Evolution of a Starport

[ravells]

Ah yes the fence was on my 'to do' list. I might put watchtowers at corners otherwise it will be very hard to see at this scale.

The silo irises and sensor array should not be a problem.

Thanks also for the landing pad mesh - perfect, I don't even have to model it!

Ravs

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by ravs:
(b) I watched Space 1999 as a kid but what do eagle pads look like? I don't remember. If you could give me some reference pictures that would be really helpful.

Kaladorn already sent you some meshes but here are some pics that will help with context: (an Eagle is a modular cutter)

Moonbase Alpha with one of the Eagle pads in foreground

View of docking tube extended

Eagle on pad ... ascending/descending

Facility under pad (some sort of accident in progress)

Regards PLST

 

[ravells]

Next stage.

Following Hemdian's suggestions, startown has grown to the east of the starport (It'll need to be rescaled - the buildings look a little small now). Also the space 1999 bays and a new starport terminal.

I've remodelled the multistory - I think it looks better this way; comms equipment is on the roof.

I've moved the power plant / observation refinery and put a shipyard in its place.

I've also added a 747 aircraft on the tarmac to give me an idea about whether I'm scaling this properly. I think we can now say it's a class C starport - it has 48 starship berths.

I'm modelled a simple Scout class starship and plopped a few down (again for scale). The close up of the 1999 pads (sorry that they're floating), I'll fix that on the next effort gives a good idea of the scale of ships they can take using the sky bridges as a measure. Still not all that large, size of a 747 tops.

I've opened up some area to the west to land the big buggers but will have to re-route the monrail.

Also the hydrogen refinery has been moved to the south west corner and there's a big lake there.

 

[far-trader]

Looking very sharp!

That "comms equipment" looks positively threatening in the close up

Any easy way to make it look a little less "big gun turret" looking? Maybe even just cover it with a simple dark hex faced dome?

 

[ravells]

Er...it's a gun turret really! I'll model some radar stuff. I was hoping you wouldn't notice!

Do you think Gerry Anderson made the eagle landing pads out of bottle tops? Very striking similarity!

Ravs

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by ravs:
Er...it's a gun turret really! I'll model some radar stuff. I was hoping you wouldn't notice!

That explains the resemblance then No worries, placeholder forms are fine. I won't argue with that "comms equipment" there. If a gun turret says "I'm comms equiment!" I'll tend to agree, at least until out of range of any further "communication"

Originally posted by ravs:
Do you think Gerry Anderson made the eagle landing pads out of bottle tops? Very striking similarity!

I'd never made that connection to the eagle pads, though now that you point it out it could very well be.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Au contraire mon frere! IN bases can also be found at C-class Starports as well: check the Imperial naval Depot systems out--quite a few of these are C-class

And then there's a few worlds with them like C686A88-E N too now.. Agreed about the IISS Bases.

Interesting, but I'd have to classify them all as mistakes I was only looking at CT system generation rules (maybe it was changed in some version but I can't remember it being different) which are crystal clear on the matter "Navy Base: Do not roll if starport C, D, E, or X."

I can't really imagine a Naval Depot being less than Class B either. No ability to build, no refined fuel, and limited repair facilities (Class C) doesn't strike me as being able to "supply entire fleets, provide construction and repair, and produce new prototypes". I'd say that sounds more like Class A.

In case you missed this part Far Tarder, the project involves bridging all variants/ versions of Traveller's starport, & some things like the A & B-class only early CT rule stand in minority against later versions.

Not everyone remained in CT-rules, and some TL adaptations occurred or were better defined in the predecessor rule editions. The C-class for Naval Bases as a minimum was one of them appearing in MegaTraveller first, repeated in GT, TNE, T4, & T20. Thats 5 versions to 1, so our project includes that as *a needed change*.

Likewise, GT brought this out, refined fuel is a matter of Tech level. After all FT--a fuel purifier for a starship comes in at TL9, and whose to say a C-class+ Port cannot have one hooked up to their raw tanks for selling refined fuel?

Likewise, a lot of A & B as well as C-class ports lie along the J-3/4 routes of the X-web lines, and Tukera LIC's freighters follow them--many are USL no refined fuel purified carrying ships--so those C-class ports along those canon routes have top have it for them to jump out don't they?

Of course maybe it is a case of there being two seperate facilities, but that isn't the implication of the (CT at least) system creation rules. There you roll to determine the type of starport and then see if the Imperium is interested in basing there. And the inference I always made was that the Imperium then relied on the local starport for support, backed up by the old "Imperial Navy... also procures vessels at tech levels 10 through 14".

FT, we aren't *rolling up* new subsectors, & systems but trying to find a way to allow GM & Player alike make sense of the ones already in existence!

It has always seemed to me the Imperial Navy (and presumably IISS) don't operate their own starports (outside of Naval Depots and perhaps Way Stations) but simply use the local starport to center their bases on where they deem them worthy. In peacetime the function of the starport is mostly civilian/trade oriented, with some support of the IN/IISS if there is a base. Preferential support no doubt. And in wartime they become

Umm Far Tarder, From the printed material versions the *Imperial Naval Base has been a spearate facility insystem, thus our team on this project interprets that as another (military only) starport in and of itself, not part of a commercial starport.

I can see your point on this as far as IISS Bases go, but I remain convinced even though they are informal and carry no open rank system, they too would have separate but smaller & equal facilities than those listed--unless the IISS were the sole population of the world itself!

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
I can see your point on this as far as IISS Bases go, but I remain convinced even though they are informal and carry no open rank system, they too would have separate but smaller & equal facilities than those listed--unless the IISS were the sole population of the world itself!

I don't have it in front of me but didn't the Champa starport in one of the early JTAS (#7 ?) have a separate Scout Base facility? Attached but separated by a fence?

Regards PLST

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by ravs:
Do you think Gerry Anderson made the eagle landing pads out of bottle tops? Very striking similarity!

I think the effect is magnified by errors in the mesh. The sides should angle out more and they should be half sunk into the ground. Also, when the elevator is at the top it should be flush with the rest of the pad but the mesh has it raised slightly. (And if I was being picky I'd consider spacing them out a bit more.

)

Regards PLST

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by ravs:
I've moved the power plant / observation refinery and put a shipyard in its place.

I think we can now say it's a class C starport - it has 48 starship berths.

Well if the shipyard is for "reasonable repair facilities" then fair enough, but if they're laying down new hulls then this is a class B starport.

Regardless, I think the startown is really going to mushroom now. You'll want an industrial park dominated by light engineering (spaceship component manufacture, etc). And "Bates Motel" style facilities wont cut it anymore, you'll want a couple of proper hotels. Residents of the startown will want shops and entertainment (probably a colonial-style "downtown" commercial district). They'll also want a hospital, schools, police and fire service. And these will also mean a need for more housing as the startown becomes an entity in its own right with its own economy, not just an add-on to the starport. Transportation (both inside the startown and to the rest of the planet) will need upgrading. (Ever play SimCity?)

Summary: To the startown add a road network, industrial estate, commercial district, larger buildings round the middle, double or triple the size of the suburbs.

Regards PLST

 

[Hemdian]

The pictures look good but any chance of another top-down view so we can see what's what?

Regards PLST

 

[ravells]

Residents of the startown will want shops and entertainment (probably a colonial-style "downtown" commercial district). They'll also want a hospital, schools, police and fire service. And these will also mean a need for more housing as the startown becomes an entity in its own right with its own economy, not just an add-on to the starport. Transportation (both inside the startown and to the rest of the planet) will need upgrading.

Oh, not much then, and I suppose you also want a house with 'Hemedian' modelled on the door?

It's not all that clear from the pictures but startown now has sky-scraper like buildings, but in doing that the scale's gone out of sync, I'm going to have to rescale startown so it's at least the size of the spaceport or bigger. That's going to increase the rendering time by a hellish amount, so startown will remain, essentially a load of cubes plonked in the ground as this is primarily about the starport rather than startown.

Defining Roads will be important, I think I have a cheeky way to uv map a road network and lots of buildings quickly and to make the town / city look a lot more organic than it is at present. I'll have a play and see.

I'll pop up a top down view tonight.

Ravs

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Looking very impressive.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:


Its a tad trendy, being TL-15 though.

boo! hiss! sorry, my GURPS Traveller books, Ground Forces p106 put it at GTL 9 which translates roughly to TTL 9 thru 11, in their eyes.

"Two Dimensional Explosive" is the full name and I think TDX appears in an original JTAS. I've got it in the "Best of JTAS" Vol 1, on p22.

 

[ravells]

Here is the plan view.

Ravs

 

[Gadrin]

very nice. two thumbs up on your efforts.

 

[ravells]

Beanstalk:

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Hemdian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
I can see your point on this as far as IISS Bases go, but I remain convinced even though they are informal and carry no open rank system, they too would have separate but smaller & equal facilities than those listed--unless the IISS were the sole population of the world itself!

I don't have it in front of me but didn't the Champa starport in one of the early JTAS (#7 ?) have a separate Scout Base facility? Attached but separated by a fence?

Regards PLST </font>[/QUOTE]yes, Champa's was, and thus seperate--whether by a fence, 1m, 10m, 1km, or 10km--whatever, its a seperate facility Hemdian.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Gadrin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam Devlin:


Its a tad trendy, being TL-15 though.

boo! hiss! sorry, my GURPS Traveller books, Ground Forces p106 put it at GTL 9 which translates roughly to TTL 9 thru 11, in their eyes.

"Two Dimensional Explosive" is the full name and I think TDX appears in an original JTAS. I've got it in the "Best of JTAS" Vol 1, on p22. </font>[/QUOTE]Alas, CT, MT, TNE, T20 disagree with GT there with ya Gadrin. thats where we try to 'abridge' the various systems--where they all agree no trouble/ where they disgaree, how many stand for & against weighs the issue.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:


Alas, CT, MT, TNE, T20 disagree with GT there with ya Gadrin. thats where we try to 'abridge' the various systems--where they all agree no trouble/ where they disgaree, how many stand for & against weighs the issue.

well, not CT anyway. according to the CT CDrom I just got it shows TDX as available as of TTL 9

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Level Conv. Shaped TDX
5-6 10 - -
7-8 15 60 -
9-10 20 80 10
11-12 25 100 15
13+ 30 120 25 </pre>[/QUOTE]That's Striker Book 3. I don't know about the other incarnations of Traveller.