Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

[Darkhstarr]

I took a break last weekend at Nuke-con after running my Traveller game & play Red Dragon Inn 1&2 to actually read through the Mongoose Traveller corebook. Much better then my first read, especially the chargen. Definitely the book T4 should have been.
Though I admit still I'm glad I bought with a discount coupon.

With MegaTraveller (& TNE to a certain extent), it was the assassination of Strephon & the breakup/collapse of the Imperium I disliked more the ruleset. It seemed the time period was beset by games set in post-collapse, post holocaust, post-nuclear war genera no matter what the genre.

Though with TNE, I did have problems with the rules. But I ran any TNE stuff with CT rules. Much the same way I through most of the rules for Space 1889.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Mongtrav has some very workable, quick and dirty playing solutions. Not, however, very satisfying for people with more simulationist tendencies like myself. It was the harder edge and complexity of MT that brought me to Traveller in the first place... I was too young for CT.

In comparison, the whole look and feel of Mgt is just a bit Mickey Mouse. It feels more a Palladium game than it does Traveller. That includes the art, the "Life Event" tables and assumptions about "group" character generation, and the "if you're grappling with a knife you do 1D6 extra damage," etc. etc. Rules are too simplistic and general, and exceptions to the rules are too specific and feel arbitrary.

Nevertheless, I think that there's something to be said for it's simplicity and ease of use. Workable. It is not, in my mind, a definitive version of Traveller. But as Kafka mentioned to me recently, out of the box it's very playable, even for people new to Traveller or RPGing generally.

 

[Supplement Four]

Mongtrav has some very workable, quick and dirty playing solutions. Not, however, very satisfying for people with more simulationist tendencies like myself.

Good point. I think it's a bit "gamey" too.

It was the harder edge and complexity of MT that brought me to Traveller in the first place... I was too young for CT.

Although CT was the first I played, my group always wanted to play D&D. So, back in the early days (around 1982-1984), I dearly loved CT but only played in a few campaigns.

Then, MT came along, and everybody seemed to like it. I embraced it, and played it for years. In fact, MT was my Traveller game of choice for a long, long time.

Then, T4 came along--the first game to pull me from MT. I played a long campaign using it, and I discovered all of its flaws during that game. It was a fun campaign, but the rule system had to go (nothing about TNE or GURPS Traveller interested me).

And then...I picked up my old CT books, reviewed them in all their glory. After having a lot of experience with MT and T4 (and reading a lot of the other Traveller games--I own most of TNE, but never used the rules because they suck), I re-discovered the brilliance of CT.

It's going to take a pretty damn good version of Traveller to beat CT. It is, by far, the best rule set I've seen.

I'm interested in T5, but it's got some big shoes to fill.

Then again, this is the first re-write of Traveller with Marc Miller at the helm. I'm hoping he can pull it off.

Mongoose Traveller certainly didn't.

In comparison, the whole look and feel of Mgt is just a bit Mickey Mouse.

Yes.

Again, good choice of words.

 

[aramis]

Actually, T4 was written by Marc Miller. (The edit and layout was done by IG, and badly screwed...)

T5 materials Marc has leaked to date all look very much more like T4 than anything else, save the ACS bits, which look like "T4 does Bk 2".

MGT goes in a very different direction. it's aimed at a younger D&D/Palladium/WWG raised crowd.

 

[Echo]

Actually, T4 was written by Marc Miller. (The edit and layout was done by IG, and badly screwed...)

T5 materials Marc has leaked to date all look very much more like T4 than anything else, save the ACS bits, which look like "T4 does Bk 2".

T4 was written by loads of people. Marc Miller just headed the team. Lester Smith was mostly in charge of the development and editing, along with Tony Lee. The graphic design, typesetting, layout and graphic design was done by Ken Whitman and Ashe Marler. I can't say about the 5th edition - but this is all conjecture anyway, because it doesn't look like being released anytime soon.

MGT goes in a very different direction. it's aimed at a younger D&D/Palladium/WWG raised crowd.

You mean it appeals to the major majority of gamers? Or just anybody that hasn't already been versed in Traveller for 20+ years?

 

[robject]

T4 was written by loads of people. Marc Miller just headed the team.
...
I can't say about the 5th edition - but this is all conjecture anyway, because it doesn't look like being released anytime soon.
...
You mean [MGT] appeals to the major majority of gamers? Or just anybody that hasn't already been versed in Traveller for 20+ years?

Yes, MGT appeals to gamers in general, even at the expense of some in the Traveller fanbase. That's a win.

T5 is solely Marc's view of Traveller. So you can pin all of the blame on him.

 

[DonM]

T5 is solely Marc's view of Traveller. So you can pin all of the blame on him.

I have it on good authority that some people plan on blaming you and I in addition to him, so good luck on that.

 

[aramis]

I have it on good authority that some people plan on blaming you and I in addition to him, so good luck on that.

Well, the two of you have been acting as his mouthpieces....

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Going thru a bit of a Traveller Renaissance meself these days. In terms of products, I set aside a bit a while back for a product buy, for rainy days.

In the past few weeks I have gotten hands on:

CT Cd-Rom
JTAS Cd-Rom
MGT 760 Patrons
MGT Spinward Marches
MGT Mercenary
DB Game Design's Venture Class Frontier Courier
Comstar/Avenger's : Guns, Gear, Gadgets and Robots of Charted Space

All books are a great read, and for me at least recapture the playability and spirit of CT to a degree, but with a bit more detail bits. The thing I like about the Mercenary book is that it touches on Bases and Ticket breakdown more, and puts these into wieldy game terms. The new Careers are pretty cool, and it has a lot of options covered. There seems to be more of a direct line to what you want to play.

760 Patrons is great for whipping off quick adventures, encounters, and all that. I'm not big on modules or adventure seed type books like this, but its a good reference for showing a small cross section of who populates the Traveller universe. It's also a good resource for character background ideas with some custom tweaking.

The Spinward Marches book is flat out great. Probably Martin's best. For something you'd expect to be "mappy" its actually quite compelling. Gives a new shine on the old sector. This one came recommended by the Referee of a game I'm in, and he was spot on. A great book.

DB Game Design's Venture Class Frontier Courier pdf product is the first I've seen by an outside Liscencee for MGT, and if they are all like this, I may need to get a second mortgage! The detail of the deckplans strikes the precise balance between being clear, and still looking like the floorplan of a working starship. I am tempted to blow these plans up and get the shop to work on one. For a 4.00 price, I got way more than just a pdf. The company also, when I emailed to get on thier email list, supplied me with a link to a set of even cooler isometric breakdown "outtakes" from the release. DB Game Design knows its stuff!

The CT CDs and the Comstar/Avenger Products I will review elsewhere, and after I get done with this lot, its time to start chipping away at T5. I got some promo stuff with the CDs, and I want to know more...

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Interestingly, I ordered Mercenary twice here in the states. One from a comics company in NC. It took weeks to ship, never arrived, and I was told that it returned to sender in mutilated condition.

The second time I ordered it thru amazon, on a deal with Merc and Spinward in one go, The books arrived in great shape, but the box had been opened... I suspect Zhodani involvement.

 

[Echo]

The basic win-win combination I've got so far is Mongoose Traveller Core + Classic traveller CD-Rom. I'd prefer to have a pocket core book though. The Mongoose splatbooks are so-so for me, but they were always going to be (I don't really go for rules-add-ons, or splatbooks normally, although I'm fine if players use them). I think the Beltstrike campaign may be useful, though, and I am looking forward to the 2000AD titles, as much as anything else.

 

[Jamus]

I find myself consulting the CT books quite alot for back ground and library data.

 

[Psion]

I'm an old CT->MT fan who left the path at TNE, was disappointed in T4, but sort of liked T20.

I like the new chargen. It's less thorough than the advanced career paths of CT/MT, but also a bit less abusable and gets you some good background info with less work. I like that it works a bit harder to work the PCs together, stuff that the Ref had to do in CT/MT.

Folks who say that that the system generates too many skills have me scratching my head... I'm concerned it gives too few.

 

[GypsyComet]

Folks who say that that the system generates too many skills have me scratching my head... I'm concerned it gives too few.

It really depends on where they end up.

"Too many" increases the chances of stacking three or more into a single skill, at which point the task system starts to break for that skill. The system works quite well, however, if you get a lot of rolls that are spread thinly across the skill set. A reasonable number of well-spread skills helps shape the character mechanically and helps cement the career choice as having an effect on the character other than being a label. The stacking effect is what the "too many" folks are talking about.

"Too few" leads to the stats being dominant in the task system, which can have all sorts of other fallout, such as shortening careers to avoid *any* possible stat drops due to age, and a tendency to stick to the Personal Development tables for skill rolls. This will also lead to some careers being completely avoided due to lack of good stat increases.

 

[aramis]

Folks who say that that the system generates too many skills have me scratching my head... I'm concerned it gives too few.

It gives, roughly, the same density of skills as MT, counting the relationship-skills and level 0 skills, but in a somewhat different mix.

The Too Much crowd are comparing it to CT Bk2/S4. Bk2 and S4 give about 1.2-1.4 skills per term average (2 for scouts). MT gives a roughly 1.5-2.5 skills per term average.

My experience with MGT is about 1.5-2.5 skills per term, just about dead on to MT, IF you use the connections rule; otherwise it drops a bit.

It definitely gives more than CT.

And don't even get the people who think it gives too much started on the point-based option!

 

[Swiftbrook]

Saw the book at B&N last night. Black and white, large-ish text, and $40. I passed.

-Swiftbrook

 

[Supplement Four]

Saw the book at B&N last night. Black and white, large-ish text, and $40. I passed.

-Swiftbrook

I wonder if the MGT sales are still as strong as they were when the game was released. Sometimes things start big then die down quickly.

Anybody know?

 

[atpollard]

I wonder if the MGT sales are still as strong as they were when the game was released. Sometimes things start big then die down quickly.

Anybody know?

Ask that after High Guard hits the shelves.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Saw the book at B&N last night. Black and white, large-ish text, and $40. I passed.

-Swiftbrook

wait for the pocket edition. same text, smaller font, $25.

 

[Echo]

I wonder if the MGT sales are still as strong as they were when the game was released. Sometimes things start big then die down quickly.

Anybody know?

Mongoose seem pretty happy about it, and these things usually maintain their sales through the supplements. You will probably see another boost from the pocket edition and the Babylon 5 book, and then with the 2000AD titles, and so on.

They have described it as a 'core system' for Mongoose, have stated that it's probably their best selling title ever, and have a heavy release schedule for it (which apparently is planned for the next 10 years). What more is there to know, currently?

Actually, you could rename this thread:

Does Mongoose Traveller leave you sold?

...or possibly...

Does Mongoose Traveller leave you old?