Empire of Solee: Strawman, menace, or rival power

[Liam Devlin]

MrDaryen, read my stuff in PoT again last night.. seems I was wronger than I thought. Its one representatibve per 10 million. oops. can you forgive me? Sorry I forgot the zero.

(runs outside in rain, hollers for his Bwap editor soaking it up).

To err is human, to forgive, divine they say.

 

[Elliot]

To change the historical carriage to the 16th-18th century in a dumb sort of way:

While all the argie bargie between the RC (France) and Solee (Spain) is going on the Guild (England, or at least the English East India Company) are setting up informal trading bases all around RC and Solee space to allow their piracy and trading activities to thrive.

They originally do nothing more than profit from the Solee/RC silver (technology) they plunder, the slaves they sell and the products(pepper and spice) that their wide stretching informal trading bases allow them to 'ship' around the former Imperium.

While the RC and Solee smash each other the Guild become very rich for very little administrative effort. Eventually this wealth means that guild governours of trading bases spread throughout the old Imperium (e.g. Bombay, Virginia, Hong Kong) begin to take over the corrupt institutions of government in the Wilds at the invitation of the local elites (the transfer of the Moghul imperial administration into the hands of the English in the 18th century). Suddenly the Guild finds itself controlling a vast polity that has the bureacratic and administrative power to form into an empire. It now encircles Solee and the RC who pale into insignificance in comparison to the Guilds interstellar wealth...

AND then 1776 happens...

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Elliot:
To change the historical carriage to the 16th-18th century in a dumb sort of way:

While all the argie bargie between the RC (France) and Solee (Spain) is going on the Guild (England, or at least the English East India Company) are setting up informal trading bases all around RC and Solee space to allow their piracy and trading activities to thrive.

They originally do nothing more than profit from the Solee/RC silver (technology) they plunder, the slaves they sell and the products(pepper and spice) that their wide stretching informal trading bases allow them to 'ship' around the former Imperium.

While the RC and Solee smash each other the Guild become very rich for very little administrative effort. Eventually this wealth means that guild governours of trading bases spread throughout the old Imperium (e.g. Bombay, Virginia, Hong Kong) begin to take over the corrupt institutions of government in the Wilds at the invitation of the local elites (the transfer of the Moghul imperial administration into the hands of the English in the 18th century). Suddenly the Guild finds itself controlling a vast polity that has the bureacratic and administrative power to form into an empire. It now encircles Solee and the RC who pale into insignificance in comparison to the Guilds interstellar wealth...

AND then 1776 happens...

_______________________________________
...and the UWA is born (Diaspora Phoenix!!!). Helluva read, have you gotten it yet, Elliot?
Btw. A most excellent analogy, your forte' I see milord barrister.
Stars fer you then! (check your profile)

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Elliot:
Suddenly the Guild finds itself controlling a vast polity that has the bureacratic and administrative power to form into an empire. It now encircles Solee and the RC who pale into insignificance in comparison to the Guilds interstellar wealth...

I like it!

The Guild, of course, were originally set up as irredeemable bad guys in much the same way as the RC were unquestionable heroes. Turning this situation on its head is a brilliant solution to the setting's problems.

Of course, I doubt that this is what MJD has in mind, unfortunately.

What I _really_ hope he doesn't do, incidentally, is to base the "new Imperium" on leftovers from Craig the Lizard's freaks. I always hated Daibei, Delphi and Ilelish during the MT days.

Hmm. The Guild as good guys... That is actually a better idea than my TED Pocket Empire...

Alan

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by alanb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elliot:
Suddenly the Guild finds itself controlling a vast polity that has the bureacratic and administrative power to form into an empire. It now encircles Solee and the RC who pale into insignificance in comparison to the Guilds interstellar wealth...

I like it!

The Guild, of course, were originally set up as irredeemable bad guys in much the same way as the RC were unquestionable heroes. Turning this situation on its head is a brilliant solution to the setting's problems.

Of course, I doubt that this is what MJD has in mind, unfortunately.

What I _really_ hope he doesn't do, incidentally, is to base the "new Imperium" on leftovers from Craig the Lizard's freaks. I always hated Daibei, Delphi and Ilelish during the MT days.

Hmm. The Guild as good guys... That is actually a better idea than my TED Pocket Empire...

Alan</font>[/QUOTE]_________________________
Ah a fellow heretic of a different stripe. Hmmm
"Craig the Lizard"( symbol behind him was Brzk's Antares btw) is an errata from MT days--correct picture is in "Arrival Vengeance" (looks alot like Dubya, must admit, as someone on this forum pointed out once or twice before.).

Personally, between Solee/ RC/ UWA/ COE (solomani Rim-David Hale), the Guild is doomed, AlanB. Solee and RC don't want the competition--both have attacked and seized their ships, imprisoned their crews.

With a capital D.
It may exist in the regions still Wild in MJD's vision of the 4th Imperium.

I Do see alot more Free Traders breaking off from the Guild as the pressures mount, and discarding their shackles

why??--Craig's legacy:
A conscience. By God that sez it all.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
"Craig the Lizard"( symbol behind him was Brzk's Antares btw) is an errata from MT days.

I'm aware that it was an errata, of course, but I've always liked it as a nickname.

Personally, between Solee/ RC/ UWA/ COE (solomani Rim-David Hale), the Guild is doomed, AlanB. Solee and RC don't want the competition--both have attacked and seized their ships, imprisoned their crews.

Yeah. The problem is that it was set up as an enemy to be defeated.

In fact, if you look at it, it's actually "yet another pocket empire". It's main difference is that it is decentralised, and doesn't have huge fleets and armies. That's not a bad way of doing things in a context where Vampire Fleets can roll up on your doorstep and start laying nukes on you, but it's not good when you are dealing with a more organised opponent.

I don't really think Solee is a major problem for it. The Guild's main sphere of operations seems to be in Diaspora, rather than Old Expanses, so the loss of its operations in the Expanses isn't necessarily fatal.

Similarly, the Terran and Dingir PEs are a long way away, and it should be possible to come to an accomodation with one or the other of them by the time they show up.

The Covenant of Suffren is a worry, but don't seem to be _too_ much of an independent factor.

The outfit in Zarushagar could be an issue too, eventually, but they aren't necessarily going to be hostile.

The real problem is the RC, who are directly advancing into the Guild's heartland.

At some point, of course, the Guild will have to accept that the empire builders are back, but if they do so in a timely manner, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to go legit. They certainly have enough starports and industry under their influence.

I've always been a bit snaky about how the TNE metaplot told us how things where going to turn out. It made life a bit difficult for those of us who really wanted to build our own little empires.

After all, who would want to go near the RC or the Regency when you could start with your own local TED, a couple of friendly Free Traders and a Patrol Cruiser, and go on to build an interstellar civilisation?

Alan

 

[Liam Devlin]

Thanks alanB. Lemme get this straight, can I?

alanB posted"Yeah. The problem is that it was set up as an enemy to be defeated.

In fact, if you look at it, it's actually "yet another pocket empire". It's main difference is that it is decentralised, and doesn't have huge fleets and armies. That's not a bad way of doing things in a context where Vampire Fleets can roll up on your doorstep and start laying nukes on you, but it's not good when you are dealing with a more organised opponent.

I don't really think Solee is a major problem for it. The Guild's main sphere of operations seems to be in Diaspora, rather than Old Expanses, so the loss of its operations in the Expanses isn't necessarily fatal.

Similarly, the Terran and Dingir PEs are a long way away, and it should be possible to come to an accomodation with one or the other of them by the time they show up.

The Covenant of Suffren is a worry, but don't seem to be _too_ much of an independent factor.

The outfit in Zarushagar could be an issue too, eventually, but they aren't necessarily going to be hostile.

The real problem is the RC, who are directly advancing into the Guild's heartland.

At some point, of course, the Guild will have to accept that the empire builders are back, but if they do so in a timely manner, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to go legit. They certainly have enough starports and industry under their influence.

I've always been a bit snaky about how the TNE metaplot told us how things where going to turn out. It made life a bit difficult for those of us who really wanted to build our own little empires.

After all, who would want to go near the RC or the Regency when you could start with your own local TED, a couple of friendly Free Traders and a Patrol Cruiser, and go on to build an interstellar civilisation?"
_____________________________________________
Solee and the RC crush the Guild in Old Expanses as their borders move towards each other 1202-1204. The GUild as a sympathetic character?
Not hardly. Not with slaving, etc piracy, raiding like in days of the Hard Times.

Solee was the puppy set to fail. The GUild is a bad Guy element in Diaspora-OE.
The Guild as you say, and truly) has more mobility, more flexibility.

Sufren? Before SNAKE and meeting the RC, was not an expansionist state. AFterwards, IMHO, yes. The Guild probably called themselves "Free Traders" and did some shopping with the Sufrenese--following all of their tight laws about security of course (or be shot out of space!!!)

IMTU, the Guild is in each Sector of the former IMperium. In Zarushagar, its known for its technology theft in the "Duchy of Oasis" (as per Greg Videll's Challenge articles);

In Dagudshaag, a similar form of the Disaporan Guild exists.
In Gushmege, they've allied themselves with Vammpires in Strephon's former Rureravyn stronghold subsector (Micheal Koehne's campaign, in Germany)
In corridor the guild is actually a resistance group versus the Vampires in several small groups.
(Pete Grays tene-silenttower write ups).

All shall be made clearer by the T-20 crowd. ANd soon. Me personally, I think the Guild will shack up adjacent polities as "Free Traders" once the UWA/RC/COE run into each other (this would be my guess of MJD's region of "The Free States", after the 4th Imperium gets founded (1248)

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
The GUild as a sympathetic character? Not hardly. Not with slaving, etc piracy, raiding like in days of the Hard Times.

I don't see them as significantly worse than all the other pirates out there.

It's true that they were cartooned. The character in Star Vikings was a farce.

As far as piracy, slavery and all that goes, well, it didn't stop the British Empire from portraying themselves as the ultimate human civilisation.

IMTU, the Guild is in each Sector of the former IMperium.

IMTU, I take a more literal view of the details that are given in various places, and assume that it is Diaspora-based. Similar groups may exist elsewhere, of course, but there would be little or no contact or cooperation with them. In fact, there would be other little wolfpacks hanging out even in Guild space.

As far as your vision of things goes, it actually would make the Guild seem more sympathetic than otherwise. Essentially it casts them into the role of a genuine successor to the Imperium!

OK, let's face it, the Guild isn't going to be the basis for a viable "Fourth Imperium". Then again, given the number of sector-sized Pocket Empires that seem likely to appear, putting a "Fourth Imperium" together looks like it might be easier said than done, particularly if the Regency (by far the strongest) breaks up. I can't see any particularly good reason why a Guild-descended PE (or two, or more!) couldn't survive into such a period of competing states.

Hmm, well, that is a point, isn't it? Do we _want_ a "Fourth Imperium" or do we actually want a bunch of rival states, which can reflect our various prejudices and mad ideas?

Alan

 

[Liam Devlin]

Alan posted "I don't see them as significantly worse than all the other pirates out there.

It's true that they were cartooned. The character in Star Vikings was a farce.

As far as piracy, slavery and all that goes, well, it didn't stop the British Empire from portraying themselves as the ultimate human civilisation."
______________________________
Not signifigantly worse? No, perhaps not. But not saints either. Lots of gray here...captains blackmailed into it, extorted into it--cuz the safe repair ports are mostly in Guild hands (Count up the C-class and B-class ports in Diaspora 001-1201. Sufren own one of the C's. The Guild has run of one there, both B's,Promise is a vampire state till the RC hits em late 1202-early 1203 and the freeport at Berens/Madoc. .(Which they're muscling in on). And a lot of the D-class are in their hands as well.

Ah but slavery isn't the way of the 3rd Imperium, far less the 4th Imperium. So they will reform, be crushed, or be shunted of into the wilds.

IMTU, I take a more literal view of the details that are given in various places, and assume that it is Diaspora-based. Similar groups may exist elsewhere, of course, but there would be little or no contact or cooperation with them. In fact, there would be other little wolfpacks hanging out even in Guild space.

As far as your vision of things goes, it actually would make the Guild seem more sympathetic than otherwise. Essentially it casts them into the role of a genuine successor to the Imperium!"
___________________________________
And where in what I was painting on the walls here, did you get that idea? Not all of the Guil is "evil" as we define it. Unscrupulous, profits over ethics, yes. But no conscience. Successor to the IMperium. I think NOT!
________________________________________

"OK, let's face it, the Guild isn't going to be the basis for a viable "Fourth Imperium". Then again, given the number of sector-sized Pocket Empires that seem likely to appear, putting a "Fourth Imperium" together looks like it might be easier said than done, particularly if the Regency (by far the strongest) breaks up. I can't see any particularly good reason why a Guild-descended PE (or two, or more!) couldn't survive into such a period of competing states.

Hmm, well, that is a point, isn't it? Do we _want_ a "Fourth Imperium" or do we actually want a bunch of rival states, which can reflect our various prejudices and mad ideas?"[/i}
_______________________________________
The Guild's monopoly on starships, astrogation, and Trade is coming to an end. Knowledge is triumphing all over the place. Ignorance and xenophobia is ending.
IN the UWA, Craig's legacy is the fire in the furnace.

In the RC, its Hiver whispers in the ear of evangelical crusaders who discover, the Wilds doesn't alwys want to be saved, and have to force them to their feet.

In David Hale's COE in the Rim, its a Jihad against Virus that unites the world, and missionary work that did the rest. His view on how they view Virus makes for some hostility towards the RC when they meet and greet. (Fireworks!)

In the Regency, the stagnation of the economy is but one of the factors that propels them over the frontier.

In Solee, its the amassing of wealth in empire, recontacting worlds for Trade and ports in a twisted vision of Margret's Dream of re-expansion interrupted by the Collapse. Classic Gunboat diplomacy, carrot and stick.

The Guild's leadership opposes polities. They are a threat to their monopoly philosphy of three (Ships, astrogation, trade the way they play it).

Unlike the villains of Vampire fleets, the Guild will probably outlast them, being decentralized, but it also means they have no cohesion toface down their foes, and can only delay the inevitable. With losses in profits and ships, comes loss of power Alan.
And enough of these can change the Guild's leadership to take a friendlier approach--back to its original purpose!

 

[daryen]

No apology necessary. Plus, using 10 million makes your numbers work again.

Either way, your point that that type of representation is untenable is still correct.

I have a question that is a bit off topic, but since it was mentioned above, I will just put it here.

*Why* was the Regency's economy "stagnating"? I don't get it. They were actively raising tech levels, they had tons of internal markets, and they had lots of external markets. What am I missing?

They really only had one major problem: the disintegration of the Zhodani Consulate. The Aslan were not a problem. The Darrians were focused toward Foreven. The Sword Worlds were only a problem in the occupied worlds. Even the Vargr were as much (if not more) a market than a problem.

Now, if they wanted to say the Regency was in trouble because of Norris' massive changes to society, I could by it. But I can see absolutely no reason why the Regency's economy was "stagnating" or why that would be a problem even if it was.

Thank you in advance for any enlightenment.

 

[Liam Devlin]

daryen, Thank you for posting. And I was off in me numbers, so I WAS wrong. But cheerfully, I can admit it too!

Back to Regency question.

The RE was stagnating for two reasons. 70 years of building back up BTC, warding off Virus, taking onrefugees from Zhodane Space creates a different set of problems.

Yes, The tech bases were increased on many planets.
But The RE had to expand outwards. Not inwards. It had done that as much as it could. Not all worlds accepted Norris Reforms willingly.

The RQS reports of lessening Vampires in Deneb also contributed to the push to move outwards, to reclaim the Full length of the Spinward marches. New Markets were needed. A population boom from the prosperity of being the most successful state BTC didn't help. Theinfrastructure could only expand so fast--and population was going faster than available opportunities.

The Great Land Rush" campaign setting by Starpilot/ Chris Griffen worked on this premise. I tend to follow this way of thought (I may be wrong). Pete Gray of TNE list has a more darker vision of why the regency struck forth to re-colonize, but it too boils down to economics in the end. More to be gained out there, than where everything had remained frozen in time for 72 years. )A captain hell(the Wilds) better than a servant in heaven (The safe snug Regency).

Thats oversimplifying it. Really it is.

What MJD will do with it, I'm not sure. He does have a way of tying things together nicely Have you read Diaspora Phoenix Pt1 yet?

Read it if ye haven't.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
daryen, Thank you for posting. And I was off in me numbers, so I WAS wrong. But cheerfully, I can admit it too!

Back to Regency question.

The RE was stagnating for two reasons. 70 years of building back up BTC, warding off Virus, taking onrefugees from Zhodane Space creates a different set of problems.

Yes, The tech bases were increased on many planets.
But The RE had to expand outwards. Not inwards. It had done that as much as it could. Not all worlds accepted Norris Reforms willingly.

The RQS reports of lessening Vampires in Deneb also contributed to the push to move outwards, to reclaim the Full length of the Spinward marches. New Markets were needed. A population boom from the prosperity of being the most successful state BTC didn't help. Theinfrastructure could only expand so fast--and population was going faster than available opportunities.

The Great Land Rush" campaign setting by Starpilot/ Chris Griffen worked on this premise. I tend to follow this way of thought (I may be wrong). Pete Gray of TNE list has a more darker vision of why the regency struck forth to re-colonize, but it too boils down to economics in the end. More to be gained out there, than where everything had remained frozen in time for 72 years. )A captain hell(the Wilds) better than a servant in heaven (The safe snug Regency).

Thats oversimplifying it. Really it is.

What MJD will do with it, I'm not sure. He does have a way of tying things together nicely Have you read Diaspora Phoenix Pt1 yet?

Read it if ye haven't.

My understanding from the various discussions and hints that MJD contributed seem to indicate either a major change in the structure of the Regency or out right splintering by 1248, the suggest time period for the T20:NE sourcebook.

Personally I don't want the Regency to fall. Mostly sentimental for being the first sector published, but I believe it could had the strength to survive, if not prosper.

I go with the Manifest Destiny doc that highlights the colonization and recontact efforts made by the Regency towards the Imperial Core. Norris and his predecessor would know that any chance of rebuilding an Imperium would require recontact of the Wilds and the outright extermination of all Virus. So besides improving the infrastructure and borders BTC, there would have been projects, whose goal was to prepare for expansion back into the old Imperial territories.

I would also contend that backing the Aslani in a program to rebuild the main Hierate region will help. IMHO the Aslani, especially the current crop of Ihatei, will see this as a matter of honor to reclaim the worlds of thier ancestors.

Another front for reconstruction is the the Zhodani Consulate. Depending exactly the Empress Wave is and what is did to the Consulate, The Regency, both public and corporate concerns, could fund expeditions to recontact the surviving Zhodani worlds. Of course this all depends on what's left after the wave passed thru. What Regency gets out of this is a friendly power and trading partner that agrees to no more Frontier Wars. If a doable Zhodani ruling group can be developed, they will be agreeable with any future dealings of the Regency, both for the help the Regency gave and the fact psionics are acceptted more than in the Pre-Regency period.

Sidenote: From various messages I take it there is an official PE center on Earth. What sources exist on this topic?

 

[T. Foster]

Originally posted by George Boyett:
Sidenote: From various messages I take it there is an official PE center on Earth. What sources exist on this topic?

The controversial "Children of Earth," created by Harold Hale, first published in several late-period issues of The Traveller Chronicle, now mostly available here.

Last I knew, CoE likely wasn't going to be canon in Martin's New Era, but that may have changed. If I'm wrong, I have no doubt someone will step forward to correct me.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
The RE was stagnating for two reasons. 70 years of building back up BTC, warding off Virus, taking onrefugees from Zhodane Space creates a different set of problems.

Yes, The tech bases were increased on many planets.
But The RE had to expand outwards. Not inwards. It had done that as much as it could. Not all worlds accepted Norris Reforms willingly.

The Zhodani refugees and the Norris Reforms caused social, not economic, problems. Seeing the Regency implode/splinter because of massive social unrest would not be terribly surprising.

But that is not what is listed as the main problem. What is listed as the main problem is "economic stagnation". In a polity the size of the Regency, there can't really be any economic stagnation, especially in a time period as short as 70 years.

Even if the Regency was alone with solid borders, the tech increases alone would create massive new markets, as people replace their TL9-11 "crap" with spiffy new TL12-15 stuff.

But they are not alone. They have the Aslan, Vargr, Darrians and remaining Zhodani to work with to provide even more markets. (Plus whoever lies beyond spinward and rimward.)

Having the Regency die due to social upheval makes perfect sense, and, given the setup in the Regency Sourcebook, is quite likely. So why did they bring up the economic stuff, which doesn't seem to make any sense?

(Same goes for expansion. The Regency felt it needed to expand for social, not economic, reasons. There really wasn't any need to open the borders if only economics was considered.)

 

[shield]

Agree with George B, why should the regency implode. appart from DNs habit of turning things on their heads. as for social problems, the marches were always the most cosmopolitan area, they will manage.

I prefer the Manifest destiny approach to regency history, and they will find many allies. Both the Hub worlds and the Duchy of Oasis contain significant imperial social structures. And the renewed federation of antares hmmh.

I can see the rimward half of the old imperium going more towards the independent states (RC, Covenant, Pheonix etc. Whilst the coreward half has more imperial like PEs. But even this isn't strictly true as the Dingir league is definately an Imperial Child.

As for the guild, they are not the sucessors to the 3rd Imperium, they are the successors to the old megacorporations withour imperial oversight - commerce without controls or ethics.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Arsulon]

George/Richard,
I tend to agree with your stance on the Regency. I admit that I'm biased towards them but by reviewing the availabe resources its hard to accept the Regency would simply disolve overnight. They represent vast storehouse of military, diplomatic, scientific and economic talent and resources. The Manifest Destiny campaign is admirable for its even-handed approach. Rather than characterizing the Regency's expansion back into the "wildside" as an unqualified success, Chris very maturely anticipates the difficulties in managing frontier "hub-and-wheel" economies; the passing of RQS and necessity of a Colonial Service; the tension of centralism vs. decentralism in colonial government; as well as the spectre of home-rule and presence of the Regency Navy. Great stuff.
Your point about continuing to "build bridges" with the nascent Aslan Hierate is well taken: the Regency's Aslan prides will shape the Hierate in the Wilds and remember the days of the Patrol when the Regency stood with them. Likewise, whatever the Empress Wave is, it CANNOT be insurmountable: not with the preparation and foreknowledge implied in the sourcebooks. The Regency will likely aid its refugee population in reclaiming thier worlds (again, forging strong ties with whatever nation inherit the Consulate.)
Another reason, often overlooked, for the plausiblity of the Regency's success in reclaiming the wildside is the fact that they have (as of 1126) the location, and challenge and entry codes of EVERY Jumstart cache in the Imperium. Strephon notes in his letter to Norris that no single noble in the Imperium has all of them. Imagine the potential this represents: as the Regency advances the can virtually count on accessing these caches to rebuild local economies and tech-bases. Likewise, knowledge of the location/codes to the caches represent an important diplomatic bargaining chip with pre-existing stellar polities.
I know MJD's vision includes the eventual fragmentation of the Regency, but in the immediate New Era we have to admit they will be a force to be reckoned with for some time to come.

 

[shield]

Forgot,

Regency will only implode socially if they don't have a frontier to allow the disatisfied to escape. The far fontiers / foreven / aslan colonies provided that for 70 years. The old imperiallines fanzine stated that Norris and the mega corps came storming through those disorganised sectors under the old Zho consulate. This provides a relief valve and is safe from virus thanks to the great rift. Only now do they attempt to enter the wilds.

Yes, the aslan would want to secure the old hierate. All those family honoured hierlooms to retrieve, bases of clan enemies to conquor, even if the enemy died 70 years ago.

Cheers
Richard

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Ah but slavery isn't the way of the 3rd Imperium, far less the 4th Imperium. So they will reform, be crushed, or be shunted of into the wilds.

So? They reform. Big deal. If you don't adapt you become extinct.

"The way of the 3rd Imperium" is irrelevant, decades after the 3rd Imperium fell. "The way of the 4th Imperium" won't be established until the 4th Imperium is established.

(In fact, on a game level I personally think that the idea of a 4th Imperium is a mistake: what advantage does it have over the 3rd Imperium?)

And where in what I was painting on the walls here, did you get that idea? Not all of the Guil is "evil" as we define it. Unscrupulous, profits over ethics, yes. But no conscience. Successor to the IMperium. I think NOT!

If it exists in every sector of the Imperium, it _is_ the Imperium. Or at least, _an_ Imperium.

Besides, the Imperium is a trade confederation. It is no more or less moral than the British Empire was during the Opium Wars or the slave trade. Nor is the Guild.

Alan

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by T. Foster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by George Boyett:
Sidenote: From various messages I take it there is an official PE center on Earth. What sources exist on this topic?

The controversial "Children of Earth," created by Harold Hale, first published in several late-period issues of The Traveller Chronicle, now mostly available here.

Last I knew, CoE likely wasn't going to be canon in Martin's New Era, but that may have changed. If I'm wrong, I have no doubt someone will step forward to correct me.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks I now have a map of 1202 Solomani Rim.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Arsulon:
George/Richard,
...Another reason, often overlooked, for the plausiblity of the Regency's success in reclaiming the wildside is the fact that they have (as of 1126) the location, and challenge and entry codes of EVERY Jumstart cache in the Imperium. Strephon notes in his letter to Norris that no single noble in the Imperium has all of them. Imagine the potential this represents: as the Regency advances the can virtually count on accessing these caches to rebuild local economies and tech-bases. Likewise, knowledge of the location/codes to the caches represent an important diplomatic bargaining chip with pre-existing stellar polities.

I forgot the Jumpstart caches. Besides being a great depot network for the Regency imagine if someone else finds one and unlocks the security!

Originally posted by Arsulon:
I know MJD's vision includes the eventual fragmentation of the Regency, but in the immediate New Era we have to admit they will be a force to be reckoned with for some time to come.

Hopefully it's not full fragmentation, but a secession of the non-Imperial powers from the Regency. Some of them will begin thier own exploration. Darrians would investigate the Foreven and other Spinward sectors. The Aslani, though still allies, will go thier own way into the Hierate Wilds and the spinward rift border sectors. Zhodani will either die out as an unique culture or they begin reclaiming the Consulate.