Economy of transport

[Spartan159]

Regardless of RAW, why should I be charging per jump or per parsec to carry freight, whether it be for someone else or charging myself to transport speculative cargo?

Per jump does not seem to make economic sense to me as if anything it costs more for fuel the further you jump.

 

[kilemall]

Regardless of RAW, why should I be charging per jump or per parsec to carry freight, whether it be for someone else or charging myself to transport speculative cargo?

Per jump does not seem to make economic sense to me as if anything it costs more for fuel the further you jump.

Depends on what version of Traveller you have, some do have some distance value baked in.

We had a throwdown a few months ago on the wording of CT rules and what they actually said on this point. Rather then recreate that business, I'd say do what feels right, and consider the consequences if your players are gaming the system types or not.

You could play it on a per parsec basis, or you could increase the amount of cargo/passengers that will show up for a J-4 trip at J-1 prices. Everyone loves a bargain. I don't think it would be mutually exclusive.

There is a time value too to higher jump numbers, it would be arguable that a J-4 liner trip should cost more then Cr40000 since one is saving three weeks.

 

[Straybow]

It's your game, do what works for you.

Spoken as the guy who tried really hard to throw a monkey wrench into all notions of what the original intentions and effects of the rules really were.

 

[Silverhawk]

You could play it on a per parsec basis, or you could increase the amount of cargo/passengers that will show up for a J-4 trip at J-1 prices. Everyone loves a bargain. I don't think it would be mutually exclusive.

There is a time value too to higher jump numbers, it would be arguable that a J-4 liner trip should cost more then Cr40000 since one is saving three weeks.

In the rail industry if you want speed you pay. There are various speeds at which a shipment might travel at depending on the urgency of the customer. This is particularly true for intermodal containers and trailers. All the big railroads have 'premium' level service. Gets there the fastest but is higher cost than regular service.

So I can certainly see various rates for shipping something depending on how fast you want to get it there. Which suggests that even the major shipping lines are going to have ships with different jump capabilities running the same route. The difference being the price for passage or shipping being determined by just how fast your going to get there.

 

[robject]

Per jump is a relatively easy, flat-rate way to deal with economics. If your game is not about economics, it makes sense to use the abstraction.

Additionally, if you're using the trade rules that are bundled with the per-jump flat rate rules, then the effects work together. For example, LBB1-3 "roulette"-style trade rules are intended to be used with per-jump pricing... and the real purpose of those rules is to illustrate social stratification via experience -- one of the main points of Traveller is to show how players interact with that stratification. Do they think it's unfair? Do they exploit it?

In other words, the baseline is that economics are abstracted for the sake of the game. If the players want an economic simulation, you'll have to find more macro-economics-based rules (GURPS: Far Trader), or make some up.

 

[welsh]

I can certainly see various rates for shipping something depending on how fast you want to get it there. Which suggests that even the major shipping lines are going to have ships with different jump capabilities running the same route. The difference being the price for passage or shipping being determined by just how fast your going to get there.

Likewise, empty hold space is wasted opportunity. If I am running a type A free trader over 3 consecutive jumps and someone wants me to carry x tons of cargo the entire distance, it makes sense for me to drop the per jump rate rather than gamble I can fill my hold at each stop.

The standard rate is for ease of play, but it makes a mockery of the game principle that economics drives everything.

 

[vegas]

...and the real purpose of those rules is to illustrate social stratification via experience -- one of the main points of Traveller is to show how players interact with that stratification. Do they think it's unfair? Do they exploit it?

Could you expound on that a bit more? Perhaps give an example? I'm not sure I follow, but it is an interesting idea.

 

[Ulsyus]

There is a time value too to higher jump numbers, it would be arguable that a J-4 liner trip should cost more then Cr40000 since one is saving three weeks.

That all comes down to what is most important to those passengers/shippers: money or time. I was looking at international flights recently, and understand I'm firmly in the time category. While it would've been nice to save half the cost of the fare, doubling travel time and having 2 stops en-route was not within my acceptable parameters.

Hey Spartan159, have you seen the T5 update to the passenger and freight costs? They appear to be based off CT, but with additional elements nicely added for flavour and roleplaying.

 

[kilemall]

That all comes down to what is most important to those passengers/shippers: money or time. I was looking at international flights recently, and understand I'm firmly in the time category. While it would've been nice to save half the cost of the fare, doubling travel time and having 2 stops en-route was not within my acceptable parameters.

<Shrug> sure you could go SpacePriceline.com to fill those holds. I would argue that if that's a IMTU that most bargain shippers would consistently wait until the last minute to force a bargain, that there might be a 'bargain broker' that specializes in knowledge of empty holds and bank accounts to work out a going rate of below normal rate shipping.

Might also be a way to at least fill holds at cost from low pop worlds with otherwise low cargo generation. Get an extra die for each 10% off for instance.

Might also be standard practice that if you cut rate for some of your shippers, all will demand the rate. From now on.

Another direction I've gone is cutrate shipping, because the ships themselves are obsolete, unflagged, uncertifed, on the run from the bank, pirated, and if you are lucky not operated by cannibal pirates or leaky reactors.

No mortgage or investor service, no stinking rules.

No legal protection or recourse if something goes wrong.

They never see the 100D of any starport and any facility they see isn't better then E. Most likely it's an open space asteroid or discrete tertiary world handoff with one or more small craft operators with a talent or fix in for making cargo legit for final delivery.

 

[Spartan159]

That all comes down to what is most important to those passengers/shippers: money or time. I was looking at international flights recently, and understand I'm firmly in the time category. While it would've been nice to save half the cost of the fare, doubling travel time and having 2 stops en-route was not within my acceptable parameters.

Hey Spartan159, have you seen the T5 update to the passenger and freight costs? They appear to be based off CT, but with additional elements nicely added for flavour and roleplaying.

I'll have to look at them again, while I noted that passenger costs were modified by Demand rating, (which, by the time you spend all that tonnage is it really worth it?) but I did not see a modifier for Freight costs. Looking again.

 

[kilemall]

In the rail industry if you want speed you pay. There are various speeds at which a shipment might travel at depending on the urgency of the customer. This is particularly true for intermodal containers and trailers. All the big railroads have 'premium' level service. Gets there the fastest but is higher cost than regular service.

So I can certainly see various rates for shipping something depending on how fast you want to get it there. Which suggests that even the major shipping lines are going to have ships with different jump capabilities running the same route. The difference being the price for passage or shipping being determined by just how fast your going to get there.

To use the rail service analogy, the fastest transcon trains Blue Streak and Super-C fell by the wayside, because shippers didn't want to pay a topend rate for a 10-hour plus advantage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_C_(freight_train)


So maybe J-6 service is a bit too rough cost even for TL15, at least on the frontiers, perhaps the Core Worlds can get enough volume to support it.