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Everything I know about Jump I learned from MWM

whartung

SOC-14 5K
MOD NOTE: Far-Trader here. Frak, I am burned-out. Sorry about that, went to reply and accidentally edited your post. Managed to restore it below. This is by way of explanation why it shows an edit. Nothing wrong with the post. Carry on.

Kind of in followup to the velocity topic on the CT section.

As most everyone knows, there is a solid article about Jump in JTAS 24 written by Mark.

Rather than quoting the article chapter and verse, I'm going to summarize all of the points of "fact" that I think can be taken from this article about the nature of jump.

Simple facts taken out of the article, in no particular order :

+ As a rule, no one understands Jump space.

+ Gravity inhibits jump. If you try to ENTER jump within 100D, you will likely misjump, probably catastrophically. If you try to exit jump within 100D, you will not misjump, rather you will simply re-enter at the 100D border.

+ There are a multitude of "Jump Spaces". The time it takes to travel through jump depends on which Jump Space you enter. This is the 168hr +/- 10% rule. The time in Jump Space is basically a constant, however the amount of energy applied affects the distance you actually travel.

+ The arrival point of a jump destination is accurate to within 3000 Kms per parsec traveled. The precision of the drive and the computer involved primarily affects this number (so an "out of tune" drive can exacerbate this error).

+ The vector of the ship is maintained. The vector is based upon some universal frame of reference. So, since different systems are traveling through the universe at different rates, a ship at "velocity 0" relative to the system primary in System A will have velocity and heading X relative to the system primary in System B, with this being the differential between the two systems.

+ People notice jump transitions (they can feel it when they jump), people tend to get sicker during misjumps.

+ Jumps take a lot of energy. Fusion is typical simply because it's capable of efficiently creating the large amounts of power, but it's not the only possible source. Since the energy is stored in capacitors or some other device capable of fast discharge, anything that can adequately charge the device can be used for jump. It's the capacitor that causes the jump, not the fusion power plant.

+ A jump capable ship must have a network of wiring built in to the hull to maintain a "jump field" to protect the ship. Integrity issues with this jump field subjects the ship to jump space physics, and likely leads to a misjump. Other object in jump space tend to be destroyed.

+ A computer is necessary to properly feed the power in to and control the jump. This process is a precise procedure that requires something like the computer to manage the intricacies of the process.

+ Jump drives have Jump Coils made of lanthanum.

+ Operationally, the "jump procedure" include powering up the capacitors, which is noted as a particularly inefficient use of fuel as the power plant quickly charges the capacitors "in a few minutes". Once charged, the computer feeds the power in the capacitors to the drive. The drive then create a "hole in space", the ship "falls in to" the hole, and finally, the drive closes the hole behind the ship. The ship is now in jump space, and jump begins.

+ Once jumps begins, the duration of the flight is known. The duration is dependent upon which jump space is entered, the energy applied, and "other factors".

+ A ships jump destination can not be predicted.

So, those are basic axioms as presented in the article.

What can we infer from these?

One, is the affect of the 100D limit. Don't start jump within a 100D limit, but if you try to exit jump within a 100D limit, the nature of the system simply spits you out at the 100D limit. This implies limited "jump masking". Notably if you're within the 100D limit of a star, you can not jump, nor can you enter within the 100D limit of a star. However nothing here suggests that the 100D sphere around a body "blocks line of sight". There's nothing to suggest that you will be pulled out of jump by a rogue gravity well. Rather, only when you actually leave jump space does the 100D limit apply, not within jump space. So, if you want to jump to the other side of a star in the same system, the star can't stop you, it's not "in the way". You can't jump in or out of it within 100D, but once you're in, it's not yanking you out. You're in the wrong dimension.

Your vector is maintained. Basically, you can set up whatever vector you are traveling at, pick it up wholesale, and place it any place you want, and that vector is still with you when you exit jump. Systems and their bodies have their own vectors that you will need to be aware of, but if you care, you can plan around all of these.

Capacitors power jump drives, something else powers capacitors. Fusion and Solar Power were mentioned directly in the article, but it's clear that the capacitor is what feeds the drive, not the power plant directly. The implication is that power plants that need to create energy "quickly" are inefficient with fuel use, some of the fuel is used for cooling, some is used for cleaning. The entire jump process is combined from the power plant charging the capacitor to the capacitor firing the drive.

Nothing is said about the capacity of the capacitor, the power requirements of the drive (how much and how fast), nor the stability of the capacitors when charged. Why they are not charged during the trip to 100D, perhaps with a more efficient use of the power plant and thus using less fuel, is not explained. Perhaps the capacitors don't remain charged for very long. Perhaps they "leak", perhaps they're difficult to discharge once charged (save through activating the drive), who knows. But, for whatever reason, procedurally, capacitors are quickly charged and immediately discharged for jump. Why do they do that? Because everyone does that. They've always done that.

Ship destinations can't be predicted. Doesn't matter what direction they're pointing, you have no idea where they're going (if anywhere) when a ship jumps. You may see them "fall in to a hole". Whether that process causes a "flash" is not specified at all.

The sphere of uncertainty regarding actual destination (3000 Km per parsec) is based on tolerances of the drive and the process that feeds it (the computer). So, it's pretty easy to see how a "Scotty" quality engineer might be able to offer some control over that uncertainty if it were ever important. That said, a "Scotty" likely can't have his hand on a lever and operate a jump drive manually when the computer is on the fritz. It says it's a rather precise and detailed process requiring a computer. Spock, on the other hand...

Duration of jump is unknown until you're actually in jump space. Whether several ships can coordinate to perhaps enter the same jump space at the same time (to control arrival times) is not specified. But with a single ship, you simply don't know until you've crossed the threshold. Once the door closes, you know.

There is some kind of jump grid built in to the hull to maintain a jump field. This does not address something like a dispersed structure carrier with riders, but it suggests that the riders, while themselves not jump capable, should have a similar grid installed in their hulls that can mate or "plug in" with the carriers, since they would likely be subjected to jump space directly and will need the protection of the jump field.

There is no mention of how volume has any impact whatsoever on jump. Apparently its all about energy, but I guess that larger volumes simply need more energy.

You likely can not "hide" the fact that you jumped from a conscious passenger. Unless they have never experienced jump before, that prisoner locked in the brig will notice when it happens.

So, that's what I get from this article. It's from 1985, giving them plenty of time to thing things through as to how the process works. Hopefully it will answer others questions as well.
 
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Some quick from memory corrections (unless I'm wrong, I'm only operating on a couple of brain cells at the moment) or clarifications of a couple points that jump
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out at me (when I'm tired I get punny, apologies... )

Kind of in followup to the velocity topic on the CT section.


+ Gravity inhibits jump. If you try to ENTER jump within 100D, you will likely misjump, probably catastrophically.

Actually if you try to enter within 10D you will likely misjump, probably catastrophically. Entering between 10D and 100D is a small chance of misjump, and none of catastrophe (iirc), at least initially, if you roll badly it may be catastrophic.

+ There are a multitude of "Jump Spaces". The time it takes to travel through jump depends on which Jump Space you enter. This is the 168hr +/- 10% rule.

No, the multitude of Jump Space dimensions is what limits how many parsecs you can transit, not the time which is a (relative) constant. The energy applied is what sets the level of Jump Space you access (and hence how far you travel)

+ The arrival point of a jump destination is accurate to within 3000 Kms per parsec traveled.

I thought it was 1000km per parsec, but my memory ain't what it used to be so I could be wrong
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Is there an actual note to the precision by drive and computer in the article? I do have to reread it
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+ Jumps take a lot of energy. Fusion is typical simply because it's capable of efficiently creating the large amounts of power, but it's not the only possible source. Since the energy is stored in capacitors or some other device capable of fast discharge, anything that can adequately charge the device can be used for jump. It's the capacitor that causes the jump, not the fusion power plant.

Nope, High Guard is clear that the fuel plays a key role. The Black Globe description and Jumping out of combat is unequivocal on it, the capacitors being charged alone is not enough. I'm not saying I agree or like it, but there it is.

+ Jump drives have Jump Coils made of lanthanum.

And other rare earth metals. There's also debate on if the designers knew that rare earth metals are not actually all that rare but were intending for it to be a valuable and limited metal.

+ Once jumps begins, the duration of the flight is known. The duration is dependent upon which jump space is entered, the energy applied, and "other factors".

The first is debatable on the semantics of the statement. The second is clearly not quite so. J1 through J6 access different levels but all have the same random roll for time.

...and I'm gonna have to get back to the rest later, after a rest, burned too much midnight oil last night
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Everything I cited was from the article. I wasn't referring to other mechanics, other sources, or anything else. Simply taking the article at face value, distilling it down to basic tenets presented, and making some other conclusions and observations in the discussion. The article itself offers no mechanics, simply high level procedures and general statements.

Whether what conflicts where I can't say, all I can say is that it was published in 1985 by, in theory, someone who is supposed to know about the design intent behind the process.

So, take that all for what it's worth.
 
Thanks for the source reference!

Though I would say the above was all opinions and interpretations about the 'facts' presented in the article as nothing was explicitly quoted. English is, ironically, a poor technical language as it generally offers lots of ambiguity. Quotes are better than paraphrasing when discussing such 'facts' - though without context, quotes can be misleading as well.
 
I'm sure Marc's opinion is great and all, but I like jump masking and I'm keeping it ;). But then, I discard the 100D definition and use local gravitational field strength instead.

For one thing, if the 100D limit of a body supposedly doesn't interfere when you're arriving, then what happens if you do arrive within the 100D limit? If you can't leave a system from inside it without risking major consequences because the radius of the body interferes (somehow), then you shouldn't be able to arrive inside it without risking major consequences either.
 
It's in the article and mentioned by whartung:
if you try to leave jump space within 100D of an object you are precipitated out of jump space at the 100D border...
 
Thanks for the source reference!

Though I would say the above was all opinions and interpretations about the 'facts' presented in the article as nothing was explicitly quoted. English is, ironically, a poor technical language as it generally offers lots of ambiguity. Quotes are better than paraphrasing when discussing such 'facts' - though without context, quotes can be misleading as well.

People seem to think I have some kind of agenda here...

+ "Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly understood from the standpoint of our own universe."

+ "Entering jump is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of more than certain specific limits bas- ed on size, density, and distance."
+ "When ships are directed to exit jump space within a gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of the field instead."
+ "Activating a jump drive within a gravity well usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to misjump."

+ "Jump takes 168 hours (+/- 10%) to complete. This time is related to the nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy applied."

+ "Over a jump distance of one parsec, the arrival point of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000 kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionally larger). Error in arrival location is also affected by the quality of drive tuning, and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump;..."

+ "The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and direction that it had when it entered jump."
+ "An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two, when computing speeds and directions."

+ "Some individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased nausea is considered a symptom of misjump."
+ "Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant of transition into and out of jump space."

+ "Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally, only a fusion power plant can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power systems (rare and very high-tech)."
+ "Once power is generated, it must be stored until the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit this requirement."

+ "Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship."

+ "Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only be met if the power is fed under computer control."

+ "The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the jump drive are constructed of lanthanum,..."
+ "Other materials have been used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or efficiency to make them practical."

+ "When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency, and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins."
+ "The drive's ... function is to tear a hole in ... space. The hole is ... created and the ship ... falls into the breach... The drive then directs ... energy to sewing up that hole. The act of closing the hole severs the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump."

+ "The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant that jump begins, and depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the system, and on other factors."

+ "Because a ship's jump destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still leaves an impression that the ship has left;..."

Happy? I don't even know why I bother. Are we in Congress? Is there an open mic nearby or something?
 
+ Jumps take a lot of energy. Fusion is typical simply because it's capable of efficiently creating the large amounts of power, but it's not the only possible source. Since the energy is stored in capacitors or some other device capable of fast discharge, anything that can adequately charge the device can be used for jump. It's the capacitor that causes the jump, not the fusion power plant.

Nope, High Guard is clear that the fuel plays a key role. The Black Globe description and Jumping out of combat is unequivocal on it, the capacitors being charged alone is not enough. I'm not saying I agree or like it, but there it is.

I can't find your references, FT. I see nothing in the BG description that says fuel is essential, and the only thing in the Jump breakoff is a statement that you must have enough fuel - presumably meaning you need to charge the capacitors using whatever fuel your power plant uses to generate energy - including coal if you have a steam engine...
 
People seem to think I have some kind of agenda here...

Apologies if I gave that impression, I don't think you do. I thought it was, and I was, just participating in the debate/discussion.

I don't think anyone was operating under any other guise.
 
I can't find your references, FT.

No problem, I had thought it was in both places but seems to only be in one:

High Guard (second edition) pg 43 (under The Black Globe, last paragraph):

"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."
 
No problem:

High Guard (second edition) pg 43 (under The Black Globe, last paragraph):

"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

I also understand this phrase as the fuel is needed, aside from energy, so it has other uses (already discussed in other threads).

The only thing I'd like to have specified in this sentence (or elsewhere) is how much is "enough energy to make a jump". It's energy enough to fill the built-in capacitors in jump drives (0.5% MJn)? I've allways assumed that, but (AFAIK) is not specified in rules.
 
No problem, I had thought it was in both places but seems to only be in one:

High Guard (second edition) pg 43 (under The Black Globe, last paragraph):

"If a ship absorbs enough energy to make a jump, and is supplied with sufficient fuel, it may jump at the end of the turn."

Given Marc's specific references to solar-power (Annic Nova anyone?) and anti-matter to provide the energy for jump, I would reason that this refers to powerplant fuel to keep the ship (including life-support) running for the duration of the Jump.

The article in JTAS #24 came several years after HG, so any differences are resolved in favor of the "most recent" ruling, if you are trying to play "canon" Traveller.

However, that article is also specific for CT... rule changes for later rule-sets are specific for games using that rule-set (like dumping hydrogen to create a protective bubble)... one cannot realistically expect someone to use TNE rules in a CT game... that would mean the game was no longer CT.
 
Its good to be reminded of source documents every now and again. Ta for the OP.

Interesting discrepancy between HG (1981) and MM's article (1985). Could it be explained (well... semi-plausibly) by needing a lot more of the carried hydrogen for cooling than previously considered (by me at least).

Any use of the jump fuel during jump is nullified by the concept of drop tanks. (eg life support or maintaining the jump grid)
 
Has anyone ever tried keeping track of how much energy a BG is absorbing during a battle?

I have and it's a bookkeeping nightmare.

Anyway, a slight change in how we read the jumping with energy stored by a black globe.

Where it says and has sufficient fuel what it means is sufficient power plant fuel to last the week in jump space.

There you go, instant reconciliation of the MWM article and the HG2 rules ;)
 
Yep, but that answer also butchers the need for any ship to carry jump fuel. Just fit a BG and have a mate whack you with sufficient nukes to jump.

At TL15, you will get J6 jumps without the need for 60% fuel. Trade in the Imperium will be revolutionized...
 
People seem to think I have some kind of agenda here...
Nope, well, not I.

Appreciate the quotes, though I wasn't debating your statements - especially as I have never read the source. Others, however, will (as happened). The original article might even contradict itself, leading to really senseless debates.

Without direct quotes, there is nothing immediate to support interpretation - others must rely on their own memories when responding. Typically resulting in more confusion and disagreements - and English (and 'canon' discussions) already support such quite well ;)
 
Yep, but that answer also butchers the need for any ship to carry jump fuel. Just fit a BG and have a mate whack you with sufficient nukes to jump.

At TL15, you will get J6 jumps without the need for 60% fuel. Trade in the Imperium will be revolutionized...
And those nukes cost how much?

Also the BG itself is not common Imperial tech.

And before anyone says 'so just build a solar collector' are they just going to give the energy away for free?

Last time I looked my electricity bills were going up...
 
It's in the article and mentioned by whartung:
if you try to leave jump space within 100D of an object you are precipitated out of jump space at the 100D border...

It's the "blocks line of sight" thing that I keep (maybe that's "jump shadowing"). If your path through jumpspace intersects with a 100D limit of a body, then you're dropped out of jumpspace at the point where it intersects (at the edge of the 100D limit) - not just if you try to exit jumpspace within 100D of a body.
 
It's the "blocks line of sight" thing that I keep (maybe that's "jump shadowing"). If your path through jumpspace intersects with a 100D limit of a body, then you're dropped out of jumpspace at the point where it intersects (at the edge of the 100D limit) - not just if you try to exit jumpspace within 100D of a body.
Jump shadowing is when the destination is inside the jump limit of a larger body -- a world inside its sun's limit or a moon inside its planet's limit. Jump masking is when there's a jump limit blocking the direct line between departure point and destination point.

(And I'm not sure if these terms are canonical; it's the terms I'm trying to promote to distinguish between the two situations).


Hans
 
Jump Masking is the canonical term, but it's been used for both. <sigh>
 
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