

I feel the same way about MGT that I felt about the first Traveller recompilation (from the LBBs into the more standard size book), it somehow feels like less than what I already own.

My reaction to the MGT $40 price tag was to turn around and buy the Classic Traveller CD from FFE. Despite having 90% of the material on the cd, it just felt like a better bargan for my $40.

Am I missing something, is there something there in MGT to get excited about or is it just a rehash with a higher than we've ever seen price tag?

Thanks
Have you folks considered checking Amazon.com or eBay for these tomes?

You can buy MgT core book for $20 + $4 shipping under the "Used & New" link right now.

I search "Traveller" on eBay every once in a while, and scored the Core book PLUS Mercenary for $9.15 plus $6.95 shipping, or a grand total of $26.10 for BOTH books.

Like most posters here, I was mainly curious, but I find these books "suck" a LOT less when you get them for $16 and $10 respectively ;-)

Cheers,
 
By that standard the dictionary sucks most novels suck and all the early CT books suck because all are lacking in art or what I would call good art.

Judging a game system by the fluff art in the book is not only shallow it is silly and in MgTs case similar to saying a BMW3 series sucks because it doesn't have a mural painted across the hood.

Just for the record BMW3 Series really do suck, I'm a Mercedes driver myself :)

Also MJD is a Classic Traveller fanatic by his own Admission, now if I only I could remember where I read that.
 
No.

On March 23rd I sent in a defective copy of High Guard along with a letter explaining the problem, and today I recieved a copy of High Guard and Scouts.

Hooray for Mongoose for making good on a promise! I didn't expect to see anything for 4-6 weeks, but I got back the books in about a week!

Just in time for Saturday's game.

I like the system, I like the value, and I'm having a lot of fun running a Traveller game. I'm psyched to dig into Scouts. We'll see how that goes.
 
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I just sent all my original Traveller material to GDW so they can send me copies without errata and typos. I wonder how long until I get them back?
 
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