Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

1. Holy cow, there's another Rhialto on the board. Thank god he isn't marvelous.

2. Aramis, you can't compare the D&D crowd with the likes of us who buy rarified stuff on spec, or to complete our gaming collection / reference library, or who are 1970s Traveller grognards. The tiny share of the D&D crowd that's equivalent to us hangs out at Dragonsfoot. But the actual D&D crowd is much bigger than that and has a different attitude to gaming.

There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who only *know* D&D. They know this one game, and this is what they play. They're not interested in games as pure reading material, or because they might some day play them.

I wish they would. I'm totally into Talislanta right now, but all I have in my area is a 4E meetup group.

 

[aramis]

It's really quite simple: Of the people I've met who bought 4E, half of them are doing so simply to have it, not to run it.

D&D is the 400 pound gorilla. But it isn't a direct correlation between sales and players.

Never has been. D&D probably has a higher correlation than MGT Traveller, and both of those higher still than most indie games. (Just read 3:16. Want to try it.) ANd a great many who buy D&D will wind up selling it used, as they simply fail to understand it, or can't get a group, etc.

I understand your frustration. And I've met the opposite crowd: Bought the Trek and/or Star Wars RPGs not to play them, but to read more details about the universe.

 

[Allensh]

In response to the original question in the title of this thread:

No.

Allen

 

[Gallowglacht]

Again, this might be the new kitten talking, but I may have a use for MGT. Although I prefer more detail for Traveller so use a SAGA/SST/T20 combo, I may well pick up a copy of MGT. Ironically, to run Starship Troopers after my Traveller campaign wraps up.

Now that I may have a use for it, its easier to see its good points. Although I might replace the damage and armour with T4's rules for them, this will be a simple job.

 

[rhialto]

1. Holy cow, there's another Rhialto on the board. Thank god he isn't marvelous.

Quite: to be authentic, I'd have to be "Marvellous".

I wish they would. I'm totally into Talislanta right now, but all I have in my area is a 4E meetup group.

Tal's a great setting, and SMS is a huge Vance fan. Ran a Tal (2nd ed) game for years: every once in a while my group asks if I'll resurrect it.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Again, this might be the new kitten talking

You just wait until it's an old cat and doesn't go in the litter box and scratches all the furniture, Hippy Kitty Hugger.

:rofl:

And now back to your regularly scheduled Traveller discussions.

 

[inire]

The Mongoose version of Trav makes me happy inside. The art isn't to my taste, but the books so far have been the Cat's Knees.

(full disclosure: i don't have 760 Patrons yet)

 

[chrisr]

MGT, i like it! But more importantly for me, my players like it and it's got us playing on a regular basis again. I like the chargen, which I think is the best of all versions, but generally I think of it as a 'refresh' of CT.
I've got most versions of Traveller. I always liked CT because it was simple and allowed lots of flexibility with skills, if the PC's need a skill they get level-0.

MT, I always found overly complicated, yet this was the ruleset that actually got played most! Probably because we had more time to play then.

TNE, barely got played which I always felt was a shame because I liked the setting. Though I always felt it was a different game to the rest of Traveller.

GT, never played, never really fancied it but I love the source books.

T4, The only ruleset I've not bought, though I do have some of the sourcebooks. I've not felt the need to buy this game and it's had so much negative publicity I'd probably only buy it on the cheap.

T20, Lots of things I liked about this game at the time, but now it feels like a dead end. Though my current MGT campaign is set in Gateway domain. One thing it did do was get me back into Traveller in a big way after years of only playing D&D. It also got me into the forums which is maybe a good thing, my wife would disagree

chris

 

[Thunderbolt]

As one of those who buys them only to read, I don't hold MGT in as great regard as the original Traveller, but it does make me look at those venerable books with renewed interest, and think how they compliment them more than anything.

 

[GypsyComet]

In response to the original question in the title of this thread:

No.

Allen

Ditto.

The OGL/SRD/FUA mess surrounding MGT, on the other hand...

 

[dmccoy1693]

The OGL/SRD/FUA mess surrounding MGT, on the other hand...

Umm, what about the OGL and SRD was a problem? The FUA, I understand the fact that it took some time to get sorted out, was unfortunate, but it seems fine now. But lawers, licenses, negotiation take time. The net result is a non-commercial way to write stuff for MGT OTU. Granted, its not the Spinward Marches, but you do have the options of just never mentioning where it takes place.

Mongoose does have financial interets to protect. I'm sure it wasn't cheap for them to get Miller to agree to sunset all other licenses (save gurps and Miller's own) and who knows if it cost them more to release Foreven as a free sector to make the fans happy. So I'm wondering what about it is the problem?

 

[DonM]

What I don't understand is... MGT has the OGL and the TLL. If you don't like a rule in MGT, you can actually write a replacement, and publish it...

But I haven't seen that actually happen... yet.

 

[dmccoy1693]

But I haven't seen that actually happen... yet.

We haven't seen a flock of new or existing companies write for Traveller, yet. Mind you, I've heard some talk about some companies doing something in the near future, but nothing official ATM.

 

[tbeard1999]

What I don't understand is... MGT has the OGL and the TLL. If you don't like a rule in MGT, you can actually write a replacement, and publish it...

That's not exactly true.

The Traveller Logo License (TLL) lets you use the Traveller logo on commercial or non-commercial products. But it prohibits duplication (or replacement) of the character generation mechanics. It also prohibits changing established terminology for characteristics, world attributes (size, hydrographics, etc.). You're seriously restricted from using OTU terminology and product names.

The Foreven Free Sector License (FFSL) lets you use the Foreven Free Sector logo on commercial or non-commercial products. But it prohibits duplication (or replacement) of the character generation mechanics. It also prohibits changing established terminology for characteristics, world attributes (size, hydrographics, etc.). Under the Foreven Free License, you cannot use the trademark "Traveller" on the cover of any game book. Left unanswered is whether you can use the term "Traveller" inside the book (yet you apparently can use it on marketing materials). Kinda confusing.

The FFE Fair Use Policy creates a safe harbor for non-commercial use of various Traveller trademarks. But...you may not "rewrite the game in [your] own words".

You *can* rewrite the Open Game Content under the OGL, but you can't use FFE/Mongoose trademarks like "Traveller".

Caveat: I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. This is not intended to be legal advice or to create an attorney/client relationship. Heck, the fact that the Cowboys are losing to the hated Redskins at halftime could be causing me to hallucinate all this stuff. So pay a lawyer for advice that you intend to rely on.

 

[tbeard1999]

We haven't seen a flock of new or existing companies write for Traveller, yet. Mind you, I've heard some talk about some companies doing something in the near future, but nothing official ATM.

I suspect that part of the reason is that there are 3 different regimes for license/fair use. As a lawyer, I understand that this is, by nature, a pretty complex task (intellectual property law is designed to *protect* IP, not to enable free use of IP). However, I doubt a small scale game publisher would want to rely on these policies.

If I were tasked to define a policy, I'd define a single joint, unified FFE/Mongoose policy. I'd break it down like this:

Commercial Use
Non-Commercial Use
Fair Use
OGL

By putting it in a single document, it would be less confusing and contradictions between various versions could be harmonized. Still, they are trying and that's laudable.

 

[VT1099ace]

There is basicallt three things that turned me away from MgT.

Task system - Never understood the reason for negative DMs based on stats

Combat rules - Looks interesting, but the initiative rule seems to be very fiddly

Starships - I never liked HG or any similar starship designs,. Too limiting, and armor values are not compatible with armor values fro armored vehicles.

now there's where I disagree, I actually like a unfied skill/task system, CT was/is very situational in its skill roles that I find to disjionted, fine when I was 14, but now after 30 years of gaming I like an orderly unified mechanic (I even played through ICE's nighmare 'rolemaster' stuff and C&S first edition)...

Combat has some quirks I can work through...

Starship/ground vehicles armor I can deal with, ship weapons are huge, they state that over and over and Merc has some additions and clarifications....

but my complaint above all else is the poor proof reading/editing of the hard cover core book (and for that kind of cost) before it got sent out to my FLGS really irks me.

 

[Echo]

Well, let's see how the re-edited, cheaper, pocket version of the game goes then. My feeling is that it could resolve a significant amount of the highlighted cost issues that tend to be coming from the States side of the Atlantic.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Personally, I'd rather just an economy that works and a currency that's worth something, but that's just me.
[/threadjack]

 

[klingsor]

We have played the new Mongoose edition a couple of times now – continuing on Friday and the reaction has been surprising. I knew my brother had fond memories of it from back in the day but he loves the new edition and the reaction of another player is nothing short of astounding, he is a player, he has never had any ambition to run anything before but he has taken to Traveller as if it was long lost family – ordering a lot of the older material from Far Future and various PDFs as well as the new book. Something about the setting just seems to click with him.

The Mongoose system itself is pretty good. It may not be perfect but I like it better than any edition since Megatraveller and the last time I ran Traveller it was with the LBB which is probably indicative of my stance. The errata issues are fairly trivial (aside from the deckplans) – it is certainly no worse than any other modern RPG and a lot better than many (Serenity for example). I also love that they went back to the classic setting and did not really try to modernise it at all – beyond a few half-hearted references to cybertech which are easily ignored. The character sheet is pretty ugly but that seems to be a Mongoose hallmark and it is easily fixed. The art is a problem, too much of it is bad but as a GURPS fan I am fairly inured to bad art but I still think no art is better than bad art. Certainly glancing through some of the older products, T4 in particular, shows that this is nothing new.

Mercenary was a disappointment and 760 Patrons leaves me cold but Spinward Marches is good, the essays in particular are very, very good and even I, a Traveller GM since 1984 found something new, useful and interesting in them that I liked.

I am enjoying it, more than any other game in years. It is good to come home.

 

[danbuter]

I really like the game. But I'd been playing lots of DnD and White Wolf. This game is much easier for me, and I like that a good, basic sf game is being supported (outside of pdf publishers).