Evolution of a Starport

[Mickazoid]

The imagination is the 'killer' part.

 

[ravells]

Micki...here is the top down view,

Ravs

 

[ravells]

Error No 1: wouldn't really have a power plant so near to a runway.

 

[Mickazoid]

I thought that was the observation and control complex anyhoo...

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by ravs:
Error No 1: wouldn't really have a power plant so near to a runway.

Bury the plant (good for the plant's safety, controlled access, and lets ground surface be used for other things). :0)

No, despite my repeated suggestions of underground stuff, I am neither Dwarf nor Troll... at least not intentionally.

 

[Valarian]

Still wouldn't have it so close to a runway

 

[TheEngineer]

Well, this would perhaps lead to a simplification of the map, but as a starport architect I would put powerplant, refineries and similar stuff under ground....

 

[TheEngineer]

Ah, Ottawa was faster

 

[ravells]

Originally posted by mickazoid:
I thought that was the observation and control complex anyhoo...

Great Idea, Micki! It's not a power plant (which is underground and can't be seen) it's an oberervation and control complex!

That was easy!

Ravs

 

[robject]

Ravs, you may not like the rough level of detail with your images, but I think they're great! Noone to my knowledge has done a series/progression like this before, and I find it inspiring.

 

[marvo]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Wasn't there a bit in Bab5 when a whitestar was in a gas giant atmosphere and had to make a jump too? IIRC that was pretty spectacular too.

Originally posted by mickazoid:
Never saw that B5 scene (I wasn't a big B5 watcher) - but I'll google it, find the episode number and hit up one of my B5 geeks friends to show me a copy

Mal and Micki and all B5 fans. I looked this up and here is what I found. In B5 a whitestar never actually jumped out of a gas giant, but there are 3 episodes where something similar, and relevant, happened.

301 Matters of Honor - Sheridan destroys a shadow ship by making it create a jump point inside a jump gate. A jump field within a jump field which causes a massive explosion.

308 Messages from Earth - A whitestar dives into the atmosphere of Jupiter followed by a shadow ship. The whitestar is able to pull out of the dive but the shadow ship cannot and is crushed by the pressure.

420 Endgame - A whitestar jumps into the atmosphere of Mars less than a mile off the surface for a surprise attack. To do this Garibaldi is on the ground and gives exact jump coordinates to the ship.

My take on this would be that jumping out of an atmosphere causes a shock wave due to the inrush of air, but not a lot else. But jumping into an atmosphere you have two masses trying to exist in the same physical space. This is likely to cause more serious damage, explosion, radiation etc. In MTU the transition into/out of jumpspace is almost instantaneous.

 

[Valarian]

There is an episode (308 Messages from Earth?) where Sheridan and Delenn jump from Jupiter's atmosphere as they don't want to engage the Agamemnon

 

[marvo]

I stand corrected I guess I should have watched the episode through. But at this point in the saga B5 gets really addictive and I have to sleep sometime.

Back on the starport issue. What would be the method of grading the starport area? This could potentially be several square miles of land that needs to be graded. Today's methods would probably be to slow for that area unless given a very long time frame. If the ground is not level, that could cause all kinds of interesting problems. (Vision of an untethered Tigress rolling downhill across the suburbs

)

 

[Malenfant]

Yah, I think it was the "Messages from Earth" ep that I was thinking of. Ta!

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by Marvo:

Back on the starport issue. What would be the method of grading the starport area? This could potentially be several square miles of land that needs to be graded. Today's methods would probably be to slow for that area unless given a very long time frame. If the ground is not level, that could cause all kinds of interesting problems. (Vision of an untethered Tigress rolling downhill across the suburbs

)

I suppose TDX and creative/experienced engineering team could prove useful, at least in some circumstances. It might speed up the grading.

I'm sure the developers would scout out the site first hand, meaning that they won't buy the place blind and "make do".

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Ah, Ottawa was faster

One of my friends, an industrial and web designer now headed into teaching, always says to me "You think like an Engineer." I suspect he believes this is some form of predjudicial statement whereas I see it as a complement. :0)

 

[ravells]

What is TDX? Grading, I assume is flattening.

From all I've read about it, the grading/flattening is done by 'earth moving machinery' (whatever that is), I just imagined bulldozers and the like, but ramped up a bit so they could be multi-functional in other roles.

I am tempted to put in hills and valleys as the starport grows if only because I don't like the utter flatness of it and it'll mean that we can get some beautifully vaulting bridges for the monorail and roads (which are coming) to go over.

Ravs

 

[TheEngineer]

Hills and valleys in a starport area ?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by ravs:
What is TDX? Grading, I assume is flattening.

From all I've read about it, the grading/flattening is done by 'earth moving machinery' (whatever that is), I just imagined bulldozers and the like, but ramped up a bit so they could be multi-functional in other roles.

I am tempted to put in hills and valleys as the starport grows if only because I don't like the utter flatness of it and it'll mean that we can get some beautifully vaulting bridges for the monorail and roads (which are coming) to go over.

Ravs

TDX is a high tech explosive that blasts in a flat-plane, and is excellent for clear-cutting on said flat plane. The charges come with an altimeter to be used in the detonation sequence to set the height of the plane, say, to go off at 0.75 meters..the average Sophont of 1.5M is thereby cut in half by the blast.

For reducing hills and obstinate flora, its perfect for hasty knock-out obstacle jobs. Its a tad trendy, being TL-15 though.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I'm liking this project of yours a lot Ravs. Try to ignore my "helpful" comments when they interfere

Case in point...

Originally posted by kaladorn:
But compared to large expanses of ground, maybe not so large. You have to imagine an A or B class port must be huge. An A-class, especially, can *build* these things. So it *must* have sufficient space.

I'd say not myself. Once you get to a class A or B port I expect the bulk of it is done in orbit. No need to build, repair or process the behemoths on the ground with all it's complications when there's all that easier space up there.

If you want a canon cite (I knew I'd seen it somewhere) CT S9 (albeit speaking of Imperial Navy and Scout Bases) offers...

Naval Bases: The berthing area is generally a series of orbit patterns which large naval vessels are placed into when not in need of any sort of major repair. Smaller craft also use
these orbits when not wishing to land as part of their stop. Light repair work involving no structural or integral systems can be performed with the ship either placed in an orbit pattern or berthed at the ground based facility. Surface support of ships is generally limited to vessels displacing 1,000 tons or less. Although larger
ships can sometimes be handled on the ground, they are usually repaired and maintained
in orbit.

and...

Way stations... <are the> equivalent of naval bases... although
they are capable of servicing only the smaller tonnage ships (10,000 tons and
below) due to restrictions on facilities...

Scout bases... are small repair and maintenance
facilities capable of handling ships of 1,000 tons and under.

Fascinating Far Trader! An excellent reference--when covering Naval & Scout Bases...

It seems reasonable that civilian facilities would be if anything smaller than an IN one.

So we have:

Naval Bases able to handle any size ship in orbit but limited to 1,000tons on the ground routinely.

Scout Way Stations able to handle up to 10,000tons (presumably in orbit) due to restrictions on facilities.

Scout Bases able to handle up to 1,000tons (again presumably in orbit).

And we know the IN only has Naval Bases at class A or B starports while IISS Bases can be found at class A through D starports, though more commonly at the lower end.

Au contraire mon frere! IN bases can also be found at C-class Starports as well: check the Imperial naval Depot systems out--quite a few of these are C-class

And then there's a few worlds with them like C686A88-E N too now.. Agreed about the IISS Bases.

I'd tie the size of civilian facilities to the starport class using the above as guidelines. Something like:

Class A starports: Highport and Downport Facilties limited to 10,000tons maximum size.

Class B Starports: Highport and Downport Facilities are limited to 5,000tons.

Class C Starports: Downport Facilities limited to 1,000tons. No Highport.

Class D Starports: Downport Facilities limited to 500tons. No Highport.

Just off the top of my head. I had it worked out similarily at least once before but with more details and a population factor.

All Good points Far Trader, but I figure the size of the port's facilities is directly tied to the Population of the world, and the size berths based on amount of traffic and the largest sized vessel serving the Imperium commercially.

I disagree with the C & D-class Highports assessment on these grounds:

1) Orbital habitats/ in system space ports (F, G & H) have the equivalent of E & D-class ports until they achieve Size F (and have a UWP pop 5) in which they can then support an A, B, or C-class orbital starshipyard. That means all those habitats of Size A-E must have D-class orbital ports of call, right?

2) Planetary tech level and it's population can also dictate whether or not a world can even build an orbital starport. Generally considered one needs a Pop 6, TL8+, with either an A, B, or C-class starport as minimums. This relegates By TL7 & below and population 5 and below to which worlds have only downside ports.

3) Supported by a large mainworld pop, the downside port of call will almost always be a larger facility than the orbital one. Asteroid systems are an exception I'm sure, as well as worlds with 0-2 atmospheres for USL hulled vessels.