General Does someone in the Imperium really have a low SOC?

[Spinward Scout]

I was thinking about this after reading a post on Reddit today. A lot of people use SOC as a dump stat. Would someone really have a low SOC in the Imperium? I'm not sure how that would work.

What would that look like?

How do Referees handle this?

 

[whartung]

I dunno, if you look at the Imperium with a analytical eye, its a pretty dark place. I can see entire populations trapped in low socioeconomic areas. We just never really see them because they can't afford a low berth ticket to get off the rock they're stuck on.

 

[atpollard]

I was thinking about this after reading a post on Reddit today. A lot of people use SOC as a dump stat. Would someone really have a low SOC in the Imperium? I'm not sure how that would work.

What would that look like?

How do Referees handle this?

I use it.

As an example, Beau is a LL7 Civil Service Bureaucracy ... so not a dystopian hell, but a pretty "in your business" world government. The Atmosphere is TAINTED so the city of Brulantfort is comprised of 5 nearly identical domes. The PLAYERS arrive at the SECURITY CHECKPOINT at the entrance to the domed city (because a LL 7 Bureaucracy has LOTS of regulations and needs to make sure you are complying.) The first player question is "where will you sleep tonight?"

All persons of SOC 0-5 are marked a "Blue Collar" and restricted to Dome 1. So 2600 of the 10,000 residents of Brulantfort live in tiny Single family lots (think Shotgun Housing) or large, multi-story apartment complexes.

Contrast that with Dome 5, home to those of SOC 12+ with a population of 280 living in large Single family Homes surrounding a private park.

Every time the SOC 0-5 people are stopped by the police (or forced to deal with the Bureaucracy) they are questioned about their registering for employment and have they obtained steady work yet and the responsibility of every citizen to be a productive, contributing member of the community.

You chose to be SOC 4 ... you are the scum of the earth and will be treated accordingly. I bet there will be interest in "raising SOC" after CharGen.

[Ironically, in a society that posits fealty and ruling hereditary nobility, it would make sense for forms of INDENTURE, SERFDOM and SLAVERY to exist as well.]

 

[casquilho]

In my games I try to move the SOC away somewhat from titles and money alone. A wealthy trust fund baby who is also a serial killer may still have a low SOC as most people dislike him and do not want to be around him. Mother Teresa clearly lacked her own money and yet spent time in places of power and was greatly respected, I say she had a higher SOC score. What the SOC score means to me is linked to their story, as well as their money or title.

I have even allowed the score to be slightly fluid depending on where someone is. A War Hero may be treated as having a higher SOC score on one planet, but seen as a horrible person on another. Again, the story drives this.

For me, SOC score as a dump stat can be a scary thing if you are not thinking through the reality of what it could be used for in game.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Would someone really have a low SOC in the Imperium?

Short answer: YES.
Fun fact ... LBB S4, p6 ... one of the mustering out benefits you can get as a Pirate is -1 Social.

I'm not sure how that would work.

In a word ... UNDERCLASS.
You're not a SLAVE (per se), but you're functionally a peasant or a serf or an indentured servant (the lower rungs of society).
"Polite society" (and everyone who wants to be in it) basically SHUNS you or treats you as sub-human, not deserving (or worthy) of respect, courtesy or even just simple decency and kindness.
If you want a historical parallel, think Victorian England and the "unwashed lower classes" ... or if you prefer a historical example more in keeping with the Hindu caste system, you're one of the Untouchables.

Other obvious options are being presumed to be a criminal, even if you're not.
Not exactly "racial profiling" but very definitely SOCIAL profiling.

How do Referees handle this?

Depends on how much "social interaction" goes on in a campaign.
A campaign populated with the stereotypical "murder hobos" isn't going to have a lot of socializing going on, so you can kind of get away with letting social standing be your dump stat.

However, the flipside to that is the stereotypical "only the cool people can enter the club" type situations, where people with high(er) social standing are allowed into places and can meet Important Patrons™ while people with low(er) social standing are denied access and lack connections to the upper social classes.

You can even have "snubbing" go both ways.
High social standing people are "not welcome" in low social standing locations, establishments and neighborhoods. I'm reminded of James Bond in Live and Let Die ... where Bond is tailing a car that is driving into Harlem, NYC. Doesn't go well for Bond since he's a white face (who speaks in a posh british accent!) heading into a black neighborhood and EVERYONE is watching him and reporting his movements, feeding the food chain of informants, keeping tabs on the OUTSIDER.

 

[Condottiere]

The GURPS variant is better.

 

[kilemall]

Fun things to do with the underclass aspect of SOC.

Checking law level rolls such as harassment, you could make it

* Roll at LL or below to get harassed- apply DM of SOC-7. So if you are upper class, less chance of harassment, low SOC it could be near every day.

Fun way to play it- same rule for bribery rolls. So your bribe to get out of the hassle stop is likely more accepted from a lower SOC cause that's just normal business and they can squash you like a bug if you become a problem- if a higher SOC gets hassled and offers a bribe, that's REALLY suspicious and maybe this guy actually is a dangerous criminal.

More hardcore SOC rules- have to roll your SOC or below to get a High Passage ticket. Can't have the wrong sort of people mingling with the upper crust. For real hardcore, make it roll SOC+3 or less to get a Mid Passage. Lower classes get shipped off to the freezer.

Roll SOC or less for loans and contracts, situational DMs apply. If loans are not repaid and contracts repudiated, SOC declines.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I was thinking about this after reading a post on Reddit today. A lot of people use SOC as a dump stat. Would someone really have a low SOC in the Imperium? I'm not sure how that would work.

What would that look like?

How do Referees handle this?

Firefly (2002)
"Sherriff, I demand that this man be bound by law! Mal is my indentured servant with three years left on his contract!"
"Sorry for the stares ma'am. Few people round these parts ain't ever seen a real Companion before."

Shogun (1980)
"I am the great and important Captain Vasco Rodrigues. I am important, because I make them think I am important! It also helps that they do not speak English, eh Ingles?"

It seems that way because there are few official DMs to any dice rolls for tasks and other things RAW in the rulebooks where SOC comes into play. Once character generation is over (SOC for admission or advancement, etc.) I do not recall many examples. There is also the problem from the perception of players thinking SOC is immutable like the other stats (clearly not) and not of use.

First, there is that monthly upkeep rule. You don't use that? For shame. Some rulesets allow you to buy your SOC up (and let it drop) based on paying to "keep appearances". Once play begins you can't simply buy your way up to a noble title, but you can buy your way up to a +1 DM for having a SOC of 9. Clearly, you look more important than the average SOC 6-8 citizen with a DM +0. Or that dump stat lowlifes with a SOC of 2 (DM -2!) . In turn, you COULD degrade a honest to goodness noble's "apparent" SOC. You are not taking away their title, not at all, simply applying the lack of upkeep. If and until the noble can present their credentials, of course.

It should be used in be used de facto in most every social interaction roll if possible.
Games with the weekly law enforcement interaction/harassment roll, it should be used as a DM for the roll. "They looked like criminals"
The same for standing trial in MgT rules. "You are taking the word of that lowlife over that of a noble?!?

 

[mike wightman]

Where are the low Soc you ask?

"Forboldn Project: The primary colonization project within the Regina subsector. Originally conceived in 987 to utilize the resources of Forboldn (02081, the project began its execution phase in 1089, shortly after the Fourth Frontier War. Large numbers of colonists were recruited and shipped in cold sleep from the Imperial core, with arrival times set from 1110 to 1120.
Simultaneously, preparations on Forboldn began, with detailed planetary surveys to pinpoint resources and initial building projects to prepare industry and quarters for the arrival of colonists.

An interesting aspect of such colonization projects is the recruitment method used to supply the personnel who will actually make the colony function. Since virtually no amount of money will entice an individual to leave his home and livelihood for the bleak desolation of a colony world, the Ministry of Colonization has established several programs to produce colonists. Most obvious is the colonize in lieu of prison term program. However, several other programs have also shown signs of success. In the unemployment insurance program, high population worlds have successfully used the colonization project as a means of reducing unemployment over the long term. In a similar medical insurance program, indigents unable to obtain medical treatment are provided with their needs in exchange for signing on to a colony. The needs of a colony for skills are met through the anagathics program; qualified (and aged) individuals can be provided with anagathics to extend their life spans in return for their providing such skills as administration, mechanical crafts, or medical expertise. Finally land grants to retiring veterans has provided a cadre for the new colony's military and police forces."

 

[kilemall]

Oh I forgot the really mean possible SOC counts in large amounts rule.

Law level is a sliding scale, to include who can own and carry what weapon.

LL - (SOC-7).

So for a LL 5 world, SOC 12 is treated as LL 0 and SOC 3 is treated like LL 9.

 

[whartung]

Shogun (1980)
"I am the great and important Captain Vasco Rodrigues. I am important, because I make them think I am important! It also helps that they do not speak English, eh Ingles?"

The big question is how well does SOC translate across cultures and worlds.

 

[Bartleby]

IMTU SOC is obvious. People are judged on their SOC as soon as they enter a room. You cannot just put on a space-tux and enter a room of high born and think you can mingle.

 

[Condottiere]

Facial recognition software will tell the aristocracy and bureaucracy what your social standing is, through identifying you.

Your identity card will confirm it.

 

[Badenov]

IMTU SOC is obvious. People are judged on their SOC as soon as they enter a room. You cannot just put on a space-tux and enter a room of high born and think you can mingle.

Facial recognition software will tell the aristocracy and bureaucracy what your social standing is, through identifying you.

Your identity card will confirm it.

SOC used to be obvious at a glance when the visible accoutrements of status were so expensive that only the wealthy could afford them.
You'd be able to use visual cues to tell the Soc A aristocrats from the Soc 9 posers by the cut of their tux. But with the industrial revolution and automation came cheaper accoutrements, and now anyone can get a tailored tux. It's still not cheap, but you don't need to be a baron to afford it.

As was pointed out, facial recognition and other ID software will point out who's who, but you -can- buy your way up at least to a certain point. Mind you, a Soc 9 tailored tux doesn't get you Soc 9 mannerisms and habits, that's almost certainly an acting roll, but as they say, "Fake it 'til you make it."

 

[casquilho]

However, if someone were to show up to the same party wearing a Kanzu and Kofia rather than a tailored tux, the whispers and rumors would also quickly establish their SOC in my game. Is he a visiting dignitary from another planet or an unknown merchant who is trying to buy his way into the higher social circles. Who invited him, who's guest is he.

 

[Bartleby]

Facial recognition software will tell the aristocracy and bureaucracy what your social standing is, through identifying you.

Your identity card will confirm it.

This is excellent. But it is even more obvious IMTU. Certain soc levels have access to technology that make their skin always look young and blemish free, as one example.

Show up at a high soc event with what we would call a regular looking face today and you clearly don't belong. Mind you, show up at a working class dive bar with perfect skin and you get similar looks of not being one of them.

Important for me because IMTU there is no central database of who anyone is. So when you show up from off planet without a local id card and facial recognition gets you nothing, you cannot simply wear an expensive outfit and announce you are the Count of Monte Cristo. Your face gives you away.

Of course dialect, clothing, protocols also play a part. And as @whartung says above, it won't always translate from world to world. Certain worlds do not care about a high SOC unless it is a high SOC from their world. Everyone else is an outsider.

 

[Condottiere]

Outside of etiquette lessons, and we'll assume expensive cosmetic surgery, and would be stuff that you couldn't get retail.

Women's handbags and secret society rings.

And, of course, coded phrases and handshakes.

 

[mike wightman]

If the Imperium wishes to push facial recognition, digital ID, and social credit i would be joining the Ine Givar faster than you can say thought police...

 

[Bartleby]

If the Imperium wishes to push facial recognition, digital ID, and social credit i would be joining the Ine Givar faster than you can say thought police...

Way back in 1983 or whatever, as a new referee, I was so terrified of managing my characters consequences, every Imperial citizen was in a database and had to carry IDs wherever they went. The IDs were also indestructible and had to be provided on command and at every starport before entering or leaving a planet.

I just could not imagine any other way to do it.

 

[Condottiere]

Being microchipped might be optional for Imperium citizens.

Probably mandatory for all employees, Imperium and megacorporation.